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my take on the unforgivable sin

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  • my take on the unforgivable sin

    I've heard a wide array of thoughts concerning what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is. Most all acknowledge the basic definition as Mark describes in 3:30, as declaring the Spirit to be an unclean spirit. From there people reach all sorts of conclusions about how this sin can take shape in the lives of individuals. However, I do not believe that this sin can only be committed by one individual, nor do I think Jesus means that those who commit this sin are automatically doomed to hell. Turn to Matt. 12.

    It is in v.24 that we read of the Pharisees calling the Holy Spirit "Beelzebub", and they do so in context to v.18, when Matthew quotes Isaiah 42:1-4 as speaking of how God will put His Spirit upon Jesus. When they speak of the Spirit as the ruler of demons, Jesus speaks to them in parables, and then He explains the meanings of those parables. Perhaps it'd be best to move from the end back towards the beginning.

    In v.43-45, in parable form, Jesus describes a man being filled with unclean spirits, and interprets the seven-fold demonized man as "this wicked generation". Within that parable, the man is called a "house" by the demon. In v.33 Jesus speaks in a parable of a tree, known by the fruit it produces. There is not a good tree and a bad tree - there is only one tree, and the tree speaks of the Holy Spirit. To "make the tree good", then, is to "speak good of the Spirit", and to "make the tree bad" is to "speak against the Holy Spirit". The man, then, of v.35 is, I believe, speaking of a generation as well, as evidenced by Jesus' reply to their "words", saying twice that their generation would be condemned (v.41-42).

    Now back to the beginning, to the parable of the divided kingdom, city, or house. This too is parable language to describe their generation (cp. v.44's "house"). The multitudes were on the verge of proclaiming Jesus to be the Son of David, the King of the kingdom of Israel, but the Pharisees, their leaders, declared Him to be demon-possessed. They were a divided generation, and they were divided over His identity - an identity founded upon the spirit within Him. Jesus has been casting devils out of those in that generation (v.22); if it was by Satan that He casted Satan out of them, then Jesus was not King. But if He was casting Satan out by the Holy Spirit, then He truly was Israel's rightful King (v.28). Satan's house was that generation (cp. v.43-45), and Jesus was casting him out and plundering his house of souls! (This is where I got my sign-on name from.)

    This has implications on the unforgivable sin - that it is committed by a whole generation of those who do not do the will of the Father (cp. v.50). In other words, it is a corporate sin. Which, of course, has further implications on this sin - namely, that it is not a "dooming to hell". Rather, as we see in v.41-42, it must be unforgivable in the sense that "destruction will come upon their generation", as Nineveh and Ethiopia were forgiven of due to their leaders' recognition of the Spirit of God as Holy. In Jesus' day, that generation was at risk of facing God's judgment, which, because their leaders considered Caesar as their only king, that judgment was manifested when Rome sieged Jerusalem and took down their temple in 70 AD.

    What are your guys' thoughts? Thanks. - astrongerthanhe (Luke 11:22)
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  • #2
    Originally posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    However, I do not believe that this sin can only be committed by one individual, nor do I think Jesus means that those who commit this sin are automatically doomed to hell. Turn to Matt. 12.
    Hmmm... interesting point.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is anyone completely against my interpretation of the unforgivable sin? Or does this make much more sense to you than any other thing you've heard concerning this sin? I'd like some feedback. To sum it up, I'm saying that it is unforgivable in the sense that God will not relent from judging their city, and not in the sense that if you've ever said such a thing of the Holy Spirit that you are automatically destined to hell without the ability to repent. I'm saying this because this sin seems to be a sin committed corporately, and not by any one individual.

      Nineveh heard the prophet, recognized the Spirit by which Jonah spoke as Holy, and repented. Due to this, God relented from destroying their city. The queen of the south came to hear Solomon's wisdom, who was the son of David filled with the Spirit of wisdom. But this generation denied that Jesus was the Son of David, filled with that same Spirit, and, indeed, was even greater than Solomon. Though Jesus and His disciples were going all throughout Israel, preaching the kingdom of God with such power that the principalities were being cast down like lightning, and sweeping the house clean, if that generation did not accept the Spirit by which they spoke as Holy, their city would be demonized seven times worse than before, and so be destroyed by God. This came to pass when God clothed Himself with the Roman armies and left not one temple stone standing upon another.

      I would really appreciate your comments. Thanks guys. - astro
      analyze. synthesize. repeat.

      *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Astro,
        I'm half-way on board with that.
        I agree that it's not about a "one time" thing... or even several times.... It's much more than that.
        I see this as the WILLFUL, CONTINUOUS rejection of the Holy Spirit. Never accepting his calling out to us, but rather, remaining in "the world & the worldly life". It's about a person's heart, & whether or not the Spirit is within.

        I also believe that this is an individual choice, as well as a "corporate" choice, and an individual person CAN commit the unpardonable sin.

        Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
        _______________________________________________
        There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
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        • #5
          Blaspheming the Holy Ghost .. is attributing the work of the Holy Ghost.. His Power... to the work of satan or devils....

          very simple.... when looking at the Scriputure Jesus rebuked those who accused Him of casting out devils by the prince of devils...

          and He goes onto His teaching about a kingdom being divided .. that kingdom has an end and will fall.. this referring to the kingdom of darkness and satan's .. and the accusation that Jesus Himself cast out devils by the prince of the devils...

          but He didn't He cast them out by the Prince of devils and even the devils obeyed Him because of the Power of the Holy Ghost.. and it was the Power of the Holy Ghost that He did these things... and even the devils recognized that He was Truly Indeed the Holy One of Isreal.. they recognized Him before any of the religous scholars and elite did.. can you believe that?? instead these accused Him of having an 'unclean spirit'..... when He cast out devils...

          Blaspheming the Holy Ghost.. will NEVER be forgiven.. that person is in danger of Eternal Damnation... Jesus Himself said it...

          I don't believe its what many try to decipher theologically.. coming out with this long drawn out reason of what Blasphemeing the Holy Ghost is...

          it is what It is.. Attributing the Work and Power of the Holy Ghost to the work and power of satan... thats what it is.. nothing more nothing less...

          now I pose this question to you...

          Even the devils recognized who Jesus the Christ was.. before the religious elite did...

          now did the religious elite really 'know' who Jesus was... but because of pride and envy didn't want to acknowledge Him... because of the hardness of their hearts? did they really 'know' yet because of their deaf ears and hard hearts and blind eyes.. just didn't acknowledge Him?


          Paul states that prior to his conversion on the Damascus Road.. he was a persecutor, injurious, and a blasphmemer...

          but Paul states that he obtained mercy....

          because he did it in 'ignorance'....

          God forgave Him of his blasphmey... this done because Paul was a 'chosen vessel'... as are all His Children...

          can one blasphmeme and yet do it in igrnorance? doing because 'everybody' else is... following the crowd.. like with the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day...
          Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
          ------------------------------------------------
          Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
          ------------------------------------------------
          The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
          Jeremiah 31:3

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Astro!

            This certainly is worthy of time to ponder and pray about.

            This may be something or nothing, but I have read this a couple of times now, and then I was led to read Hebrews 3 and 4. Especially the "And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope"

            It seems to me a corporate responsibility, to hold fast and to "exhort one another every day"

            Heb 3:12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
            Heb 3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
            Heb 3:14 For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

            Heb 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

            If we fail to hold fast corporately, then we may have our house plundered

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by markdrums View Post
              Hey Astro,
              I'm half-way on board with that.
              I agree that it's not about a "one time" thing... or even several times.... It's much more than that.
              I see this as the WILLFUL, CONTINUOUS rejection of the Holy Spirit. Never accepting his calling out to us, but rather, remaining in "the world & the worldly life". It's about a person's heart, & whether or not the Spirit is within.

              I also believe that this is an individual choice, as well as a "corporate" choice, and an individual person CAN commit the unpardonable sin.
              So you would at least agree with me that blaspheming the Spirit once does not condemn you to hell with no chance or ability to repent. That's good. But if an individual can commit this sin, do they ever reach that state where they are unable to be forgiven? I just have a really hard time with that. I believe that God does not show forgiveness to those already in hell, but on this side of eternity He sends His sunlight and rain and even gives breath to the righteous and the unrighteous, all that we might praise Him. Yes, God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but not from worshiping Him - He hardened his heart from allowing the Hebrews to worship God in the wilderness. Big difference. Anyway. Thanks for replying.
              analyze. synthesize. repeat.

              *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
                It seems to me a corporate responsibility, to hold fast and to "exhort one another every day"
                Good stuff. I definitely think you're right.
                analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
                  Blaspheming the Holy Ghost .. is attributing the work of the Holy Ghost.. His Power... to the work of satan or devils....

                  very simple.... when looking at the Scriputure Jesus rebuked those who accused Him of casting out devils by the prince of devils...

                  and He goes onto His teaching about a kingdom being divided .. that kingdom has an end and will fall.. this referring to the kingdom of darkness and satan's .. and the accusation that Jesus Himself cast out devils by the prince of the devils...

                  but He didn't He cast them out by the Prince of devils and even the devils obeyed Him because of the Power of the Holy Ghost.. and it was the Power of the Holy Ghost that He did these things... and even the devils recognized that He was Truly Indeed the Holy One of Isreal.. they recognized Him before any of the religous scholars and elite did.. can you believe that?? instead these accused Him of having an 'unclean spirit'..... when He cast out devils...

                  Blaspheming the Holy Ghost.. will NEVER be forgiven.. that person is in danger of Eternal Damnation... Jesus Himself said it...

                  I don't believe its what many try to decipher theologically.. coming out with this long drawn out reason of what Blasphemeing the Holy Ghost is...

                  it is what It is.. Attributing the Work and Power of the Holy Ghost to the work and power of satan... thats what it is.. nothing more nothing less...

                  now I pose this question to you...

                  Even the devils recognized who Jesus the Christ was.. before the religious elite did...

                  now did the religious elite really 'know' who Jesus was... but because of pride and envy didn't want to acknowledge Him... because of the hardness of their hearts? did they really 'know' yet because of their deaf ears and hard hearts and blind eyes.. just didn't acknowledge Him?


                  Paul states that prior to his conversion on the Damascus Road.. he was a persecutor, injurious, and a blasphmemer...

                  but Paul states that he obtained mercy....

                  because he did it in 'ignorance'....

                  God forgave Him of his blasphmey... this done because Paul was a 'chosen vessel'... as are all His Children...

                  can one blasphmeme and yet do it in igrnorance? doing because 'everybody' else is... following the crowd.. like with the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day...
                  I believe this is exactly what it is. I've been told you cannot commit this sin of blasphemy today since the Lord Jesus is not here doing these deeds in bodily form as He was then. But I kind of question that considering He is here, maybe not in bodily form but still He is here. And would that be the same situation?
                  Most of us believe He is still performing miracles etc but this is usually through prayer etc and not from His bodily presense?
                  I also believe the "unforgivable" sin is by time of death simply having never by faith being saved by the Lord. These people have resisted the Holy Spirit to the very end.
                  I get the feeling people think just saying one inappropriate word (though certainly that is unwise to do),about the Holy Spirit condemns them, I'm not so sure that is the meaning.
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    asstrongerthanhe,

                    I like your post, because you are doing something that few do when trying to interpret scripture - looking at it in context. However, as much as I see most of what you are saying - it makes sense - I have a grammatical issue with this position:

                    In vs. 32 we read:

                    Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.

                    The words in bold above in the Greek are singular (ὃς ἐὰν or ὃς ὰν). I wondered if they were perhaps plural, which would lend themselves to the corporate idea, but they're not. (And I agree that Jesus is addressing the Pharisees as a group.) Also, the verbs underlined are both singular (3rd person Aorist singular - εἴπῃ).

                    The idea is of "anyone who speaks [singular] a word against the Son of Man... the Holy Spirit..."

                    But I like how you're thinking. Keep looking for things in their natural context, and asking good questions. I was hoping that your approach was correct, but I have my doubts. This doesn't shoot down the corporate idea, but you'll need to deal with it.

                    Take care,

                    BD
                    3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

                    BadDog!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BadDog View Post
                      asstrongerthanhe,

                      I like your post, because you are doing something that few do when trying to interpret scripture - looking at it in context. However, as much as I see most of what you are saying - it makes sense - I have a grammatical issue with this position:

                      In vs. 32 we read:

                      Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.

                      The words in bold above in the Greek are singular (ὃς ἐὰν or ὃς ὰν). I wondered if they were perhaps plural, which would lend themselves to the corporate idea, but they're not. (And I agree that Jesus is addressing the Pharisees as a group.) Also, the verbs underlined are both singular (3rd person Aorist singular - εἴπῃ).

                      The idea is of "anyone who speaks [singular] a word against the Son of Man... the Holy Spirit..."

                      But I like how you're thinking. Keep looking for things in their natural context, and asking good questions. I was hoping that your approach was correct, but I have my doubts. This doesn't shoot down the corporate idea, but you'll need to deal with it.

                      Take care,

                      BD
                      Thank you for pointing this out to me! It looks like I have some 'splainin' to do!
                      analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                      *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Is it possible that it is not possible for us to blaspheme the Holy Spirit because we are not capable of understanding what it means to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          my take on the unforgivable sin

                          To say that which you know is of God to be evil.

                          This is come by progression of rejecting the truth and works of the Holy Spirit which you are surly persuaded of to be such. You eventually come to the point of rejecting as the work of the devil.

                          The pharisee's knew that Jesus was the Messiah, but they hated who He (the Messiah) came as, namely, Jesus.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, I'll be the one to disagree on this end that blaspheme of the Spirit is a corporate sin. It is an individual sin that unbelievers must avoid (i.e. turning to Jesus) and believers must avoid (sustained, deliberate sin and rebellion puts them in danger of this.) Jesus warned about falling away in Matthew 24:10. Also Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-30 says some pretty scary things related to deliberate sin and rebellion. Meanwhile, Paul warned about falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 and 1 Timothy 4:1-2; describing the conscience being seared as if by a hot iron. This should put the fear of the LORD in us related to avoiding deliberate sin and rebellion.

                            There is also the warning against taking the future Mark of the Beast in Revelation 14:9-12.

                            Some biblical examples of those who clearly had faith, but "fell away" from the faith: 1.) Balaam- was a prophet in Israel, yet he betrayed the Jewish people into the hands of the Moabites by leading them into great sin. He is an example of what not to do in 2 Peter 2:13-16. Judas was another one who believed to a degree (he was one of the 12 implying that he cast out demons, healed the sick etc. etc.), yet his greed eventually led to John 17:12 as being "doomed to destruction".


                            By the way, if anyone reading this thread is afraid they may have done it:

                            If you had actually blasphemed the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't be the least bit concerned.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why wouldn't I be concerned?

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