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  • The Pope

    What are people's feelings on the position?

    I know you're nearly all Protestant, so I expect the feelings to be predominantly negative. But I'm curious as to why.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Fenris View Post
    What are people's feelings on the position?

    I know you're nearly all Protestant, so I expect the feelings to be predominantly negative. But I'm curious as to why.
    Let me put my (admittedly negative) position to you this way.

    How would you feel if a Jew arose, a rabbi, and declared that he had authority from God above to declare that you were not a Jew any longer, but were anathema, and that he could decide which parts of the scripture were actually right and wrong, and could declare with divine authority how to interpret the difficult parts. Then he declared that unless you declared your allegiance to him, you couldn't really be a Jew any more. In fact, your entire relationship to God would have to be through him. This is not simply a position like the High Priest, which was filled by fallible men rendering a service as their fathers had done, but he declared that God made him infallible.

    That's exactly how I feel about the position. No more, no less.
    One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

    Comment


    • #3
      Heh.

      That's pretty bad.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fenris View Post
        Heh.

        That's pretty bad.


        That's what Protestants say, and that's how we consider it... pretty bad. Which is why I always laugh a little when people talk about reconciliation between the Roman Church and the many Protestant sects. Sure, we can be friends, but we can't really assemble together until one or the other declares ourselves to be wrong. And you can pretty much guess from my post how long it would take for me to decide I was wrong...

        Of course, the flip side is that Catholics think that Protestants have no respect for authority.
        One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, being Jewish I can sympathize with the Protestant position. No one rabbi has the authority to act as the Pope does. Legal rulings have to rely on precedent (of course) and when there is serious doubt the majority rules.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fenris View Post
            Well, being Jewish I can sympathize with the Protestant position. No one rabbi has the authority to act as the Pope does. Legal rulings have to rely on precedent (of course) and when there is serious doubt the majority rules.
            Well, *cough*, the other side is that in Protestantism there is no such unity as you describe there. Pretty much every person is left with the final decision in every ruling....
            One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steve M View Post
              Well, *cough*, the other side is that in Protestantism there is no such unity as you describe there. Pretty much every person is left with the final decision in every ruling....
              Hmm. So who decides what is normative?

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              • #8
                Well, of course the main reason I fear and dread the Pope is because he's the Evil Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB7WcGvxQ9w
                Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

                My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steve M View Post
                  Let me put my (admittedly negative) position to you this way.

                  How would you feel if a Jew arose, a rabbi, and declared that he had authority from God above to declare that you were not a Jew any longer, but were anathema, and that he could decide which parts of the scripture were actually right and wrong, and could declare with divine authority how to interpret the difficult parts. Then he declared that unless you declared your allegiance to him, you couldn't really be a Jew any more. In fact, your entire relationship to God would have to be through him. This is not simply a position like the High Priest, which was filled by fallible men rendering a service as their fathers had done, but he declared that God made him infallible.

                  That's exactly how I feel about the position. No more, no less.
                  Isn't that what Jews feel Jesus did? (Obviously Jesus had the right to do so, but seen in that light you can understand the Jewish position.)

                  In which case, isn't Popatine... sorry, the pope, putting himself on a par with Jesus?
                  Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

                  My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by daughter View Post
                    Well, of course the main reason I fear and dread the Pope is because he's the Evil Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB7WcGvxQ9w
                    Aha! I knew there was something about that guy...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by daughter View Post
                      Isn't that what Jews feel Jesus did? (Obviously Jesus had the right to do so, but seen in that light you can understand the Jewish position.)
                      Heh. Interesting observation.

                      You're a very intelligent woman.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by daughter View Post
                        Isn't that what Jews feel Jesus did? (Obviously Jesus had the right to do so, but seen in that light you can understand the Jewish position.)

                        In which case, isn't Popatine... sorry, the pope, putting himself on a par with Jesus?
                        Well, Jesus didn't declare parts of scripture wrong. Nor did he make being Jewish conditional. Other than that, Jesus did a lot of things that Steve is suggesting.
                        Matt 9:13
                        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                        NASU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                          Well, Jesus didn't declare parts of scripture wrong. Nor did he make being Jewish conditional. Other than that, Jesus did a lot of things that Steve is suggesting.
                          A simple matter of authority, of course. I can accept that the Son of God has authority to tell me I cannot find salvation without him.... but I can't really find anyplace where a man was given that authority.
                          One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Steve M View Post
                            A simple matter of authority, of course. I can accept that the Son of God has authority to tell me I cannot find salvation without him.... but I can't really find anyplace where a man was given that authority.
                            Correct. And when Jesus taught, people recognized his authority. They saw in his teaching, power and authority and that was different than the kind of teaching others did.

                            Of course, the idea that the Pope is seen as a mediator between God and man is scary indeed. For only one position ever held that and only one man fulfilled it. Jesus, as high priest.
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                              Correct. And when Jesus taught, people recognized his authority. They saw in his teaching, power and authority and that was different than the kind of teaching others did.
                              Well, to play devil's advocate here, about one billion Catholics do recognize the Pope's authority.

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