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  • On Topics Such As Healing . . .

    you often times see folks criticizing those who don't have 100% success when praying for someone to be healed as Jesus did. Many have this notion that if healing were indeed for today then they wouldn't always see these difficult cases, such as those in wheel chairs, not being healed (although this does indeed still happen today). Then you have another group that instead of doing away with healing all together they will say that God just doesn't want to heal all the time, and that the folks in those wheel chairs that aren't being healed just weren't in God's right timing (although I don't really know where in the Scriptures that would be located). We have those who put the "timing" for healing all on God and absolutely refuse to accept the notion that the "timing" may be on them even though Jesus made statements such as the following . . .

    Mark 9:21-23
    So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”
    And he said, “From childhood. And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.
    Looks to me that in this passage of Scripture the father of the boy tried to put the responsibility on Jesus to "have compassion" and Jesus sort of flipped the script and said, "If you can believe . . ."

    I wonder how many people go to the Lord in prayer today saying, "Lord have compassion on me . . . " or, "Have mercy on me . . . "

    And all the while the Lord is saying in His Word, "If you can believe . . . "

    As for those who are not being healed like many of those in those wheel chairs, one of the main problems I believe is this . . .

    Romans 12:6-8
    Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
    People have gifts that are given them by the Lord, and these gifts need to operate in proportion to the faith we have. The problem, IMO, stems mainly from the fact that many people try to operate in gifts unproportional to the faith they have. If you can't believe God to work His power through you to raise a person out of a wheel chair then it is best to not do it at all. All that is done in such a situation is a hindering of faith. Folks will see this and then they will start doubting and compromising their faith as we have witnessed so much over the years. We must operate in the gifts proportional to the faith that we have. The problem seems to be, IMO, that so many Christians are double-minded and allow doubt to creep into their minds. James tells us that a man who doubts is a double-minded man and he can receive nothing from God. Yet, many will lie and say, "It isn't my faith that's the problem!"

    "It's all in God's timing!"

    or in other words . . .

    "It's God that doesn't want to heal me!"

    I know this may ruffle some feathers, but I'm just a little worn out by so many always blaming God for why they aren't receiving something.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  • #2
    Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
    The problem, IMO, stems mainly from the fact that many people try to operate in gifts unproportional to the faith they have..
    i agree completely

    christ had no misfires in healing he just did it

    i think also there is a difference between praying to be healed or have someone healed and the "gift" of healing

    we can be of weak faith and pray for healing - to which god might answer

    but i think thats different than the gift

    Comment


    • #3
      There is another element that you did not speak to.
      Not only is the healing, or any other miracle, dependant upon one's gifting and level of faith, but the person being prayed for has part also.
      Case in point:
      Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post

        People have gifts that are given them by the Lord, and these gifts need to operate in proportion to the faith we have. The problem, IMO, stems mainly from the fact that many people try to operate in gifts unproportional to the faith they have. If you can't believe God to work His power through you to raise a person out of a wheel chair then it is best to not do it at all. All that is done in such a situation is a hindering of faith. Folks will see this and then they will start doubting and compromising their faith as we have witnessed so much over the years. We must operate in the gifts proportional to the faith that we have.
        .
        I love this! You have presented a great truth.

        Comment


        • #5
          And then there is the case of Lazarus. Jesus was informed that Lazarus was sick, and they requested He come and heal him. But what did Jesus do?
          John 11:6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
          He waited a couple extra days. By the time he got there, poor Lazarus was already dead 4 days.
          Reason for Jesus' waiting? That He may be glorified.
          So here is a case where God's timing was directly involved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
            There is another element that you did not speak to.
            Not only is the healing, or any other miracle, dependant upon one's gifting and level of faith, but the person being prayed for has part also.
            Case in point:
            Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
            I touched on it a little bit, but I agree with you. Doubt and unbelief is the same in my book. Both those who pray doubt at times and those who need healing as well. We are in agreement here.
            "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

            -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
              And then there is the case of Lazarus. Jesus was informed that Lazarus was sick, and they requested He come and heal him. But what did Jesus do?
              John 11:6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
              He waited a couple extra days. By the time he got there, poor Lazarus was already dead 4 days.
              Reason for Jesus' waiting? That He may be glorified.
              So here is a case where God's timing was directly involved.
              I believe this is a very rare circumstance that was used to show who Jesus was. On no occasion throughout the Word do I know of where a person came to Jesus in faith only to be told,"This isn't the best time . . . come back next week."

              Everyone who came to Jesus in faith received what they came for, and none of them were told that it wasn't in His timing. In fact, the kingdom of God was and is at hand, and their deliverance from those bondages were part of that arrival.
              "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

              -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

              Comment


              • #8
                True, very rare. Probably the only instance in the Word. But yet, that possibility exists, regardless how rare it was in the Word.
                I think also it depends on whether it's time for that person to go home. A person dying is not a bad thing, if you are a Christian, and a brand new body is a guarantee.
                I know that my life is in His hands, belongs to Him. I know that I will not die physically until He says it's time, and, I know there is no power on earth that will prevent it when that time comes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I used to work at a high school with special needs students. One of them had a debilitating disease that caused him to have complete loss of his motor skills. Because it was progressive, eventually it would overtake him and cause his heart to cease movement, along with other organs.

                  He prayed all the time for healing. While praying, however, he would witness to fellow students. He was able to get away with it too - what teacher or student is going to stop listening to a disabled kid in a wheelchair that is loved by all? What principle is going to tell him to stop? He was able to say things about Christ in circumstances that would have gotten other students in trouble. Furthermore, people listened and many came to Christ.

                  Two months before his graduation he laid down for the last time and slipped quietly into the arms of Christ. He never received his healing on this earth. Does this mean he didn't believe?

                  A person that unabashedly shared the Gospel like he did obviously has faith, thus it couldn't have been that He didn't believe. Instead, the most plausible explanation is that God allowed Him to suffer through that disease and eventually took Him home.

                  Paul had a similar situation where he had a physical thorn in the flesh that, though he prayed, God would not remove.

                  God has purposes. Though we should have faith that He will heal us, if it isn't in His Will than He won't. We should instead ask for grace if He chooses not to heal us and for Him to reveal His purpose. God simply doesn't heal everyone - this is evidenced by some of the greatest men and women of God dying from diseases.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A lack of faith is not always the reason for healing prayers not working. If we pray anything according to God's will (with faith) He will do it. God often chooses not to heal someone because it isn't His will. It's this way with everything we pray for. I've seen sincere people truly believing God was going to heal them and God did not.

                    For years I prayed for a baby. My husband and I tried every imaginable treatment for 6 years and I believed with all my heart God would heal my womb and give me a child. He did not. This wasn't from a lack of faith. I still believe He could do it, but have a beautiful adopted girl now.

                    In my experience God seems to move in healings with non-believers more than He does with believers. Often He is demonstrating His power to someone who doesn't know Him. My sister was dying from leukemia and He healed her through prayer. She now knows Christ as a result of how God worked in her life, how He revaealed Himself, and God performed a great miracle n her life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                      I used to work at a high school with special needs students. One of them had a debilitating disease that caused him to have complete loss of his motor skills. Because it was progressive, eventually it would overtake him and cause his heart to cease movement, along with other organs.

                      He prayed all the time for healing. While praying, however, he would witness to fellow students. He was able to get away with it too - what teacher or student is going to stop listening to a disabled kid in a wheelchair that is loved by all? What principle is going to tell him to stop? He was able to say things about Christ in circumstances that would have gotten other students in trouble. Furthermore, people listened and many came to Christ.

                      Two months before his graduation he laid down for the last time and slipped quietly into the arms of Christ. He never received his healing on this earth. Does this mean he didn't believe?

                      A person that unabashedly shared the Gospel like he did obviously has faith, thus it couldn't have been that He didn't believe. Instead, the most plausible explanation is that God allowed Him to suffer through that disease and eventually took Him home.

                      Paul had a similar situation where he had a physical thorn in the flesh that, though he prayed, God would not remove.

                      God has purposes. Though we should have faith that He will heal us, if it isn't in His Will than He won't. We should instead ask for grace if He chooses not to heal us and for Him to reveal His purpose. God simply doesn't heal everyone - this is evidenced by some of the greatest men and women of God dying from diseases.
                      And yet not one example from the Word of God that declares that God just doesn't want to heal some . . . even that boy with the debilitating disease. Where in the Word do folks come up with this stuff? Can you give me just one example? Just one?

                      Additionally, the Word does not declare that Paul's thorn in the flesh was some disease. In fact, it says it's not a disease. His thorn was persecution.
                      "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                      -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
                        True, very rare. Probably the only instance in the Word. But yet, that possibility exists, regardless how rare it was in the Word.
                        I think also it depends on whether it's time for that person to go home. A person dying is not a bad thing, if you are a Christian, and a brand new body is a guarantee.
                        I know that my life is in His hands, belongs to Him. I know that I will not die physically until He says it's time, and, I know there is no power on earth that will prevent it when that time comes.
                        True. It could be a person's time to die. However, that still does not negate the fact that every single last person that came to the Lord in faith got what they were seeking. Every single one of them. Not one was turned away. Not one didn't receive. Not one was told, "It's not time." Not one was told, "It's not my will." Not one was told, "You staying sick brings Me glory."

                        None of those things happen one single time in all of the Word of God. Yet, it's so easy for Christians these days to proclaim this to be the case without a shred of biblical support. It's all compromise.
                        "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                        -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kate View Post
                          A lack of faith is not always the reason for healing prayers not working. If we pray anything according to God's will (with faith) He will do it. God often chooses not to heal someone because it isn't His will. It's this way with everything we pray for. I've seen sincere people truly believing God was going to heal them and God did not.

                          For years I prayed for a baby. My husband and I tried every imaginable treatment for 6 years and I believed with all my heart God would heal my womb and give me a child. He did not. This wasn't from a lack of faith. I still believe He could do it, but have a beautiful adopted girl now.

                          In my experience God seems to move in healings with non-believers more than He does with believers. Often He is demonstrating His power to someone who doesn't know Him. My sister was dying from leukemia and He healed her through prayer. She now knows Christ as a result of how God worked in her life, how He revaealed Himself, and God performed a great miracle n her life.
                          where does it say that God heals unbelievers more than believers? All of Gods promises are to believers, to the unbeliever the wrath of God abides on them. AS per the BIBLE, anything we ask in the name of Jesus we will receive. Jesus has authority over all flesh

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kate View Post
                            A lack of faith is not always the reason for healing prayers not working. If we pray anything according to God's will (with faith) He will do it. God often chooses not to heal someone because it isn't His will. It's this way with everything we pray for. I've seen sincere people truly believing God was going to heal them and God did not.
                            And again I challenge you, give one passage of Scripture that declares this to be the case. Name me one person being oppressed by the enemy that came to the Lord in faith that did not receive what they came for. Just one . . .
                            "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                            -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                              I used to work at a high school with special needs students. One of them had a debilitating disease that caused him to have complete loss of his motor skills. Because it was progressive, eventually it would overtake him and cause his heart to cease movement, along with other organs.

                              He prayed all the time for healing. While praying, however, he would witness to fellow students. He was able to get away with it too - what teacher or student is going to stop listening to a disabled kid in a wheelchair that is loved by all? What principle is going to tell him to stop? He was able to say things about Christ in circumstances that would have gotten other students in trouble. Furthermore, people listened and many came to Christ.

                              Two months before his graduation he laid down for the last time and slipped quietly into the arms of Christ. He never received his healing on this earth. Does this mean he didn't believe?

                              A person that unabashedly shared the Gospel like he did obviously has faith, thus it couldn't have been that He didn't believe. Instead, the most plausible explanation is that God allowed Him to suffer through that disease and eventually took Him home.

                              Paul had a similar situation where he had a physical thorn in the flesh that, though he prayed, God would not remove.

                              God has purposes. Though we should have faith that He will heal us, if it isn't in His Will than He won't. We should instead ask for grace if He chooses not to heal us and for Him to reveal His purpose. God simply doesn't heal everyone - this is evidenced by some of the greatest men and women of God dying from diseases.
                              It is never Gods will for a believer to suffer.

                              Comment

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