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  • My former hypocrisy

    What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.

    Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.

    Galatians 2:19-21, The Message

    Read the above carefully, it really ministered to me about the freedom that we have in Christ. I also read the rest of Galatians in The Message. I highly recommend this, The Message Bible makes it clear as day about salvation not being through law-keeping and works, but by grace alone.

    And while real grace brings about a change in the heart, sometimes we have to downplay this because otherwise people will put too much of an emphasis on works as a means to salvation.

    The law is a tutor to lead us to Christ, we come to Christ when we realize we cannot keep it no matter how hard we try.

    In Galatians 2:17-18 The Message says,

    Have some of you noticed that we are not yet perfect? (No great surprise, right?) And are you ready to make the accusation that since people like me, who go through Christ to get things right with God, aren't perfectly virtuous, Christ must therefore be an accessory to sin? The accusation is frivolous. If I was "trying to be good," I would be rebuilding the same old barn that I tore down. I would be acting as a charlatan.

    Galatians 6:11-13, The Message,

    Now, in these last sentences, I want to emphasize in the bold scrawls of my personal handwriting the immense importance of what I have written to you. These people who are attempting to force the ways of circumcision on you have only one motive: They want an easy way to look good before others, lacking the courage to live by a faith that shares Christ's suffering and death. All their talk about the law is gas. They themselves don't keep the law! And they are highly selective in the laws that they do observe. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast of their success in recruiting you to their side. That is contemptible!

    Be praying that all in the body of Christ may come to a real understanding of God's grace as it is in reality!
    Phileo and Agape in Christ,
    Geoffrey Primanti

    I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law.
    Gal. 5:2-3, TMB
    To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.
    Eph. 3:8, NKJV

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gift of God View Post
    What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.

    Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.

    Galatians 2:19-21, The Message

    Read the above carefully, it really ministered to me about the freedom that we have in Christ. I also read the rest of Galatians in The Message. I highly recommend this, The Message Bible makes it clear as day about salvation not being through law-keeping and works, but by grace alone.

    And while real grace brings about a change in the heart, sometimes we have to downplay this because otherwise people will put too much of an emphasis on works as a means to salvation.

    The law is a tutor to lead us to Christ, we come to Christ when we realize we cannot keep it no matter how hard we try.

    In Galatians 2:17-18 The Message says,

    Have some of you noticed that we are not yet perfect? (No great surprise, right?) And are you ready to make the accusation that since people like me, who go through Christ to get things right with God, aren't perfectly virtuous, Christ must therefore be an accessory to sin? The accusation is frivolous. If I was "trying to be good," I would be rebuilding the same old barn that I tore down. I would be acting as a charlatan.

    Galatians 6:11-13, The Message,

    Now, in these last sentences, I want to emphasize in the bold scrawls of my personal handwriting the immense importance of what I have written to you. These people who are attempting to force the ways of circumcision on you have only one motive: They want an easy way to look good before others, lacking the courage to live by a faith that shares Christ's suffering and death. All their talk about the law is gas. They themselves don't keep the law! And they are highly selective in the laws that they do observe. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast of their success in recruiting you to their side. That is contemptible!

    Be praying that all in the body of Christ may come to a real understanding of God's grace as it is in reality!
    lpost, and lovely testimony!
    Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Comment


    • #3
      Recommendation:

      Do not use The Message version.

      I'm biased against The Message, and for good reason.

      1 - It's a paraphrase, not a translation. It's a single individual's personal interpretations of Biblical passages, not an accurate translation of the original languages. As a result, you can be guaranteed that what you are reading is going to have inaccurate messages in at least some places.

      2 - Certain Biblical passages have been proven have been altered by The Message's author. For example, in nearly every other Bible translation, Jesus says "The Father and I are one." Plain as day, Jesus is saying that He and God are the same, that He is God because He and God are one. The Message, on the other hand, paraphrases this as "The Father and I are one in heart and mind." That drastically changes what Jesus was saying. The author of The Message changed Jesus' claim of being one with God into Jesus claiming to have the same ideas as God.

      3 - It's been shown that the author of The Message borrows quite a bit of his phrasing from New Age and occultic groups. Meaning, he's changing the words of the Bible into pagan words.

      Simply put: The Message "Bible" is a terrible Bible to use. It does not matter if you think it's easy to understand. It's just not trustworthy.
      To This Day

      Comment


      • #4
        (The MESSAGE is not a translation, its a paraphrase. Its a fine tool for personal devotional times but was never intended to be a translation.)

        I am so glad to hear that you have broken away from some of the legalism that enslaves.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't use The Message as the final authority on anything. I have read completely the KJV, NKJV, NASB and NIV Bibles in the past, maybe not every word, but enough to know the general teaching of what the Bible is when you take a look at all translations. I agree with InHisGrip. The Message is good for devotional times but was not intended to be a translation.

          When I compare The Message's rendition of Galatians to the NKJV, which is the other Bible I am currently reading, I find that they are not contradictory to one another and that The Message sheds a lot of light on doctrines that were previously hidden from me.

          "The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy."

          God has done something good in my life through The Message.

          Just like the enemy to try to make me distrust its message and thus lose what I have gained.
          Phileo and Agape in Christ,
          Geoffrey Primanti

          I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law.
          Gal. 5:2-3, TMB
          To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.
          Eph. 3:8, NKJV

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gift of God View Post
            What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.

            Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.

            Galatians 2:19-21, The Message

            Read the above carefully, it really ministered to me about the freedom that we have in Christ. I also read the rest of Galatians in The Message. I highly recommend this, The Message Bible makes it clear as day about salvation not being through law-keeping and works, but by grace alone.

            And while real grace brings about a change in the heart, sometimes we have to downplay this because otherwise people will put too much of an emphasis on works as a means to salvation.

            The law is a tutor to lead us to Christ, we come to Christ when we realize we cannot keep it no matter how hard we try.

            In Galatians 2:17-18 The Message says,

            Have some of you noticed that we are not yet perfect? (No great surprise, right?) And are you ready to make the accusation that since people like me, who go through Christ to get things right with God, aren't perfectly virtuous, Christ must therefore be an accessory to sin? The accusation is frivolous. If I was "trying to be good," I would be rebuilding the same old barn that I tore down. I would be acting as a charlatan.

            Galatians 6:11-13, The Message,

            Now, in these last sentences, I want to emphasize in the bold scrawls of my personal handwriting the immense importance of what I have written to you. These people who are attempting to force the ways of circumcision on you have only one motive: They want an easy way to look good before others, lacking the courage to live by a faith that shares Christ's suffering and death. All their talk about the law is gas. They themselves don't keep the law! And they are highly selective in the laws that they do observe. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast of their success in recruiting you to their side. That is contemptible!

            Be praying that all in the body of Christ may come to a real understanding of God's grace as it is in reality!
            Good points and I agree with most of what you said. Remember though that sincerely wanting to please God isn't a bad thing. I think ideally, we all should be men(and women) who sincerely want to please God through our conduct, and the way we work his message throughout our lives.

            Comment


            • #7
              If I was "trying to be good," I would be rebuilding the same old barn that I tore down.
              The person who tries to be pleasing to the Father after understanding His will, tears down an old barn, and builds a new one on a sound foundation (the Torah Law and Prophets), but not with the plans he makes of his own, but rather with the plans of God by instruction of God just as Noah did (the renewing of the mind through the Spirit). This makes for a better barn than there was before which should be able to stand when the rain comes, and the wind blows to where nothing can damage it and tear holes into it, or worse tear it down.

              This new barn is going to be covered with His Son’s blood where there are no holes for the blood to seep through, and therefore no spot will be left uncovered when we stand before God on that day giving account of our life. This way there will be no nakedness, which God can see.
              Can you imagine what would have happened had Noah been sloppy with his work and not followed God's instructions? None of that covering with pitch would have been to any avail.
              And if you recall he was told to cover inside and out with pitch......
              This is synonymous with the Word written into our hearts aka being circumcised in the heart, and then being covered by the blood.

              To each their own, I chose to follow Him the way He showed me to.

              Shalom,
              Tanja
              Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
              2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
              If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
              http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



              Comment


              • #8
                But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6.

                This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them. Hebrews 10:16.

                It is not a matter of keeping the rules and regulations of the law. If you are in Christ then his law is written in your heart, you are not focused on all the laws and on your self-keeping of them, you are focused on Jesus Christ and what He has done for you. He has brought forgiveness of sins through His blood, this is more freeing than you could ever imagine if you really understand it, it leads you into holiness based on what Christ has done for you and not based on what you can do for God.
                Phileo and Agape in Christ,
                Geoffrey Primanti

                I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law.
                Gal. 5:2-3, TMB
                To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.
                Eph. 3:8, NKJV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Let me add:

                  I fully agree that if one circumcised themselves only to consider themselves in the covenant then the work of Christ would indeed be for nought.
                  If you follow the law to boast in front of people and flash your holiness, then again, you are doing it all for the wrong reason.

                  However, i do not think that one trying to do all these things out of love for their father and thus wanting to please Him is wrong to do so.

                  Look at your own chiuldren, doesn't it warm your heart when you see your child trying their best because they want to please/impress you?

                  Now if the same child does this because you have company over and they act up to show off, how do you feel?

                  Exactly!!!! That's what makes the difference between doing it for the right reason and the wrong reason.

                  Shalom,
                  Tanja
                  Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                  2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                  If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                  http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gift of God,

                    Let me ask you, are all the Law written into your heart in a single instant?

                    Do you know the depth of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself in that short moment of time when you made the decision to follow God?

                    I propose it takes time and life here on earth is a training period and a learning experience.

                    I know that God has been rebuilding me slowly and with care, not instantaneously. Why else do you propose we all still are capable of sin? We are newborn, do you propose a newborn to be able to do everything right from the moment it was born?

                    I'm very much focused on the Law, as in it is the determining factor and measuring rod on what i wil do any given moment in life. It is when i chose to follow His way when i pick up my cross in that instant and carry it.

                    In this way i'm focusing on Christ, because He asked me to follow Him. How could i not be focusing on Him when i follow Him in deed? I know what He has done for me, and i follow Him out of gratefulness.
                    I know He nailed the requirements for my sins which were the wages of sin = death to the cross.....


                    Shalom,
                    Tanja
                    Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                    2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                    If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                    http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It is incomprehensible to me that "focusing on the Law" is somehow equated to "taking up one's cross."

                      Paul teaches quite the contrary.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think a lot of people may have misunderstood my point about conduct on this one. Don't want to go tit for tat, do think it's a good idea to clarify what I meant. Conducting ourselves is based on the faith the God has imparted us within our life, and what 1 Corinthians 13 describes love to be. The law is simply Love. Anyone who has loved God and their brothers in this way is walking with God and is doing his will. We know everything that love is and isn't through the scriptures and through the sacred law, and now we can rejoice in knowing what the love of God truly is, and why it's so pleasing to him and both ourselves if we continue to walk in love with him, as well as with our bretheren.

                        So let us all continue to follow the two commands which all of the commands are stemmed from in this and other discussions. Those being to "love God" and "love one another." God bless all in Christ.

                        Stephen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gift of God,

                          Let me ask you, are all the Law written into your heart in a single instant?

                          Do you know the depth of loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself in that short moment of time when you made the decision to follow God?
                          Ezekiel 36:25-27.
                          Phileo and Agape in Christ,
                          Geoffrey Primanti

                          I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law.
                          Gal. 5:2-3, TMB
                          To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.
                          Eph. 3:8, NKJV

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
                            Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
                            Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
                            Eze 36:28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

                            It says nothing about the time frame in which this will happen whether this is instantaneous or something developing over time. just that Gpd will do this.

                            However "cause to walk in my statues and careful to obey my rules" seems to imply that it's something developing over time and not instantaneous.

                            Shalom,
                            Tanja
                            Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                            2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                            If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                            http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jesusinmyheart View Post
                              The person who tries to be pleasing to the Father after understanding His will, tears down an old barn, and builds a new one on a sound foundation (the Torah Law and Prophets), but not with the plans he makes of his own, but rather with the plans of God by instruction of God just as Noah did (the renewing of the mind through the Spirit). This makes for a better barn than there was before which should be able to stand when the rain comes, and the wind blows to where nothing can damage it and tear holes into it, or worse tear it down.

                              This new barn is going to be covered with His Sonís blood where there are no holes for the blood to seep through, and therefore no spot will be left uncovered when we stand before God on that day giving account of our life. This way there will be no nakedness, which God can see.
                              Can you imagine what would have happened had Noah been sloppy with his work and not followed God's instructions? None of that covering with pitch would have been to any avail.
                              And if you recall he was told to cover inside and out with pitch......
                              This is synonymous with the Word written into our hearts aka being circumcised in the heart, and then being covered by the blood.

                              To each their own, I chose to follow Him the way He showed me to.

                              Shalom,
                              Tanja
                              The only foundation Tanja is Christ. Not the Torah and the Prophets. That was the foundation the Jews built upon thinking they held eternal life in the letter of the Law. It didn't then... don't now. Christ is that way and not the letters in the Book.


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                              A.W. Tozer said,
                              "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.Ē

                              GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

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