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  • Book or Books

    This thread is in no way intended to start a osas no-osas debate. (please don't go there) I just find it a bit refreshing to find others views on my own beliefs. And there are a couple that I seem to share with only a few.

    The first would be that I believe without a shadow of a doubt that there are two books. The first is the Book of Life, which I believe contains our name at birth. And then there is the Lamb's Book of Life which in my mind contains our names once we are born again. This is really influenced by my own conviction of Eternal Security.

    Book of Life
    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Lamb's Book of Life
    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    The second would be two judgements seats. The first of which is the Great White Throne where only the lost are judged.

    Great White Throne
    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    The next would be the Judgement Seat of Christ (Bema Seat) where only the born again are judged. Where as, many believe these two judgements are one and the same. And I would also venture to say that that belief is also influenced by Eternal Security.

    BEMA Seat of Christ
    1st Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


    Those who believe as I do about these two seperate judgements at times do disagree on when this takes place. I personally believe this one on one judgement takes place at death of the believer because of what the Apostle Paul wrote: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    This is quintiscentially an anabaptist/Baptist belief, but I'd like to hear from some of the other brothers and sisters on what they believe.





    1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

  • #2
    Hey Tim,

    First of all, let me say that I agree with you in regard to eternal security.

    Secondly, I'm not sure there is a distinction between the "book of life" and "the Lamb's book of life."

    Let me add a thought for you to comment on. I never thought about this until I just read the verse right now. Do you see at least three books in Revelation 20:12? Let me paste the verse with me inserting two comments . . .
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books [note the plural there - "books", i.e. two or more] were opened: and another book was opened [at least two were already opened and now a third or beyond is opened], which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    The Holy Bible : King James Version.
    1995 (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version.) (Re 20:12). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
    What do you think, Tim?

    Anyway, how does this affect your view of eternal security? I don't see the connection. Either way, I hold the view for other reasons.

    Joe

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The Parson View Post
      The first would be that I believe without a shadow of a doubt that there are two books.
      Actually there are at least three books:


      Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


      Here the books plural are opened meaning at least two, and then another singular book is opened. We don't know how many books the plural refers to...coud be two or two billion billion but there is only one book of life.

      Since the path to life is narrow and the other is broad I believe the books plural are books of sin and evil and contains the names etc of those who will "go to hell" while the one book is of those that shall live.


      1Peter 3:15
      (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting

        I have understood there to be two different books (one is the Lamb's).
        And One of the two being plural, yes "books"

        I've never gave it much thought though, The Lamb's Book of Life, I though to be the one where Christ intercedes/witnesses for us before the Father.

        I wonder, could ""Books" of Life" refer to Before and after the Cross ?
        .
        .
        .
        "Let no man deceive you"

        I also am "man" - this includes myself !

        Comment


        • #5
          Might surprise you (what with me not being OSAS to the degree you are).... I think there are different books too and don't disagree with you on the book of life and lambs book of life. I also think there is a third book... it contains the name of Israelites (my opinion).


          Visit our new website
          ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

          A.W. Tozer said,
          "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

          GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

          Comment


          • #6
            I believe there are two books, one for judgment by works, and one for judgment by grace. But only One judgment. In the framework of our personal existence each one of us is made responsible for a part of the kingdom of God, by Christ.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would reckon I needed to be more specific and spent more time on my post. I meant there are two books of life. But what I see so far ya'll, is fascinating.

              Originally posted by TrustGzus
              Anyway, how does this affect your view of eternal security? I don't see the connection. Either way, I hold the view for other reasons.
              My view of eternal security is effected in many ways through out the scriptures Joe, not just here. As for how, I don't see where anyones name is ever blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, just the book of life.

              And ProPet mentioned that one of the many books may contain Isrealites. Now that could speak volumes and I wish you would expound there a bit more.
              Originally posted by ProjectPeter
              a third book... it contains the name of Israelites (my opinion).
              Originally posted by IamBill
              I wonder, could ""Books" of Life" refer to Before and after the Cross ?
              That's what I thought ProPet might be talking about Bill.
              Originally posted by Teke
              I believe there are two books, one for judgment by works, and one for judgment by grace. But only One judgment. In the framework of our personal existence each one of us is made responsible for a part of the kingdom of God, by Christ.
              That's interesting Teke. What scripture caused you to believe that?

              1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah... that is pretty much my thinking. Before and after the cross.


                Visit our new website
                ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                A.W. Tozer said,
                "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                Comment


                • #9
                  great post parson,

                  i have not gave this much thought .
                  i always just thought ok its one book for those with the spirit and one for those without.

                  before your post i was pondering this scripture

                  1st Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

                  . so its cool to see this thread pop up. hopefully we can all help eachother grow in understanding

                  i always try to be carefull with this stuff -- much like revelations. because its always in the back of my mind that im already squandering what i was given and shouldnt i be more concerned with that than anything like this.

                  but that being said knowing the truth of things is always good so im curious to see where this thread goes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                    ... it contains the name of Israelites (my opinion).
                    National Israelites, or spiritual Israelites?
                    θεοφιλε

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fewarechosen View Post
                      great post parson,

                      i have not gave this much thought .
                      i always just thought ok its one book for those with the spirit and one for those without.

                      before your post i was pondering this scripture

                      1st Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

                      . so its cool to see this thread pop up. hopefully we can all help eachother grow in understanding

                      i always try to be carefull with this stuff -- much like revelations. because its always in the back of my mind that im already squandering what i was given and shouldnt i be more concerned with that than anything like this.

                      but that being said knowing the truth of things is always good so im curious to see where this thread goes
                      One of the biggest goofs any of us can make is to say to ourselves; "My understanding of the truth in the Word is the only correct one". I find that at the ripe old age of 50, I'm still learning daily in the Word. And the one truth I have learned above all is "Keep It Simple Silly". When eating the strong meat of the scriptures we sometimes try to use a chainsaw and a pitchfork to learn instead of a knife and fork. And then we try to cram many precepts down our throat instead of taking them one bite at a time so we can digest them.

                      The same can be said with the precepts of this OP. God said: Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord:........., What better way to test those things I learned without reasoning them out with the help of the brethren?

                      1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Parson View Post
                        That's interesting Teke. What scripture caused you to believe that?
                        I'll give a short version from my commentary.
                        "The books of judgment (Dan. 7:10) contain a record of men's own deeds' their own works will judge them (Ps. 62:12, Jer. 17:10). This judging of believers' works is a common NT theme (Matt. 16:27, Rom. 2:6, 2 Cor. 5:10, 1 Pet. 1:17)
                        In contrast the book of life contains the names of all who are saved by grace (Ex. 32:32, Is. 4:3, Dan. 12:1,2) God's mercy is far greater than human works, good or bad. "

                        This is why we want to give a good account before the dread judgment seat of Christ.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Parson View Post

                          Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

                          I also agree with the belief of seperate judgements for the "living" (those who have eternal life) and the "dead" (those that do not have eternal life). This being said, I wonder if the books that are opened are not the Old Test laws. This would be in my opinion what would be used to judge those that are not trusting in our Lord Jesus.

                          There works would be weighed agains the OT Laws and there would be no mediator for them. When they are shown that they have broken the law, the righteous judge will check the "book of life" to see if their debt has been paid yet. If their name is not found, their wages of sin are now due.

                          This is just the way I view this coming Judgement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                            I also agree with the belief of seperate judgements for the "living" (those who have eternal life) and the "dead" (those that do not have eternal life). This being said, I wonder if the books that are opened are not the Old Test laws. This would be in my opinion what would be used to judge those that are not trusting in our Lord Jesus.

                            There works would be weighed agains the OT Laws and there would be no mediator for them. When they are shown that they have broken the law, the righteous judge will check the "book of life" to see if their debt has been paid yet. If their name is not found, their wages of sin are now due.

                            This is just the way I view this coming Judgement.
                            I remember in court (I'm a court liason), Judge Watson opening the law books before he passed judgement and read from them to the accused. At that moment I could picture the Lord Himself with the books reading aloud the precious Law of God. What a chilling picture that was.

                            1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Parson View Post
                              I remember in court (I'm a court liason), Judge Watson opening the law books before he passed judgement and read from them to the accused. At that moment I could picture the Lord Himself with the books reading aloud the precious Law of God. What a chilling picture that was.
                              just your short desciption made the hair stand up on my back

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