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  • Is "democracy" the beast government?

    I believe it is. I believe that Jesus foretold us all things.

    There are more than one "beast" in the bible, and I believe they all represent a type of "human" government. The last being the government we call "democracy"...that is made in the "image" of the first beast, which is represented as "the king of babylon, which we will get to later", but first I want to set up a standard as to how the last beast will be of the same spirit as the first beast, thereby making an image of the first beast...

    What is the first beast?

    So, to put this all together we need to understand how the word of God defines these terms.

    Pharoah represents the "god" of this world.

    Egypt represents "sin" and, his kingdom represents the fallen world...that held "Israel" in bondage, for example.

    We must look at the similarities concerning the "beast" that was, and now is, for it is made in that image.

    For example:


    Ex 9:1

    Then the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. 2 For if thou refuse to let them go, and wilt hold them still, 3 Behold, the hand of the LORD is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain. 4 And the LORD shall sever between the cattle of Israel and the cattle of Egypt:



    (this represents the same thing God is doing today, separating the true sheep from the false. The "field" is the world, as we read in the new covenant.)

    and there shall nothing die of all that is the children's of Israel. 5 And the LORD appointed a set time, saying, To morrow the LORD shall do this thing in the land. 6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one. 7 And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses and unto Aaron, Take to you handfuls of ashes of the furnace, and let Moses sprinkle it toward the heaven in the sight of Pharaoh. 9 And it shall become small dust in all the land of Egypt, and shall be a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast, throughout all the land of Egypt. 10 And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh; and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven; and it became a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast. 11 And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians. 12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
    13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.



    (this represents how God's servants today are standing before the god of this world, and, proclaiming "let God's people go", by witness of the testimony of Jesus, His servants, go into all the world/field, speaking before Pharoah/satan, to let 'God's people go'..which means, let them come out of the fallen world, held in bondage through sin/egpt...as we read in revelation, "come out of her My people")


    14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.



    (Here God explains why He raised up "the first beast"...so that it could be shown that all will reap what they sow, and, pestilence, and, etc, are the result of serving satan/pharoah..which is the same as we read in rev. about the beast that will be present at that endtime..and, we can read that in part here:


    Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. 3

    So, we see the first beast, and the image of the beast have the same outcome.

    Back to Exodus 9:


    17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? 18 Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now. 19 Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die. 20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses: 21 And he that regarded F21 not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.




    (this shows how some hear the words of the Lord, and respond to His words, while others hear and leave their servants in the field/world)


    We are called to come OUT of the world, for it is doomed to destruction, by the sure word of God, through reaping and sowing.


    We are eventually going to get to the point about "democracy" being the beast government, as was both the case here, and the case in the end time, but, I am trying to first show that the first beast, was present from the beginning of the fallen world, and, will be likewise in the end time, as the "image" of it...and, we will see how the "king" of that first beast, will also have a "image" made unto him, in the last days, as the king of babylon.


    Satan is the god of this world/babylon, but, he did have an earthly king, even in that time period..and, this is what we will study in a few more posts to come.


    There is nothing new under the sun, what has been shall be, and the image of the beast is already present in this world, in mho...when speaking of things concerning the fallen world, and it's outcome. There are so many parallells in the old covenant that shed much light on what is going to befall mankind in the end.

    More to come.

    Peaceandlove,

    janet

  • #2
    Back to Exodus 9:




    22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, upon man, and upon beast, and upon every herb of the field, throughout the land of Egypt. 23 And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt. 24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. 25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field. 26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.



    (this represents the same thing that is coming to this fallen world, as we read in revelation, as the judgement of the "beast" will be likewise the same.


    Here is the parallell of this verse:


    rev 8:7





    The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

    and,

    rev. 16:21
    And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


    Back to Exodus 9:

    27 And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. 28 Intreat the LORD (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty F22 thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer. 29 And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the LORD; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the LORD'S. 30 But as for thee and thy servants, I know that ye will not yet fear the LORD God. 31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled. 32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up. 33 And Moses went out of the city from Pharaoh, and spread abroad his hands unto the LORD: and the thunders and hail ceased, and the rain was not poured upon the earth. 34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. 35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.



    Parallell:


    In the last days, God will use the two witnesses in the same manner in which He used Moses, and when the two witnesses close up the heavens, just as Moses did, those whom serve as servants of Pharaoh, will be hardened, and once again, they will not turn from their worldly ways.




    Rev 11:1




    And I will give F12 power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


    So, they go right back with even harder hearts...



    Just as the case in Exodus also states.

    More to come, and, I am hoping that others with the same mindset will join in and give their added help, and for those whom are not of this mindset, we can discuss as to why not.

    ...and, we can get into how "democracy" fits into this beastly system, that is an image of the first one...with the earthly king of babylon.

    peaceandlove,

    janet


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    • #3
      Just a few questions:

      1. There were four governments mentioned in Daniel 2, the first of which was specifically identified as Nebuchadnezzar/Babylon. Then there were four beasts shown in Daniel 7. What objective reason do we have for assuming they are not the same?

      2. The parallels between the lion beast in Daniel 7 and Nebuchadnezzar are remarkable. Consider the episode of the lion being given the mind of a human with Nebuchadnezzar's account in Daniel 4. If Daniel 4 is not what the "human mind" episode is referring to, then what is it?

      3. The final beast is said to "crush" and "trample" everything under it. How does democracy do this, as opposed to more authoritarian forms of government?
      ----------------------------------------------
      When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
        Just a few questions:

        1. There were four governments mentioned in Daniel 2, the first of which was specifically identified as Nebuchadnezzar/Babylon. Then there were four beasts shown in Daniel 7. What objective reason do we have for assuming they are not the same?

        2. The parallels between the lion beast in Daniel 7 and Nebuchadnezzar are remarkable. Consider the episode of the lion being given the mind of a human with Nebuchadnezzar's account in Daniel 4. If Daniel 4 is not what the "human mind" episode is referring to, then what is it?

        3. The final beast is said to "crush" and "trample" everything under it. How does democracy do this, as opposed to more authoritarian forms of government?
        Hi,

        Good questions!

        I have to run to town and do some errands, and I would really like to give a good reply to this, so, I will have to do so a bit later, but, to make a short reply, in mho, the final beast does crush and trample everything under it, through democracy. Look around you today, what form of government is being forced upon all? Why are democratic nations forcing those whom are not democratic to submit?

        You see, it fits perfectly, but one thing is for sure....it too will fail...to bring peace to mankind, because man does not know the way to peace, as the bible says...making peace through war is a total contradiction.

        Jesus is the way to peace.

        He is the ONLY way to peace...and, without HIS peace, the other types will be shown for what they are, which is why the beast is going to be seen for what it is, eventually.


        ..and, God will destroy those whom are presently destroying the EARTH by force, with bombs, guns, and ultimately nuclear weapons, will come into play.

        peaceandlove,

        janet

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
          I have to run to town and do some errands, and I would really like to give a good reply to this, so, I will have to do so a bit later, but, to make a short reply, in mho, the final beast does crush and trample everything under it, through democracy. Look around you today, what form of government is being forced upon all?
          Easy. Communism.

          Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
          Why are democratic nations forcing those whom are not democratic to submit?
          Could you provide examples of this?

          Comment


          • #6
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
            I have to run to town and do some errands, and I would really like to give a good reply to this, so, I will have to do so a bit later, but, to make a short reply, in mho, the final beast does crush and trample everything under it, through democracy. Look around you today, what form of government is being forced upon all?

            Easy. Communism.
            Hi,

            I understand that some interpret it to be that type of government, and that of itself would have to be shown by the example of the king that was the king of babylon, during the days of old.

            Can you show how King Neb was a communist king?

            I would love to be able to see that in His word myself, but that is not what I see. What I see is a government that speaks like a lamb...and, that to me would show that it is not communism. We need to remember that satan, whom is the god of this world, and whom the word of God states would send STRONG dilusion, is not likely to deceive the world into worshipping the beast system of government, by looking or appearing to be evil, but, as we read throughout the word of God, he is good at transforming himself into an angel of "LIGHT".

            How does communism fit that mold?

            Thanks ahead of time.



            Quote:
            Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
            Why are democratic nations forcing those whom are not democratic to submit?

            Could you provide examples of this?

            Yes.

            The present "democratic" forces are forcing other nations, that they themselves term "evil" empires, to submit to big brother, or they will pay the consequences. The spreading of this false peace that the WORLD offers is not from God, but from the evil one, whom has pulled a very strong dilusion in these last days, in mho.

            Now, we can go look at the example of King Neb and see just how he did it back then, and how it compares to what is going on how..

            Is that fair enough? .....and, I would be more than happy to see that it could fit some evil government as communism, but the mold simply does not fit.

            peaceandlove,

            janet

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
              How does communism fit that mold?
              You asked: "Look around you today, what form of government is being forced upon all?".

              Far and away more people in this world are forced to live under communist governments than any other regime type. I don't have to fit an old testament mold (which incidently, Democracy won't fit either), I was simply answering your question.

              Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
              The present "democratic" forces are forcing other nations, that they themselves term "evil" empires, to submit to big brother, or they will pay the consequences. The spreading of this false peace that the WORLD offers is not from God, but from the evil one, whom has pulled a very strong dilusion in these last days, in mho.
              Again, can you provide examples of this?

              Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
              Is that fair enough? .....and, I would be more than happy to see that it could fit some evil government as communism, but the mold simply does not fit.
              As I don't believe the beast is a methodology of government, I wouldn't try to convince you its communism.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi,
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
                How does communism fit that mold?

                You asked: "Look around you today, what form of government is being forced upon all?".

                Far and away more people in this world are forced to live under communist governments than any other regime type. I don't have to fit an old testament mold (which incidently, Democracy won't fit either), I was simply answering your question.
                I believe it will fit, if we look into it. I have not yet had a chance to do that.

                You said, "communism" would fit, and I asked you to show that..nothing more, nothing less.

                I am here to share a view, not to push it.....

                You said, that democracy would not fit, either, but I see that it does..and, I will show that eventually, lol.


                Quote:
                Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
                The present "democratic" forces are forcing other nations, that they themselves term "evil" empires, to submit to big brother, or they will pay the consequences. The spreading of this false peace that the WORLD offers is not from God, but from the evil one, whom has pulled a very strong dilusion in these last days, in mho.

                Again, can you provide examples of this?
                I will show this in my next post.



                Quote:
                Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
                Is that fair enough? .....and, I would be more than happy to see that it could fit some evil government as communism, but the mold simply does not fit.

                As I don't believe the beast is a methodology of government, I wouldn't try to convince you its communism.


                Ok, then, why not show your view from the word of God, and we can discuss it, or by "not convincing me" do you mean you would not even want to discuss it?

                I am confused.

                peaceandlove,

                janet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Janet,

                  I can't follow the logic of your presentation. And so I can't see how you got your ideas from the passages you quoted.

                  That being said, I agree with your premise. I would add two things to it.

                  1. The image of the beast isn't democracy by itself, in my opinion. Rather the image of the beast is capitalism and democracy together.

                  2. I'm not talking about American style democracy, which is really a republic and contains enough checks and balances to keep democracy safe for our country.

                  Now, some have mentioned communism as an alternative because communism is evil. Well, I agree communism is evil and communism has spread too, just like democracy.

                  However, in terms of an "image", capitalism-democracy destroys the indigenous culture, replacing it with Fifth Avenue or Hollywood Culture wherever it goes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                    Janet,

                    I can't follow the logic of your presentation. And so I can't see how you got your ideas from the passages you quoted.

                    That being said, I agree with your premise. I would add two things to it.

                    1. The image of the beast isn't democracy by itself, in my opinion. Rather the image of the beast is capitalism and democracy together.

                    2. I'm not talking about American style democracy, which is really a republic and contains enough checks and balances to keep democracy safe for our country.

                    Now, some have mentioned communism as an alternative because communism is evil. Well, I agree communism is evil and communism has spread too, just like democracy.

                    However, in terms of an "image", capitalism-democracy destroys the indigenous culture, replacing it with Fifth Avenue or Hollywood Culture wherever it goes.
                    Hey bro Rog,

                    Could you elaborate on this quote:

                    I can't follow the logic of your presentation. And so I can't see how you got your ideas from the passages you quoted.

                    That being said, I agree with your premise. I would add two things to it.


                    Did you mean to say in the second bold that you do not agree with my primise? It sounds a bit confusing the way it is written.

                    Btw,

                    I agree with what you said about "capitolism/democracy".

                    That is exactly one point why I see a connection in democracy and the beastly system.

                    peaceandlove,

                    janet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Democracy is the road to socialism Karl Marx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jewel4Christ View Post
                        Hey bro Rog,

                        Could you elaborate on this quote:



                        Did you mean to say in the second bold that you do not agree with my primise? It sounds a bit confusing the way it is written.

                        Btw,

                        I agree with what you said about "capitolism/democracy".

                        That is exactly one point why I see a connection in democracy and the beastly system.

                        peaceandlove,

                        janet
                        Janet,

                        To be explicit, I agree with your idea that the Beast government might be democracy-capitalism.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's it? Honestly? Listen folks... the beast is not a system. The beast is not a computer. The beast is not any such non-tangible object. Computers and systems aren't put in the lake of fire. The beast is. Nor is the beast system democracy. Any reading of Scripture of the beast shows clearly that he is not about democratic systems. Goodness... I honestly don't get this.


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                          • #14
                            this is going to be interesting.

                            the thing i see about democracy/capitalism which in my opinion go hand in hand. is how it sells itself -- look you can have whatever you want and it gives in to greed of all kinds , it rewards greed with mammon. it says you can have whatever evil you want just work for it.

                            i view democracy like a battleship

                            does a captian ask his whole crew -- ok guys what do you want to do. no because it doesnt work

                            giving a person the right to vote is very misleading
                            its like ok you can vote on this issue no matter how ignorant of it you are, just fill in this box

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pinky View Post
                              Democracy is the road to socialism Karl Marx
                              It certainly can be. An if Janet is right, it's possible that the beast form of democracy will lead to socialism and ultimately humanism. I've always wondered if the number 666 was symbolic for a man-centered philosophy like humanism.

                              Remember the original temptation? "You will be like God, knowing good and evil." Compare that first temptation with the final antiChrist's proclamation that he is god.

                              I find the parallel striking.

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