Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wealth

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wealth

    A long time ago I heard a story from the bible about the rich man and his poor chances to get to heaven. I dont agree with most things the christians believe in, but I agree with the message of this story, even though i dont personally live by it. Most people that live in the western civilization dont live by the message of this story, most religious people dont live by it and all the people on these forums dont live by it.

    "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Doesent this sentence clearly state that every person that is rich wont get to heaven? By rich I dont mean what the western civilization considers as rich, but what is rich when taking into consideration the whole world. Since 2/3 of the world lives in poverty every person on this forum can be considered wealthy and thus according to the bible is going to hell.

    As i understand it many christians who are wealthy think that they can escape hell by thinking that as long as people are not too "attached" to wealth they have nothing to worry about. This is false naturally because the people that say this are extremely attached to their wealth since like I stated a lot of people are living in poverty and are in direct need of money and instead of giving money to those that really need it these christians spend it on things that they dont really need.

    What do you think of this?
    Last edited by tango; Jun 28th 2008, 07:46 PM. Reason: language

  • #2
    I think the love of money is a stumbling block:

    1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
    1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
    1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
    1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
    Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
    C. S. Lewis

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think it says that having riches will prevent us from getting into heaven. As calidog just mentioned the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, not money in its own right.

      In the story of the rich man the problem wasn't that he was rich, the problem was that he was unwilling to give his riches away. Given the choice between keeping his riches and not gaining eternal life, or giving up his riches, he chose to keep his wealth.

      It's easy to bandy about phrases like "as long as I'm not attached to it", but if I am wealthy there may come a day when I have to make that choice - to give up my worldly wealth for God's purposes, or cling to it and place it above God. What matters is how I make that choice, not how much wealth is on the table.
      24 August 2013 - I've decided to take a break from a number of internet forums, including this one, for my own reasons.
      I expect to be back at some time in the future, although at present don't know when that will be.
      I've been here just a few days shy of six years, and those six years have been greatly blessed.

      ---

      1Jn 4:1 NKJV Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
      1Th 5:21-22 NKJV Test all things; hold fast what is good. (22) Abstain from every form of evil.



      Comment


      • #4
        It is not a sin to be rich!!!! Using the money to help others I believe has a lot to do with being a good Christian IMO
        "The closer you live to God, the smaller everything else appears"

        Comment


        • #5
          The issue with this gospel account is that the Lord did not specify or define exactly what it is to be "rich." And since we have no definition of
          "rich," we couldn't say with any certainty who really is "rich." It's a very relative term. What's "rich" to one person may not be "rich" to another.

          The important thing to remember is that worldly riches are just an earthly
          representation of spiritual riches. And who are those who are rich in spirit? It is those who see themselves as poor in spirit. Those who confess to being blind so that they can begin to be given eyes to see.

          Comment


          • #6
            no it doesn't mean the rich are going to hell. it's trying to say it's hard for the rich to enter the kingdom because; i don't know about you but who needs God when you have millions.......right????????

            "they say money can't buy happiness, but money can buy a waverunner, try frowning on a wave runner"-unknown quote

            truth be told everyone needs God, but to your main point, it's easier for the poor becaus they have nothing, and they're heart isn't being decieved by world pleasures, because they have none.

            i guess.......hope that helps......word up.

            Comment


            • #7
              If I won the lotto the first thing I would do is THANK GOD! Not needing God if you have millions is rediculous! You need God no matter what! If I was rich..in money, trust me I am happy where I am, But i would help soooo many people and don't understand why the rich don't help more people! I would build housed with my bare hands for the poor, hospitals for the sick and pay people to run them....oh what I would do! It would make me feel so good to give every penny to the needy than be selfish with all of it! Don't get me wrong I'd buy a house and new car first But helping people would feel so good!! Just had to ad that :O)
              "The closer you live to God, the smaller everything else appears"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pertto View Post
                A long time ago I heard a story from the bible about the rich man and his poor chances to get to heaven. I dont agree with most things the christians believe in, but I agree with the message of this story, even though i dont personally live by it. Most people that live in the western civilization dont live by the message of this story, most religious people dont live by it and all the people on these forums dont live by it.

                "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Doesent this sentence clearly state that every person that is rich wont get to heaven? By rich I dont mean what the western civilization considers as rich, but what is rich when taking into consideration the whole world. Since 2/3 of the world lives in poverty every person on this forum can be considered wealthy and thus according to the bible is going to hell.

                As i understand it many christians who are wealthy think that they can escape hell by thinking that as long as people are not too "attached" to wealth they have nothing to worry about. This is false naturally because the people that say this are extremely attached to their wealth since like I stated a lot of people are living in poverty and are in direct need of money and instead of giving money to those that really need it these christians spend it on things that they dont really need.

                What do you think of this?
                You tell someone who has nothing that the only thing they can depend upon is Christ, there's little call for them not to believe you. You tell someone who has millions to their name, they will have a much harder time accepting that the security they think their money offers is deceptive, and even more so that their money is worthless.

                Christ wasn't saying that you can't have money or posessions and follow Him, He was just demonstrating that the rich man was blinded by his fortune into thinking that all his wordly wealth did him any good, and offered him anything comparable to eternal salvation.
                Call to Me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3
                You put the stars in the sky and you know them by name, You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same, You are amazing, God.
                I do not 'hope' I am saved and I do not 'think' I am saved, I know it with an absolute conviction. I know that I am saved just as I know that I think and I know that I feel. I am purchased and sealed, His possession.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pertto View Post
                  A long time ago I heard a story from the bible about the rich man and his poor chances to get to heaven. I dont agree with most things the christians believe in, but I agree with the message of this story, even though i dont personally live by it. Most people that live in the western civilization dont live by the message of this story, most religious people dont live by it and all the people on these forums dont live by it.

                  "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Doesent this sentence clearly state that every person that is rich wont get to heaven?

                  What do you think of this?
                  In this story, Jesus is pointing out this man's sin (which happened to be idolatry). Notice how the rich man tried to prove his 'goodness' by saying he'd kept all the commandments? Jesus will find your sin, and he found this man's sin. He could not let go of his money because it had become an idol to him.

                  This story is not just about rich people per se', but rather how we can't be good enough to get to heaven by our own efforts. In verse 19, Jesus says that no one is good - except for God. That is the point of this story.

                  No one is good enough to get to heaven. Nobody.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pertto View Post
                    As i understand it many christians who are wealthy think that they can escape hell by thinking that as long as people are not too "attached" to wealth they have nothing to worry about. This is false naturally because the people that say this are extremely attached to their wealth since like I stated a lot of people are living in poverty and are in direct need of money and instead of giving money to those that really need it these christians spend it on things that they dont really need.

                    What do you think of this?
                    I think your point of view will be taken more notice of when you, personally, are giving at least 10% of your income for the benefit of those living in poverty, and have evidence of how much of their income each Christian on this forum gives to those in need .

                    Jesus was, in fact, illustrating how we (you and I) put more value in 'things' than in being Forgiven by God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pertto View Post
                      "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Doesent this sentence clearly state that every person that is rich wont get to heaven? By rich I dont mean what the western civilization considers as rich, but what is rich when taking into consideration the whole world. Since 2/3 of the world lives in poverty every person on this forum can be considered wealthy and thus according to the bible is going to hell.
                      I've heard this section explained in the context of culture. The expression "camel through the eye of a needle" was refering to the moving a camel through a walkway or gate designed for people. A figure of speech if you will. The passage is meant to say "exceedingly difficult" not impossible. We have good examples of wealthy people that were close to God, especially in the old testament (Abraham, David, Solomon, etc).

                      Why would it be hard for a rich person to get into heaven? Because the rich feel the effects of "need" much less in life, being able to afford fulfillment (or the illusion there-of). Though its rare, there ARE wealthy people who acknowledge the great spiritual and physical needs met by God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tango View Post
                        I don't think it says that having riches will prevent us from getting into heaven. As calidog just mentioned the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, not money in its own right.

                        In the story of the rich man the problem wasn't that he was rich, the problem was that he was unwilling to give his riches away. Given the choice between keeping his riches and not gaining eternal life, or giving up his riches, he chose to keep his wealth.

                        It's easy to bandy about phrases like "as long as I'm not attached to it", but if I am wealthy there may come a day when I have to make that choice - to give up my worldly wealth for God's purposes, or cling to it and place it above God. What matters is how I make that choice, not how much wealth is on the table.

                        I'm in agreement here, it's the point where IF God calls you to make a choice, will you make the right choice?
                        I was making a ton of money, but felt that spiritually I was dying inside, though I was already a christian for several years. But feeling as though I was dying inside, I wanted out of the job I had, it was the thing that was draining me. And every time I went to turn in my two weeks, I got this awful knot in my gut saying "wait"...3 times I tried, and 3 times I got "wait". So I waited, and waited, a year passed, when suddenly God opened a door for me to leave and still be able to provide, just enough to get by. Now I am making 1/4 the money I was making and I am marrying a man who doesn't make as much as I did, and that's ok, because I know it was God who opened this door, and He is clearing a path for me to serve Him in some capacity.
                        See, I didn't love the money more than I love Him or His kingdom, it is the souls of the lost that I am sent for to find. I don't have much, and I don't much care, because I rejoice when just one comes to the One who loves them and gave His very life for them.
                        So please, do not think that it is impossible, I know of many many people who have left very lucrative jobs for the sake of serving our Lord, and others who maintain their wealth for the sake of giving it away to the poor and needy. I think you have judged us rather harshly without knowing us.
                        Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree with the direction in which the original poster is going. Perhaps they could consider Matthew 6:25-34.

                          My understanding, which meets much opposition from other Christians, is that ANYTHING you have beyond food, water, a set of clothes....well the very basics.....is bound to become a barrier between you and God.

                          The perfect person could be given a lottery win and do the right thing. Who is the ONLY perfect person who has and will ever live? Jesus Christ. So it's the old question what would Jesus do, or What would i do, if i could see Jesus physically standing beside me? (Because God/ Jesus is there always)

                          I find 'financial' topics on Christian web sites so differcult, because christians want advise, but when you mention the relevent verses, they don't want to hear them - why - BECAUSE yes it is hard. Wills, pay rates/ promotions/ over time. Can i buy this, a nice car, a bigger house in a better area - it's not for me it's for my wife/ the children.

                          This is Christian Answer and i believe, as i hope we all do, that honesty is always best. Wealth of any kind beyond the basics, should be used to help the poor, the sick, the hungry and to spread the gospel/ bible message.

                          Love and may God bless the original poster, Paul.
                          Last edited by ServantofTruth; Jul 1st 2008, 08:21 PM. Reason: wrong word twice
                          1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                          Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                          KJV

                          May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have to say that I am a little disappointed by the replies my post got. Most of you try to justify having wealth and using it for your own pleasure even though you fully well know that it could save hundreds of human lives. Then you go out and condemn homosexual and other that you consider to be sinners. It seems to be a bit hypocritical.

                            Lets suppose that what the bible says is true and Jesus sacrificed everything for us, how do you think he would feel seeing the people he gave everything for enjoying wealth while others suffered in poverty? Every person on these forums has money that they don't need for their survival and isn't giving it to those that really need it. Like i previously stated I don't think you would get off the hook by saying that you are not "attached" to your wealth and it doesn't "push" you away from God since you know that the money you have could do great things for those in need. In other words shouldn't you all be going to hell?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pertto View Post
                              A long time ago I heard a story from the bible about the rich man and his poor chances to get to heaven. I dont agree with most things the christians believe in, but I agree with the message of this story, even though i dont personally live by it. Most people that live in the western civilization dont live by the message of this story, most religious people dont live by it and all the people on these forums dont live by it.

                              "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Doesent this sentence clearly state that every person that is rich wont get to heaven? By rich I dont mean what the western civilization considers as rich, but what is rich when taking into consideration the whole world. Since 2/3 of the world lives in poverty every person on this forum can be considered wealthy and thus according to the bible is going to hell.

                              As i understand it many christians who are wealthy think that they can escape hell by thinking that as long as people are not too "attached" to wealth they have nothing to worry about. This is false naturally because the people that say this are extremely attached to their wealth since like I stated a lot of people are living in poverty and are in direct need of money and instead of giving money to those that really need it these christians spend it on things that they dont really need.

                              What do you think of this?
                              First off, lets take a look at the entire passage Matt 19

                              16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                              17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                              18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                              19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                              20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
                              21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
                              22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
                              23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
                              24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

                              The young man was trying to enter heaven by his own efforts of kindness, charity and love.

                              Rich does not only pertain to worldly possessions - in this case it did. It can also refer to a rich and full life. Friends, family, successful career. This is a person who built his treasures on earth - not in heaven. A person who leads someone to Christ is far richer then the man who only has material wealth.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X