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  • The fig tree, the vine, and the olive branches.

    Let us begin with scripture...

    Amos 4:9 (Whole Chapter)
    I have smitten you with blasting and mildew: when your gardens and your vineyards and your fig trees and your olive trees increased, the palmerworm devoured them: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

    Habakkuk 3:17 (Whole Chapter)
    Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
    James 3:12 (Whole Chapter)
    Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

    So what exactly are the fig tree, the vine, and the olive branches?

    Before I speak on them I would like to give others the chance.

    Discuss.

  • #2
    Originally posted by phaeton426 View Post
    So what exactly are the fig tree, the vine, and the olive branches?
    The vine and its branches;

    Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

    Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

    Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

    Jesus is the vine.

    Two types of branches:

    1. True branches on the vine abide in the vine and bear fruit
    2. False branches on the vine don't and don't bear fruit

    The Father cuts the false branches off the true vine so the true branches can grow and sprout more and bear more fruit:

    Branches


    Jesus is the root of the good olive true

    Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.


    Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

    Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ShirleyFord View Post
      The vine and its branches;

      Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

      Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

      Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

      Jesus is the vine.

      Two types of branches:

      1. True branches on the vine abide in the vine and bear fruit
      2. False branches on the vine don't and don't bear fruit

      The Father cuts the false branches off the true vine so the true branches can grow and sprout more and bear more fruit:

      Branches


      Jesus is the root of the good olive true

      Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.


      Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

      Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

      Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
      Seems to be a big leap here, unless I'm missing something. I can find nothing that says anything about branches being false or true. The comparison for branches is that some bear fruit and some don't.
      In your quotes, the word "false" does not appear and "true" is used only with reference to the vine. I'm left wondering how these scriptures can be made to say something other than what they say? What am I missing here?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DadBurnett View Post
        Seems to be a big leap here, unless I'm missing something. I can find nothing that says anything about branches being false or true. The comparison for branches is that some bear fruit and some don't.
        In your quotes, the word "false" does not appear and "true" is used only with reference to the vine. I'm left wondering how these scriptures can be made to say something other than what they say? What am I missing here?

        What about the words of Jesus Himself Burnett?


        John 15
        1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

        2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

        3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

        4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

        5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

        6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

        7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

        8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

        9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

        10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

        11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

        12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

        13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

        14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

        15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

        16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

        17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

        18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

        19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

        20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

        21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.


        Matt 7
        20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

        21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

        22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

        25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

        26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

        27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ShirleyFord View Post
          What about the words of Jesus Himself Burnett?
          Thanks.
          I have no problem with any of the words of Jesus. What I reacted to in the earlier post was the appearance of someone putting words into Jesus’ mouth, implying that He said something that is not anywhere written in these verses. What I saw written in that post was:

          “Two types of branches:
          1. True branches on the vine abide in the vine and bear fruit
          2. False branches on the vine don't and don't bear fruit”


          Jesus did not say that the branches were either false or true, He spoke only of branches bearing (or not bearing) fruit. The word true was used only with respect to the vine and the word false is not anywhere therein mentioned.
          I wondered why the simple straightforward words Jesus were not enough. Why was it necessary, or even appropriate, to add something to, or reinterpret, what Jesus specifically and purposefully said of the branches?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by phaeton426 View Post
            Let us begin with scripture...

            Amos 4:9 (Whole Chapter)
            I have smitten you with blasting and mildew: when your gardens and your vineyards and your fig trees and your olive trees increased, the palmerworm devoured them: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

            Habakkuk 3:17 (Whole Chapter)
            Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
            James 3:12 (Whole Chapter)
            Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

            So what exactly are the fig tree, the vine, and the olive branches?

            Before I speak on them I would like to give others the chance.

            Discuss.
            In the passages you quote, I believe each plant is just a plant and not symbolic for anything.

            Comment


            • #7
              Let us take another look at scripture with this parable...

              6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

              7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
              8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

              Now we know that Christ is the true vine for scripture tells us so.

              Scripture also tells us what fruit is...

              16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

              So fruit is the good works that people do which brings people to God and Christ.

              Can we at least agree on what the vine is and what fruit is before we continue?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by phaeton426 View Post
                So what exactly are the fig tree, the vine, and the olive branches?
                They are metaphors.

                Things God created (dirt, seeds, plants, animals) are used in metaphors to relate spiritual concepts. It is a theme throughout scripture.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a long stretch to say that the "vine" mentioned in the Amos passage has anything to do with Jesus calling himself the "vine" later in John.

                  The first is a literal viney plant--which God afflicted with blight, mildew, and insects to cause the people to turn to him (which they didn't). The second is a powerful metaphor Jesus used to describe how we (his followers) get all our sustenance from him and can't live without him.

                  There's no need to stretch scripture beyond what it says. Sometimes a vine is just a vine.

                  (But tell me if I missed the point--that happens sometimes.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Much of what happens in OT scripture is a foreshadowing of things to come.

                    In that particular verse, the palmerworm is also important, but that's probably a debate for a whole other thread.

                    You don't find it telling that the vine and the fig tree parallel each other often in scripture?

                    Here is another reference with the figs, olives, and vine.

                    7And when they told it to Jotham, he went and stood in the top of mount Gerizim, and lifted up his voice, and cried, and said unto them, Hearken unto me, ye men of Shechem, that God may hearken unto you.
                    8The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
                    9But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                    10And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
                    11But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                    12Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
                    13And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                    14Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us. 15And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.

                    Coincidence? I think not.

                    We know what the vine is for Christ said it was him, and we know what the olive branches are through revelation.

                    So what is the fig tree? Bear in mind that it has fruit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In the passages cited in the first post (Amos, Habukkuk, and James), the fig, olive, and vine are just that. Plants.

                      Nothing symbolic at all and a gross error to attempt to extrapolate anything on top of the plain language of the text.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                        In the passages cited in the first post (Amos, Habukkuk, and James), the fig, olive, and vine are just that. Plants.

                        Nothing symbolic at all and a gross error to attempt to extrapolate anything on top of the plain language of the text.
                        Then I guess we are just going to have to disagree.

                        The vine, the olive branches, and the fig tree, are a consistent theme together throughout scripture. They are very often together. This is not coincidence. To write them off as nothing more than plants is the gross error in my opinion.

                        Christ tells us exactly what the vine is, and revelations tells us exactly what the olive branches are. The fig tree is in the middle of the vineyard in one parable, and is being shaken by a mighty wind in yet another, so that the bad fruits fall off of it. In other scriptures there are also leaves that fall off of the vine. In another scripture the fig tree that bears no fruit Christ touches so that it dries up.

                        Every single piece of scripture there is has a deeper meaning than what first appears.

                        Including this one...

                        6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
                        7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by phaeton426 View Post

                          Every single piece of scripture there is has a deeper meaning than what first appears.
                          Poppycock and balderdash. Ninnyhammers.

                          The Scripture says exactly what is says and what it meant to original hearer or reader and absolutely nothing else. Only when we understand what the original audience understood can we then attempt to make a parallel application to our lives in our cultures.

                          But there is no "deeper meaning". Period. Esoteric postmodern gobbledygook.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by phaeton426 View Post
                            Much of what happens in OT scripture is a foreshadowing of things to come.

                            In that particular verse, the palmerworm is also important, but that's probably a debate for a whole other thread.

                            You don't find it telling that the vine and the fig tree parallel each other often in scripture?

                            Here is another reference with the figs, olives, and vine.

                            7And when they told it to Jotham, he went and stood in the top of mount Gerizim, and lifted up his voice, and cried, and said unto them, Hearken unto me, ye men of Shechem, that God may hearken unto you.
                            8The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
                            9But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                            10And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
                            11But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                            12Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
                            13And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
                            14Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us. 15And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
                            Foreshadowing? Those words speak to the mockery of kingship not anointed by God. The words speak of what is happening with Abimelech seeking to be king.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teke View Post
                              Foreshadowing? Those words speak to the mockery of kingship not anointed by God. The words speak of what is happening with Abimelech seeking to be king.
                              That's it eh?

                              Then why did he speak in a parable instead of clear words?

                              There is all sorts of foreshadowing in scripture. For example...

                              1And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies;

                              2That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.
                              3And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.
                              4And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?

                              Now David then proceeds to build the temple of the Lord. But what other temple did David build? The temple of Christ. And God dwelled within the temple of Jerusalem, but what temple does he dwell in now? The temple of Christ.

                              Foreshadowing.

                              History repeats itself.

                              And there is foreshadowing in that parable too.

                              Comment

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