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  • Discussion Why?

    Why do you believe the bible (any version) to be truth and fact? I am truly curious how anyone with a brain and common sense can believe in anything in the bible.

  • #2
    Hmmm. That kinda implies that anyone who DOES believe the Bible do not have a brain or common sense.Doesn't sound to me like you are seeking Christ at all, as indicated.How do you hope to find Christ if you reject Him and His Word?


    • #3
      Originally posted by Avaela View Post
      Why do you believe the bible (any version) to be truth and fact? I am truly curious how anyone with a brain and common sense can believe in anything in the bible.
      If your exploring your spirituality how will common sense help you?
      When revelation came to me I had never read the bible. It took many years to understand the bible. It was never about believing the bible but believing God.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Avaela View Post
        Why do you believe the bible (any version) to be truth and fact? I am truly curious how anyone with a brain and common sense can believe in anything in the bible.
        This is a letter from the Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. It is a correspondence between a demon and his demonic nephew. The "Enemy" is God. I think the last paragraph is appropriate to this question, as the truth is now commonly dismissed when it comes in the format of ancient writings. The intellectuals of our time cannot see the wisdom of the Bible because they do not read it as it should be read.


        You seem to be doing very little good at present. The use of his "love" to distract his mind from the Enemy is, of course, obvious, but you reveal what poor use you are making of it when you say that the whole question of distraction and the wandering mind has now become one of the chief subjects of his prayers. That means you have largely failed. When this, or any other distraction, crosses his mind you ought to encourage him to thrust it away by sheer will power and to try to continue the normal prayer as if nothing had happened; once he accepts the distraction as his present problem and lays that before the Enemy and makes it the main theme of his prayers and his endeavours, then, so far from doing good, you have done harm. Anything, even a sin, which has the total effect of moving him close up to the Enemy, makes against us in the long run.

        A promising line is the following. Now that he is in love, a new idea of earthly happiness has arisen in his mind: and hence a new urgency in his purely petitionary prayers—about this war and other such matters. Now is the time for raising intellectual difficulties about prayer of that sort. False spirituality is always to be encouraged. On the seemingly pious ground that "praise and communion with God is the true prayer", humans can often be lured into direct disobedience to the Enemy who (in His usual flat, commonplace, uninteresting way) has definitely told them to pray for their daily bread and the recovery of their sick. You will, of course, conceal from him the fact that the prayer for daily bread, interpreted in a "spiritual sense", is really just as crudely petitionary as it is in any other sense.

        But since your patient has contracted the terrible habit of obedience, he will probably continue such "crude" prayers whatever you do. But you can worry him with the haunting suspicion that the practice is absurd and can have no objective result. Don't forget to use the "heads I win, tails you lose" argument. If the thing he prays for doesn't happen, then that is one more proof that petitionary prayers don't work; if it does happen, he will, of course, be able to see some of the physical causes which led up to it, and "therefore it would have happened anyway", and thus a granted prayer becomes just as good a proof as a denied one that prayers are ineffective.

        You, being a spirit, will find it difficult to understand how he gets into this confusion. But you must remember that he takes Time for an ultimate reality. He supposes that the Enemy, like himself, sees some things as present, remembers others as past, and anticipates others as future; or even if he believes that the Enemy does not see things that way, yet, in his heart of hearts, he regards this as a peculiarity of the Enemy's mode of perception—he doesn't really think (though he would say he did) that things as the Enemy sees them are things as they are! If you tried to explain to him that men's prayers today are one of the innumerable coordinates with which the Enemy harmonises the weather of tomorrow, he would reply that then the Enemy always knew men were going to make those prayers and, if so, they did not pray freely but were predestined to do so. And he would add that the weather on a given day can be traced back through its causes to the original creation of matter itself—so that the whole thing, both on the human and on the material side, is given "from the word go". What he ought to say, of course, is obvious to us; that the problem of adapting the particular weather to the particular prayers is merely the appearance, at two points in his temporal mode of perception, of the total problem of adapting the whole spiritual universe to the whole corporeal universe; that creation in its entirety operates at every point of space and time, or rather that their kind of consciousness forces them to encounter the whole, self-consistent creative act as a series of successive events. Why that creative act leaves room for their free will is the problem of problems, the secret behind the Enemy's nonsense about "Love". How it does so is no problem at all; for the Enemy does not foresee the humans making their free contributions in a future, but sees them doing so in His unbounded Now. And obviously to watch a man doing something is not to make him do it.

        It may be replied that some meddlesome human writers, notably Boethius, have let this secret out. But in the intellectual climate which we have at last succeeded in producing throughout Western Europe, you needn't bother about that. Only the learned read old books and we have now so dealt with the learned that they are of all men the least likely to acquire wisdom by doing so. We have done this by inculcating The Historical Point of View. The Historical Point of View, put briefly, means that when a learned man is presented with any statement in an ancient author, the one question he never asks is whether it is true. He asks who influenced the ancient writer, and how far the statement is consistent with what he said in other books, and what phase in the writer's development, or in the general history of thought, it illustrates, and how it affected later writers, and how often it has been misunderstood (specially by the learned man's own colleagues) and what the general course of criticism on it has been for the last ten years, and what is the "present state of the question". To regard the ancient writer as a possible source of knowledge—to anticipate that what he said could possibly modify your thoughts or your behaviour—this would be rejected as unutterably simple-minded. And since we cannot deceive the whole human race all the time, it is most important thus to cut every generation off from all others; for where learning makes a free commerce between the ages there is always the danger that the characteristic errors of one may be corrected by the characteristic truths of another. But thanks be to our Father and the Historical Point of View, great scholars are now as little nourished by the past as the most ignorant mechanic who holds that "history is bunk",

        Your affectionate uncle

        Rest of the Screwtape Letters (if anyone does not have a hard copy):

        It's an amazing series that follows the story of a nameless man and his "tempter".
        "For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless." Psalms 84:11

        Patriot of GOD's Kingdom


        • #5
          I see your first post has already been deleted. Here is my response to it.

          I am curious as to why this is your first post? Did you find it funny? I suppose it is that a man who has such a name is also guilty of such a sin. But it might help you to know that there are false gods in the world just as there are men who commit crimes. None of which takes anything away from the true God or from the honor due good men who serve Him.

          If you are seeking Christ, then you have come to the right place because there are many here who know Him. And the way we came to that knowledge was by believing the words He spoke which faithful men who knew Him recorded for us. And by following what those words instruct us to do which is to call upon Him, we have discovered that He is faithful to answer our prayers. That is also why we believe the bible is the word of God, because we have found the God who can be trusted to keep those words of promise which He gave to faithful men who listened and obeyed them.

          I hope this will help to set you on the right path in your search for Christ. But I have to tell you that Fox News is not likely to lead you there. So before you continue to mock the word of God, you might want to actually see what it has to say, because your salvation is what you need to find. And the God who saves the men He has created, has been very clear on how He has brought salvation to men in the person of Jesus Christ. This is the subject of the bible, and I know of no other writings which in their very words contain this hope and the power to change men's lives from one of unbelief to saving faith.

          If that is in fact your true pursuit here.

          Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
          And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
          Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
          Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon


          • #6
            Post has been moved to Christians Answer forum.
            Matt 9:13
            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


            • #7
              Originally posted by Avaela View Post
              Why do you believe the bible (any version) to be truth and fact? I am truly curious how anyone with a brain and common sense can believe in anything in the bible.
              Because it changed me from within, and it changed my life. The words in that bible imparted life to my soul and I am a new creation.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Avaela View Post
                Why do you believe the bible (any version) to be truth and fact? I am truly curious how anyone with a brain and common sense can believe in anything in the bible.
                The smugness and ad hominem attack is not appreciated. If you could refrain from these in the future we would be all the more grateful--it is not conducive to any constructive and serious discussion.

                Let me ask you a question; do you have any legitimate reason for rejecting the Bible? I believe I could talk quite extensively about my reasons for accepting scripture, but that this would be in vain if I never hit upon your reasons for rejecting scripture. It does me no good to talk about the prophecies of Daniel and Isaiah if you reject the Bible because of Genesis one and two. It does me no good to talk about the proofs for Christs resurrection if you reject the Bible because of Noah's Flood and Jonah's being eaten by a whale.

                Rather, instead of starting from where we are, why not start from where you are?