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  • Should Christians abstain from politics?

    "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." - Titus 3 : 9

    "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not far from hence." - John 18 : 36


    Where in the entirety of the New Testament are we commanded to take political action? Where in the entirety of the New Testament do Christ or the Apostles take political action?

    Are they not found because such contentions are indeed utterly unprofitable? We know full well how useless our attempts to remedy political affairs are, through both experience and prophecy. Through your vote will you stay the prophecies of Revelation? Will by your protests the apostasy of man be avoided?

    No! These things will surely come to pass. Our efforts are better invested evangelically than politically, and do are better for our soul. Who among us strives in political affairs without speaking ill of dignitaries, which is condemned? Shall we read the paper, or shall we read the Bible instead? Shall we devote time too CNN or to scripture? Shall we write letters to our congressmen or shall we instead take the time to write letters of encouragement to our Christian brothers like the Apostles did?

    We are to be separate.

    The more we try to influence the affairs of the world, the more we become involved in it, and the more we become involved in it, the more influence it has upon us, and its influence brings corruption.

    "They say unto him, Caeser's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caeser the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." - Matthew 22 : 21

  • #2
    I have found that the closer I draw to Yahweh, the less interest I have in political affairs. Don't get me wrong, I still believe things like abortion and gay marriage are wrong. But I find it to be much more fruitful and fulfililng to seek the kingdom above, than to worry about earthly affairs. He is in control of all things, so when He wants to put an end to such atrocities, He will.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Joey Porter View Post
      I have found that the closer I draw to Yahweh, the less interest I have in political affairs. Don't get me wrong, I still believe things like abortion and gay marriage are wrong. But I find it to be much more fruitful and fulfililng to seek the kingdom above, than to worry about earthly affairs. He is in control of all things, so when He wants to put an end to such atrocities, He will.
      And he will. Most definitively. At the blowing of a trumpet.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Joey Porter View Post
        I have found that the closer I draw to Yahweh, the less interest I have in political affairs. Don't get me wrong, I still believe things like abortion and gay marriage are wrong. But I find it to be much more fruitful and fulfililng to seek the kingdom above, than to worry about earthly affairs. He is in control of all things, so when He wants to put an end to such atrocities, He will.
        I agree with this. The closer I become to the Lord God, the less active I have become in politics and the less passionate about them. No longer do politics even phase me.

        Having said that, I still believe that it is reasonable and good for believers to try and protect the innocent through passing laws. I find nothing in scripture where God desired government to be left only to evil men.

        The problem is that many in the religious right seem to think that government should be a means to control folks and to further the kingdom of God and that is dangerous thinking! We don't need government to endorse God, or prayer, or the bible, etc. Even in the example God gave us with Israel, God kept the kings and priest separate. Only a very few men were prophets and kings, one being David and another Solomon. Only Jesus himself will be prophet, priest and king.

        So when we try to legislate Christianity, we fall into a trap that was not meant for us to be in. If we examine scriptures closely, we see a common theme when religion and politics are combined. The first such occurrence is with the tower of Babel. There, man thought to build himself a tower to heaven and it was the first place in scripture where the word "kingdom" was used. Another example is Nebechadnezzar. He built a statue that was 60 cubits high, 6 cubits wide, and commanded all to worship when 6 instruments were played. (Do those numbers ring a bell?) What's interesting about that, is when he realized that the God of the three hebrew children was the real God, he then forced his nation to worship God. In effect he said if you don't worship God, I'll kill you. He didn't change his ways at all. He just had a mental revelation of who God was. The point? He still didn't get how to govern. Later, God humbled him and he repented.

        Let us not combine the priesthood and the kingdom. That doesn't mean we are not to try and protect the innocent from being killed or that we should as a society, ignore the plight of the poor. But it does mean that we don't have to push for prayer in public places, or having the bible read in court or school, etc.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Joey Porter View Post
          I have found that the closer I draw to Yahweh, the less interest I have in political affairs. Don't get me wrong, I still believe things like abortion and gay marriage are wrong. But I find it to be much more fruitful and fulfililng to seek the kingdom above, than to worry about earthly affairs. He is in control of all things, so when He wants to put an end to such atrocities, He will.
          Exactly!!

          I think we should be more worried about spreading the Gospel. I work at a talk radio station and I like it but I wish people would be that enthusiastic about finding the truth and the way to heaven, which is Jesus. I was so happy that I got the host to talk about the End Times one day.

          On the other hand, working at the talk station really keeps me up on the news when I otherwise couldn't care less, just like you. In fact, the more I pay attention, the more I am convinced that the end times are in our lifetime, but that's for another thread.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
            We don't need government to endorse God, or prayer, or the bible, etc. Even in the example God gave us with Israel, God kept the kings and priest separate. Only a very few men were prophets and kings, one being David and another Solomon.
            But note, not after Israel rejected God as king over Israel and wished a human king. (1 Sam 10:18-19).

            Ed

            Comment


            • #7
              People often recite the mantra, "if you don't vote, you have no right to complain." Well, to my way of thinking, the anemic power of politics, coupled with the fact that it is more often than not, used for corrupt purposes, is a valid reason to complain. This is further strengthened, by the fact that, according to the laws that these people have voted into existence themselves, the right to freedom of speech is not limited to those who vote, as well as the fact that no significant amount of positive change ever seems to come through politics.

              I submit that this chant of the politically minded is based on personal bias and is a very large non sequitur.
              ShalomUit
              Chal
              <*,})+<


              Ecclesia Reformata, Semper Reformanda: The church reformed and always to be reformed

              Truth may be stranger than fiction, but fiction is surely stranger than truth "may be." Maybe? -chal's Third (and final!) Big Book of Little Known Thingies that Could (in fact) Become Facts (or faxed) One Day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rebel777 View Post
                But note, not after Israel rejected God as king over Israel and wished a human king. (1 Sam 10:18-19).

                Ed
                David and Solomon were both after Israel requested a king. Israel was ruled by judges prior to that. Priest and King were not combined at all in Israel. Saul tried to do it and it was considered a very big sin.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  I, personally, have no interest in being involved in politics - but I'm sure the Lord has Gifted many of His people to be involved in ensuring that His Will is done in our respective Governments. For instance, if Lord Shaftsbury had not been involved in politics the 'slave trade' in this country would not have ended. If there were more real Christians in our present Government there would not have been so many unGodly laws passed. . . . so that is why I pray for Christian members of Parliament, who are filled with Holy Spirit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rejoice in all things.
                    We do need to trust in God.
                    All political laws should be based around good.
                    And who taught us good?

                    If you sit and think about whats good and whats bad you might realise that most of the things that are good can also be bad and most of the things that are bad can also be good.

                    Wise politicians can see these clearly and they will avoid bad whenever possible. But at times they are forced to use bad for the greater purpose of good. Unwise politicians will not see these clearly and they will do whats good in there eyes without considering or caring about the full consequences or possibilities but rather only see the face value of things.

                    When I think about politics I think in this direction...
                    I have faith that whoever the name or whatever the party they will be found wise. Saul comes to mind. "4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"

                    Think on politics but do not condemn anyone rather have faith that they might find a bright light to illuminate there way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theothersock View Post
                      "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." - Titus 3 : 9

                      "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not far from hence." - John 18 : 36

                      Where in the entirety of the New Testament are we commanded to take political action? Where in the entirety of the New Testament do Christ or the Apostles take political action?

                      Are they not found because such contentions are indeed utterly unprofitable? We know full well how useless our attempts to remedy political affairs are, through both experience and prophecy. Through your vote will you stay the prophecies of Revelation? Will by your protests the apostasy of man be avoided?

                      No! These things will surely come to pass. Our efforts are better invested evangelically than politically, and do are better for our soul. Who among us strives in political affairs without speaking ill of dignitaries, which is condemned? Shall we read the paper, or shall we read the Bible instead? Shall we devote time too CNN or to scripture? Shall we write letters to our congressmen or shall we instead take the time to write letters of encouragement to our Christian brothers like the Apostles did?

                      We are to be separate.

                      The more we try to influence the affairs of the world, the more we become involved in it, and the more we become involved in it, the more influence it has upon us, and its influence brings corruption.

                      "They say unto him, Caeser's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caeser the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." - Matthew 22 : 21
                      Polititians are public servants. We need them in our socities. I do know that many of them abuse it. And of course that's wrong. As long as we put God first in everything. I supposed that this needed prefession is OK.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think we need more good and honest people in government. And I vote in every election. I can't see how it would be a good idea for Christians to abstain from participating in our democracy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          if i have said any good thing, let it be credited to God, If any error myself.

                          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                          Having said that, I still believe that it is reasonable and good for believers to try and protect the innocent through passing laws. I find nothing in scripture where God desired government to be left only to evil men.
                          Are we even needed in this function?

                          Are there laws being lobbied for now that intend to harm the innocent? I assure you murder, theft and rape, are held to be condemnable even by the secular world.

                          And when such a time as laws so evil as you fear come to pass, no vote of yours mine or anyone will stay the tide of Armageddon.

                          I feel that it is more profitable for the believer to focus on spirituality and evangelism than legislation, and a FAR more effective route to reaching the unbeliever.

                          Who have you ever converted to Christ through legislation? Though you may ban homosexuality or abortion, do they still not crave these things in their hearts? Are they not then just as guilty?

                          I say do not place the band-aid of legislation on the broken bone of a godless soul, waste not your time treating the surface of a gaping wound, but focus all of your efforts on the source of the problem.

                          Preach to their hearts not their senators.

                          Make prayer, not legislation.

                          Go forth and witness, not protest.

                          Minister to the sinners, rather than condemn.

                          I assure you these are the ways by which souls are won.
                          "Entering into the world of politics", is a misleading expression on account of two extra words, for you are really only "Entering into the world". You will find yourself disheartened and frustrated and your efforts will only frustrate the sinners creating a chasm of bitterness between them and the church.

                          Reach out with an open hand of ministry, not a closed fist of legislation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by theothersock View Post
                            Are we even needed in this function?

                            Are there laws being lobbied for now that intend to harm the innocent? I assure you murder, theft and rape, are held to be condemnable even by the secular world.

                            And when such a time as laws so evil as you fear come to pass, no vote of yours mine or anyone will stay the tide of Armageddon.

                            I feel that it is more profitable for the believer to focus on spirituality and evangelism than legislation, and a FAR more effective route to reaching the unbeliever.

                            Who have you ever converted to Christ through legislation? Though you may ban homosexuality or abortion, do they still not crave these things in their hearts? Are they not then just as guilty?

                            I say do not place the band-aid of legislation on the broken bone of a godless soul, waste not your time treating the surface of a gaping wound, but focus all of your efforts on the source of the problem.

                            Preach to their hearts not their senators.

                            Make prayer, not legislation.

                            Go forth and witness, not protest.

                            Minister to the sinners, rather than condemn.

                            I assure you these are the ways by which souls are won.
                            "Entering into the world of politics", is a misleading expression on account of two extra words, for you are really only "Entering into the world". You will find yourself disheartened and frustrated and your efforts will only frustrate the sinners creating a chasm of bitterness between them and the church.

                            Reach out with an open hand of ministry, not a closed fist of legislation.
                            wise words, i agree with you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by theothersock View Post
                              Are we even needed in this function?

                              Are there laws being lobbied for now that intend to harm the innocent? I assure you murder, theft and rape, are held to be condemnable even by the secular world.

                              And when such a time as laws so evil as you fear come to pass, no vote of yours mine or anyone will stay the tide of Armageddon.

                              I feel that it is more profitable for the believer to focus on spirituality and evangelism than legislation, and a FAR more effective route to reaching the unbeliever.
                              Oh, politics won't reach the believer at all. But to answer you question, yes there are laws being lobbied for and already passed that harm the innocent. Abortion is just such a law.


                              Who have you ever converted to Christ through legislation? Though you may ban homosexuality or abortion, do they still not crave these things in their hearts? Are they not then just as guilty?
                              That's not the point of legislation or law. We don't have laws on the books against murder to save but rather to prevent murder. Innocents are worthy of protecting.

                              Keep praying for the unborn and I will as well. But I fully intend on not only praying for them, but also doing something for them.
                              Matt 9:13
                              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                              NASU

                              Comment

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