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  • Need Advice: Dealing with pasts

    Ladies,

    I'm having a hard time with something. Instead of beating around the bush...here it is. My husband was in a fraternity in college. He was president, vice-president and marshall (which means he led the initiation rights). I know that fraternities are big on brotherhood and secrecy, and I knew he'd been in one and president of it.

    However, the more I find out about sororities and fraternities (with their rituals, etc.) the more unease I feel and the more I wish he would just confirm to me that it was not some cult-ish experience that teetered on satanic involvement (many of those rituals have the chants and robes and such).

    But, he pledged to secrecy when he was initiated, and will not divulge any details. To be honest, a part of me is hurt by it because I would tell him absolutely anything he asked and I don't withhold information from him. There's this area, this little closet of his life that I can't enter, though.

    I'm not sure if it's just my curious nature and desire to understand, the desire to better get where he comes from and what he went through in life that helped create part of who he is today or if it's just the fact that he refuses to give me any details at all beyond what is open for common knowledge outside his fraternity.

    I guess I just need help with ideas on either how to get past this issue or what to do as a result of it. I don't want to guilt him into telling me just to appease his nagging wife...the last thing I want to be is a nag. It just eats me up inside.

    I just don't understand the greek organizations. I refused to join a sorority in college because I didn't want to be a party scene. Now I feel like since I wasn't a part of this elite group I'll never be able to gain access to what was 3+ years of his life and work.

    Can anyone help assuage the fears that the sorority/fraternal organizations have shady rituals or dealings? Am I just being too nosy and need to just drop the subject? Anyone?
    "People aren't confused by the gospel...
    They're confused by us.
    Jesus is the only way to God,
    But we are not the only way to Jesus.
    This word world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie,
    My denomination or my translation of the Bible.
    They just need Jesus...
    Jesus is going to save the world,
    But, maybe, the best thing we can do
    Is just get out of the way."

    ~"What This World Needs"~
    ~Casting Crowns ~

    Tradition doesn't save you, Christ does.
    Don't strap yourself to the Gospel.

  • #2
    Well, LadyinWaiting, some frat houses do have rather "shady" initiation rituals and some can border on satanic, such as messing with Oiji boards, etc. My main thing would, does he regret being in this fraternity? Being a Christian does he regret if he ever humiliated or played with fire, not literally but figuratively. I'm sure many of us have messed with or been invovled in the occult, or been near occultic things in the past. Your husband should no longer be proud or associate himself with any of this if he is a real Christian striving for Christ.

    As for getting him to tell you, well, that can be tricky. Sometimes you can gather bits and pieces over time to know the whole story. Spouses should be honest with one another, that is true, but you might give him time to soften up to the idea about actually revealing everything that happened. Even though he was sworn to secrecy, he's no longer involved in this fraternity, and if it's just between spouses, I believe he should be more willing to be honest with you.
    We serve God by serving others. The world defines greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige, and position. If you can demand service from others, you've arrived. In our self-serving culture with its me-first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept. Rick Warren
    [sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Honestly, I'd just let it go. It's in the past, so why waste your time and energy fretting over it?
      My Blog

      Comment


      • #4
        That's the thing. It's technically not in the past since once you're in, you're in for life. There is no "I graduated, I'm done" it's a matter of a life-long membership. They have an alumni association, some of his closest friends were in it, he's helped out as he can with them...

        So, it's not a total "in the past" even though he's not actively in the frat as a "brother."
        "People aren't confused by the gospel...
        They're confused by us.
        Jesus is the only way to God,
        But we are not the only way to Jesus.
        This word world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie,
        My denomination or my translation of the Bible.
        They just need Jesus...
        Jesus is going to save the world,
        But, maybe, the best thing we can do
        Is just get out of the way."

        ~"What This World Needs"~
        ~Casting Crowns ~

        Tradition doesn't save you, Christ does.
        Don't strap yourself to the Gospel.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm thinking of Sampson and Deliliah. Don't be a Delialiah.

          Sometimes we women want to know "things" just so we know them. Men aren't like that. They don't always feel the need to know everything about you and though you would be willing to tell them..they probably wouldn't even ask.

          Let it go. Sounds like the movie "the Skulls" and it isn't likely your husband is that involved in that deep. There was just another movie on the lifetime channel about a girls fraternity. It's for entertainment and I guess to maybe wonder what our spouses are up too.
          .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

          ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
          .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a



          Comment


          • #6
            so where are his loyalties??? to some fraternity? or to his wife???

            When our husband hold secrets from us from the past or we do to them, it causes a stronghold. Strongholds make it easier to keep secrets later in marriage. We teach couples coming clean from their past this: The first thing we have them do is fast and pray for God to reveal anything...and I mean anything in their past- childhood, dating years and married years....to confess and ask forgiveness for any sin issues. (even embarassing things which is probably the case here-they did stupid things and he is very embarassed to divulge them to YOU his wife who may be angry or hurt, or as a Christian he knows what he did was wrong and doesn't want to deal with it so he put it in a guy compartment.) A secret for a spouse means you are not one flesh. A sin secret means you are out of fellowship with God. You have decided to with hold part of your life from them. If it is a sin issue and not something silly it is guaranteed it will show up in your marriage or your children, don't understand why, but Satan works in pathetic ways.
            If this is really bothering you pray and ask God to allow you to let it go if there is nothing that would hinder your relationship as a husband and wife, or ask him to cause a heavy burden in your heart to cry out and fast for your beloved dh to tear down the strongholds and cause him to be truthful.

            now of course if it is like my dh-he was on a submarine and isn't allowed to tell me about the nuclear reactor or how fast the boat goes...umm you know I gotta get over it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Subs - fun - I would like to know the speeds...or at least have a vague idea (but I'm a speed demon in a car. My dad taught me how to have a lead foot!).

              Thanks for the info ladies...it's a mixed bag of help, but all help is welcome. I know there often aren't any clear-cut answers for things like this, but I at least like to feel that I can talk them out and get ideas... thanks.
              "People aren't confused by the gospel...
              They're confused by us.
              Jesus is the only way to God,
              But we are not the only way to Jesus.
              This word world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie,
              My denomination or my translation of the Bible.
              They just need Jesus...
              Jesus is going to save the world,
              But, maybe, the best thing we can do
              Is just get out of the way."

              ~"What This World Needs"~
              ~Casting Crowns ~

              Tradition doesn't save you, Christ does.
              Don't strap yourself to the Gospel.

              Comment


              • #8
                For what it is worth.....We are to be our husband's helpmates....I find if I am rightfully burdened and bring it only to the Lord He takes cares of whatever the issue is....Actually whether I am rightfully brdened or not He takes care of it...because He convicts me if I am wrong....

                Now do I succeed in every circumstance..no....but my overall goal is to do God's will....I am in submission to my husband...He has to answer to the Lord....Last week we had a big blow out and I was quiet (sad and quiet)...Monday he came home and said he wasn't going to take the meds the doctor gave him because they made him grouchy....(prednisone) I had prayed all Monday for God to show me how I needed to change to improve our marriage....to show me what I did (I was really confused about what happened) ......Mike told me he had prayed for the same thing...God blessed us....

                Rely on Him..He really loves helping!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know, I understand that as his wife you feel you have this right and he's denying you that. But by the same token, honestly, is what he did in the past, going to change how you feel about who he is today? I doubt it. He's not there now, and while yes, he is still a member, that's usually just something that benefits them throughout their lives; I understand that these sort of things mean that they now have the benefit of calling a frat brother and saying, hey, I need a job, can you help me out? Even if they don't know the guy, and the guy is from a younger generation.
                  I say it's not worth frettin over, but if it bothers you that much, explain to him WHY it bothers you that he won't share with you. Cause you feel excluded. But if he makes a promise and breaks it, then how would you feel if he makes a promise to you, would you trust him not to break that?
                  Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

                    We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

                    It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

                    I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.
                    "People aren't confused by the gospel...
                    They're confused by us.
                    Jesus is the only way to God,
                    But we are not the only way to Jesus.
                    This word world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie,
                    My denomination or my translation of the Bible.
                    They just need Jesus...
                    Jesus is going to save the world,
                    But, maybe, the best thing we can do
                    Is just get out of the way."

                    ~"What This World Needs"~
                    ~Casting Crowns ~

                    Tradition doesn't save you, Christ does.
                    Don't strap yourself to the Gospel.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LadyinWaiting View Post
                      Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

                      We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

                      It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

                      I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.
                      I know it hurtsbut if you have already shared this with your husband and he still refuses to tell you, then he's just not going to tell you, no matter what you say or do. God understands and only He can change the heart of a man. Trust God and let Him comfort you,let Him deal with your husband, He will give you peace over this matter.

                      PS, hmm, i don't know why that little guy with help sign is up at the top, typo, sorry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        However, the more I find out about sororities and fraternities (with their rituals, etc.) the more unease I feel and the more I wish he would just confirm to me that it was not some cult-ish experience that teetered on satanic involvement (many of those rituals have the chants and robes and such).
                        What about asking him to tell you whether or not the rituals teetered on satanic or not? Preface the question with you don't have to get into details with me. You will be able to tell by his reaction(and hopefully by an honest answer) to the question whether or not they were questionable... if they were then imo, it's important that he asks YHWH for forgiveness. If he hasn't asked for forgiveness, then it's as cnw said, it can become a stronghold in his life(and your marriage).
                        Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
                        -Jeremiah 6:16

                        Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LadyinWaiting View Post
                          Just to clarify...no. I won't view him any differently. He is who he is now. And who he is now is someone telling me I'm not allowed to know almost 3 years of his life except for the positions he held, the name of some of the rites of passage, and about their dances and rush weeks. That's it.

                          We committed to open honesty. So to compare a "vow" to his fraternity for a social reason and the vows we said at the altar (his commitment to them vs. his commitment to me) is not exactly a fair comparison. He doesn't sleep with them; he lives with me. They won't have his children; I will. So I think I do deserve a bit more status in his life and that he would uphold his promises to me with more ferver than his promises to a social organization before we ever met.

                          It's sort of an unfair example in my book. Yes, a promise is a promise. However, aren't we supposed to be one flesh? I'm supposed to be an extension of him.

                          I guess since I can't be in the frat I'm never supposed to know. It would be something permanently held from me, forever. And that does hurt, as much as I wish it wouldn't.

                          I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, I was only speaking of general promises. I used it as a comparison, simply because it IS such a minor one, when compared to you. And if he is willing to uphold such a minor promise, then you should be content to know that with greater promises he will definately uphold.

                          I'd just chalk it up to guy stuff, and it's really not worth getting upset over. There is a lot that I will never know about my husband I am sure, and vise versa....that's ok, what we know and will come to know is enough for both of us. Shoot, there's even stuff he doesn't care to know about, and that's fine too.

                          Just remember, they get that tiny part of him, but you get all the rest.
                          Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My advice is to just let it GO! If you are just worried about him being involved in satanic things, just ask about that in general. ('Have you ever used a ouija board, or anything like that?') Most frats and sororities are just drinking and partying. I doubt anything bad happened. Do you think that maybe, you are just feeling a bit jealous?

                            I know you want to know everything about your husband, and you think you are entitled to. And yes, you probably are, and he should be willing to tell you everything. But trust me, there are some things you don't want to know.

                            My husband has a long history of drinking and crazy partying. And every time he has a friend over they usually bring up a story. Well that peaked my interest and I started asking him about the stuff that he was being vague on. And now I really wish I could get some of those stories out of my head.
                            There are just some things that you are better off not knowing. If your husband is saved and living for God today, then that is good enough. God removes our sins so there is no remembrance- don't drag them up just to make him or your self feel bad again.

                            I have never found anyone, however religious and devout who did not sometimes experience withdrawal of grace, or feel a lessening of devotion. -Thomas a Kempis

                            If You Need Help, Ask God. If You Don't, Thank God. -Unknown


                            The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. -A.W. Tozer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Beloved - I appreciate your candid remarks. However, his frat was a non-alcohol party frat under his control. They were dry (it was part of what drove him from the frat because a faction began tarnishing their reputation and trying to force him out).

                              And yes, I may be jealous - I can admit that. However, what wife WOULDN'T be jealous when you're told how wonderful and fun it was until that last semester, but that there's a major part of it you aren't permitted to know? Would you be as willing to just "let it go" without still feeling a major pull at your gut? I think that's a relatively normal reaction, and I don't think it's entirely unjustified either.
                              "People aren't confused by the gospel...
                              They're confused by us.
                              Jesus is the only way to God,
                              But we are not the only way to Jesus.
                              This word world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie,
                              My denomination or my translation of the Bible.
                              They just need Jesus...
                              Jesus is going to save the world,
                              But, maybe, the best thing we can do
                              Is just get out of the way."

                              ~"What This World Needs"~
                              ~Casting Crowns ~

                              Tradition doesn't save you, Christ does.
                              Don't strap yourself to the Gospel.

                              Comment

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