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  • Information What is murder?

    I would like to toss out some verses, and have you think about their connection:

    Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.


    Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
    Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.

    Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."


    Luk 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

    If you cannot have compassion and mercy, and forgive others, then you are in effect causing two people to die, your fellow being with whom you bore a grudge, and yourself.


    Shalom,
    Tanja
    Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
    2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
    http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/




  • #2
    Murder is when one human intentionally slays another.
    The avenger of blood is the next of kin to who was murdered.

    I consider that forgiving someone who is angry at his brother is a good thing.

    I consider that forgiving someone who has murdered his brother is not a good thing (if I do I might feel in my heart I have helped him with his decision).

    I consider that it is not a good thing to condemn someone unless I am forced by there hand to do so.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok.

      Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
      I would like to toss out some verses, and have you think about their connection:

      Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.
      REV 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:
      REV 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

      Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
      Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
      Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
      Killing doesn't require anger

      Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
      Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."


      But even if the murderer is forgiven, the pollution of his act is not removed from the earth, unless the murderer is killed.

      NUM 35:31 You shall not take money of him that is guilty of blood, but he shall die forthwith.
      NUM 35:32 The banished and fugitives before the death of the high priest may by no means return into their own cities.
      NUM 35:33 Defile not the land of your habitation, which is stained with the blood of the innocent: neither can it otherwise be expiated, but by his blood that hath shed the blood of another.
      NUM 35:34 And thus shall your possession he cleansed, myself abiding with you. For I am the Lord that dwell among the children of Israel.

      Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
      Luk 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
      MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

      As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?

      Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
      If you cannot have compassion and mercy, and forgive others, then you are in effect causing two people to die, your fellow being with whom you bore a grudge, and yourself.

      Shalom,
      Tanja
      IS 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

      AMOS 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
      Last edited by dan; Jun 5th 2008, 07:16 AM. Reason: content
      JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
      JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

      Comment


      • #4
        Examine yourselves:

        Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

        How was the devil a murderer? He didn't kill Adam and Eve?
        God explained this to me and startled me awake with this one morning.
        He did kill Adam and Eve allright.
        How?
        He caused them to sin, and sin is the transgression of the law, and the wages of sin is death.

        Be careful that you do not cause a brother or sister to stumble!
        And since we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves, that applies to them also.

        Oh how deep the sin is within us.

        Shalom,
        Tanja
        Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
        2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
        If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
        http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



        Comment


        • #5
          When it comes to killing men and murdering men in the Bible, you always have to go to the original manuscript languages, because there are many different Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic words used in the Bible for kill or murder.

          There are 9 different Hebrew words used for KILL in the Old Testament.

          1.nakah- smite, beat, slay: Gen 4:15
          2.harag- kill, slay, murder, destroy: Gen 26:7
          3.muwth- to die, kill, have one executed: Exo 1:16
          4.shachat- to kill, slaughter, sacrifice: Exo 12:21
          5.tabach- butcher, slay, slaughter: Exo 22:1
          6.ratsach- murder, slay: Deu 5:17
          7.zabach- sacrifice, slaughter, kill: Deu 12:21
          8.chalal- slain, pierced, fatally wounded: Jud 20:31
          9.naqaph- to strike off, round off: Isa 29:1

          There are 6 different Greek words used for KILL in the New Testament

          1.phoneuo- murder, slay, kill: Matt 5:21
          2.apokteino- allow to perish, destroy: Matt 10:28
          3.thyo- sacrifice, slaughter: Luke 15:23
          4.anaireo- put out of the way, to take up, abolish: Luke 22:2
          5.diacheirizo- lay hands on, govern, kill with one's own hand: Act 26:21
          6.sphazo- slay, slaughter, put to death by violence: Rev 6:4

          So as you can see, many different words are used, for many different kinds of killing in the Bible.

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear friend,
            thanks for laying all that out!
            Can you elaborate on why you posted all that information?

            Thanks,
            Tanja
            Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
            2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
            If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
            http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
              Dear friend,
              thanks for laying all that out!
              Can you elaborate on why you posted all that information?

              Thanks,
              Tanja
              Because there is a huge difference between killing and murder, and some Christian people don't know this. This is why you must study Biblical language and grammar in the original manuscript languages, so you know what you are talking about when it comes to the Bible. Most Christians have no clue about language, grammar, and context when it comes to their study of scripture, so they never understand it the way God intends them to understand it.

              Comment


              • #8
                My friend,

                I agree there are differences in the words, however what i'm addressing here is murder, plain and simple. To cut someone's life short by killing is not in God's plan and neither is when someone causes another to sin, both are murder.

                Tanja
                Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                  My friend,

                  I agree there are differences in the words, however what i'm addressing here is murder, plain and simple. To cut someone's life short by killing is not in God's plan and neither is when someone causes another to sin, both are murder.

                  Tanja
                  You say that when someone causes another to sin, it is murder. What? Where is that found in the Bible?
                  It is sin, to be sure, but murder is a particular type of sin, different from adultery, theft, and other types of sin.
                  Why would causes another to sin be murder, Biblically?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                    My friend,

                    I agree there are differences in the words, however what i'm addressing here is murder, plain and simple. To cut someone's life short by killing is not in God's plan and neither is when someone causes another to sin, both are murder.

                    Tanja
                    Not according to scripture.

                    Killing in War is not murder. God blesses David when he destroys the enemies of God with war in 2 Samuel 22:38-43.

                    Exodus 15:3- The LORD(Yehovah in the Hebrew) is a man of war; the LORD is his name.

                    In Revelation chapter 19, Christ returns to Earth to make war on all of his enemies, and he kills them all, and the birds pick their bones clean afterward.

                    Killing with the death penalty is not murder.

                    Deuteronomy 19:10-13- says that a murderer is to be put to death.

                    Exodus 21:22- says that a man who harms a child in it's mother's womb must be put to death. This also condones killing in self defense when protecting innocent women and children.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You say that when someone causes another to sin, it is murder. What? Where is that found in the Bible?
                      It is sin, to be sure, but murder is a particular type of sin, different from adultery, theft, and other types of sin.
                      Why would causes another to sin be murder, Biblically?
                      Ok, Sin is the transgression of the law, right?
                      And the wages of sin is death, right?

                      If you cause someone to sin as did the serpent in the Garden Eden, then you are a murder, because you are effectively leading someone into death through sin.

                      This is why Yeshua called the serpent a murderer from the beginning.

                      Did the serpent cause physical death?
                      Isn't spiritual death worse than a physical death?

                      Tanja
                      Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                      2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                      If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                      http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        God blesses David when he destroys the enemies of God with war in 2 Samuel 22:38-43.
                        That's not the same thing: God left those to die because He knew they wouldn't repent and chose Him anyways. Had those people had an unction of repentance in them God would have stayed King David's hand.

                        Same goes for several more of your examples.
                        Killing with the death penalty is not murder.
                        That depends, if someone is not corrigible and unrepentant, then it is not murder.
                        However, if someone is repentant, then that person should not be put to death
                        "Mercy triumphs over judgment."

                        Deuteronomy 19:10-13- says that a murderer is to be put to death.

                        Exodus 21:22- says that a man who harms a child in it's mother's womb must be put to death. This also condones killing in self defense when protecting innocent women and children.
                        There's always the choice of mercy when warranted.

                        Tanja
                        Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                        2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                        If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                        http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                          Did the serpent cause physical death?
                          Isn't spiritual death worse than a physical death?

                          Tanja
                          The serpent caused both. God never created mankind's spirit and body to be rendered apart, and their rendering apart after sin is an unnatural state for the body/soul pairing. We live in a fallen state, and when we die today, the unnatural rendering of body and spirit take place.

                          This is the blessed hope of all Christians, that when Christ returns for us we are resurrected from the grave or alive and caught up to meet him. Our body and soul will be transformed back into it's original un-corruptible and eternal state of the body/soul union. We will have a body just like Christ has.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                            And the wages of sin is death, right?

                            Tanja
                            Ahh, but here's the thing: everyone since Adam chooses to sin without anyone causing them to do so. You can influence people to sin in worse ways, but they already have the death penalty hanging over their head.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                              That's not the same thing: God left those to die because He knew they wouldn't repent and chose Him anyways. Had those people had an unction of repentance in them God would have stayed King David's hand.

                              Same goes for several more of your examples.

                              That depends, if someone is not corrigible and unrepentant, then it is not murder.
                              However, if someone is repentant, then that person should not be put to death
                              "Mercy triumphs over judgment."



                              There's always the choice of mercy when warranted.

                              Tanja
                              You don't make any sense? You say the unrepentant are justified to be killed, but nobody else is? And then you turn right back around and say nobody is to be killed?

                              What kind of liberal hippie stuff is this? It's not from scripture. Scripture tells us that Christ himself is going to kill all of his enemies when he returns. Are you saying that Christ is a murderer for this?

                              Comment

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