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  • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Step one: Condemnation as an unbeliever and understanding I was in doubt of God's judgment without a remedy.
    Step two: Repenting of my previous unbelief and rebellion against God and placing my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.
    Step three: A new reality. (See Romans 8:1-17 and many others like Romans 15:13)

    My faith is in Jesus Christ. I know I am saved by that because He dwells within. I do not observe an additional faith in a ritual commanded of me after knowing step three. Else my faith is placed in my obedience which is a misplaced faith. Obedience is because of a properly placed faith in the former.
    =========\

    One must believe in order to properly repent....keep it in prospective.
    You are not saved until Christ says you have properly cleansed your garment of sin/stains and then are baptized and have lived a righteous life according to God's commandments...all...oh...118........if I remember correctly.........of them.

    It must be an offence to God the Father for any earthling to say they are...saved!!! God is the one who declares that a person is..... saved ....and that is done at the time of His judgement. We can only be born again while here on earth.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by preston39 View Post

      =========\

      One must believe in order to properly repent....keep it in prospective.
      Not really, rather, you must repent in order to believe. Thus, "repent ye, and believe the Gospel".

      Originally posted by Preston39
      You are not saved until Christ says you have properly cleansed your garment of sin/stains and then are baptized and have lived a righteous life according to God's commandments...all...oh...118........if I remember correctly.........of them.

      It must be an offence to God the Father for any earthling to say they are...saved!!! God is the one who declares that a person is..... saved ....and that is done at the time of His judgement. We can only be born again while here on earth.
      I assume then that you are without assurance of salvation besides your baptism? For me, I am a child of God and have the assurance of such.

      Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

      If you don't possess the above witness and instead your witness is your baptism and the record of your continual obedience to the 118 or so commandments, then I can understand why you don't know or can't say for yourself whether you are saved or not.
      Watchinginawe

      I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

        Not really, rather, you must repent in order to believe. Thus, "repent ye, and believe the Gospel".



        I assume then that you are without assurance of salvation besides your baptism? For me, I am a child of God and have the assurance of such.

        Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

        If you don't possess the above witness and instead your witness is your baptism and the record of your continual obedience to the 118 or so commandments, then I can understand why you don't know or can't say for yourself whether you are saved or not.
        Awesome discernment.

        When value of one's salvation is put on what man does and not on what Jesus... DID, then it is understandable how some can place more value to man's work, than Jesus' payment.


        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

          Not really, rather, you must repent in order to believe. Thus, "repent ye, and believe the Gospel".



          I assume then that you are without assurance of salvation besides your baptism? For me, I am a child of God and have the assurance of such.

          Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

          If you don't possess the above witness and instead your witness is your baptism and the record of your continual obedience to the 118 or so commandments, then I can understand why you don't know or can't say for yourself whether you are saved or not.
          ==============
          WOW...you have it backwards. Unless I believe I would have never repented.

          I am assured because I have been baptized...have you?...if not ....you are not eligible to receive God's acclimation of ...saved...when He judges you after physical death....does that concern you?
          Last edited by preston39; Jan 19th 2020, 02:14 AM. Reason: clarity

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

            Awesome discernment.

            When value of one's salvation is put on what man does and not on what Jesus... DID, then it is understandable how some can place more value to man's work, than Jesus' payment.

            His payment is in blood. We must does certain things to qualify to receive His award.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by preston39 View Post

              His payment is in blood. We must does certain things to qualify to receive His award.
              We have to believe unto Him, repent of the unbelief we "had," to be washed clean by Jesus, correct?
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              Comment


              • Originally posted by preston39 View Post

                ==============
                WOW...you have it backwards. Unless I believe I would have never repented.
                No, one must first repent of their unbelief (and the reasons) in order to replace their unbelief with belief. Consider the following and determine what it was that lacked in order to believe John the Baptist:

                Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

                So, repentance in the above is to reconsider one's current belief and change their mind about it. The change the mind part is "repenting" and thus allowing the new belief.

                Here is a pretty good example. You believe the ritual of water baptism is when and how God brings "salvation" to an individual. For you to accept my position, you would need to repent of your current belief in order to form the new belief. It is just the way things are. Sure there is repentance about a great many things after being a believer, but they are of the same form: Consider one's position on a thing or action, repent of that, and conduct according to a new thought on the matter.


                Originally posted by Preston39
                I am assured because I have been baptized...have you?...if not ....you are not eligible to receive God's acclimation of ...saved...when He judges you after physical death....does that concern you?
                I have been water baptized as Jesus commands. Water baptism is an "ordinance" of Jesus, so why wouldn't I? However, I did not participate in the ritual in order to "wash away my sins". I have been told by some that one's belief that submitting to baptism performs remission of sins is necessary for the baptism to be "valid". Yeah, valid. Are you one of those too? Would you say my water baptism is invalid because I did not believe on the ritual for the purpose you believe it holds?
                Watchinginawe

                I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                Comment


                • Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
                  Slug1--out

                  ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                    No, one must first repent of their unbelief (and the reasons) in order to replace their unbelief with belief. Consider the following and determine what it was that lacked in order to believe John the Baptist:

                    Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

                    So, repentance in the above is to reconsider one's current belief and change their mind about it. The change the mind part is "repenting" and thus allowing the new belief.

                    Here is a pretty good example. You believe the ritual of water baptism is when and how God brings "salvation" to an individual. For you to accept my position, you would need to repent of your current belief in order to form the new belief. It is just the way things are. Sure there is repentance about a great many things after being a believer, but they are of the same form: Consider one's position on a thing or action, repent of that, and conduct according to a new thought on the matter.


                    I have been water baptized as Jesus commands. Water baptism is an "ordinance" of Jesus, so why wouldn't I? However, I did not participate in the ritual in order to "wash away my sins". I have been told by some that one's belief that submitting to baptism performs remission of sins is necessary for the baptism to be "valid". Yeah, valid. Are you one of those too? Would you say my water baptism is invalid because I did not believe on the ritual for the purpose you believe it holds?
                    =========
                    Be guided by scriptures. It is God's word...not mine...remember.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                      Not really, rather, you must repent in order to believe. Thus, "repent ye, and believe the Gospel".



                      I assume then that you are without assurance of salvation besides your baptism? For me, I am a child of God and have the assurance of such.

                      Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

                      If you don't possess the above witness and instead your witness is your baptism and the record of your continual obedience to the 118 or so commandments, then I can understand why you don't know or can't say for yourself whether you are saved or not.
                      ====================

                      That is a non applicable reference to the point.

                      Why attack me aren't we talking about God's word?

                      Shoot the messenger if you don't like the message...huh?

                      We are reminded what the first few letters of the word assume means. In this case you are wrong.

                      I find that asking usually gets me further than drawing negative conclusions.

                      Try it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                        No, one must first repent of their unbelief (and the reasons) in order to replace their unbelief with belief. Consider the following and determine what it was that lacked in order to believe John the Baptist:

                        Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

                        So, repentance in the above is to reconsider one's current belief and change their mind about it. The change the mind part is "repenting" and thus allowing the new belief.

                        Here is a pretty good example. You believe the ritual of water baptism is when and how God brings "salvation" to an individual. For you to accept my position, you would need to repent of your current belief in order to form the new belief. It is just the way things are. Sure there is repentance about a great many things after being a believer, but they are of the same form: Consider one's position on a thing or action, repent of that, and conduct according to a new thought on the matter.


                        I have been water baptized as Jesus commands. Water baptism is an "ordinance" of Jesus, so why wouldn't I? However, I did not participate in the ritual in order to "wash away my sins". I have been told by some that one's belief that submitting to baptism performs remission of sins is necessary for the baptism to be "valid". Yeah, valid. Are you one of those too? Would you say my water baptism is invalid because I did not believe on the ritual for the purpose you believe it holds?
                        ========
                        That's strange...you don't believe scripture requiring baptism...but, you have been baptized. Do you plan to become un-baptized?

                        How dare you miss lead others of God's word but comply yourself.

                        Geessch.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by preston39 View Post

                          ====================

                          That is a non applicable reference to the point.

                          Why attack me aren't we talking about God's word?

                          Shoot the messenger if you don't like the message...huh?

                          We are reminded what the first few letters of the word assume means. In this case you are wrong.

                          I find that asking usually gets me further than drawing negative conclusions.

                          Try it.
                          ...
                          ========
                          That's strange...you don't believe scripture requiring baptism...but, you have been baptized. Do you plan to become un-baptized?

                          How dare you miss lead others of God's word but comply yourself.

                          Geessch.
                          You know, I bet we would get along fine in real life. I apologize if you felt my defense was an attack. We should really get along better.
                          Our discussion here is about doctrine, and it is a lot easier in this format to be overly dogmatic.

                          The difference in belief between us is that you believe the ritual of water baptism confers the actual remission of sins and I believe the ritual of water baptism confirms that the actual remission of sins has occurred. We both believe the Scriptures command water baptism, so we don't differ there.

                          For me, where I am with this is looking at in what one's faith is placed in. I believe we misplace our faith when we place it in anything other than Jesus Christ. We preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, of which baptism has a role. We don't preach the Gospel of Baptism in the name of Jesus, of which Jesus has a role. (And yes, I believe we should baptize and be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.)

                          I will add this, and please think about it. We have those who have received Jesus as their Savior and testify of receiving the assurance of the Holy Spirit. You and I both agree that such a one should hear about and be water baptized, according to the Scripture and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your doctrine calls on such a one to basically testify against that which they have received as something false which needs to be replaced by confidence in a ritual. I sincerely believe that is misleading others of God's word and Holy Spirit and potentially harmful to the young believer.
                          Watchinginawe

                          I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by preston39 View Post

                            His payment is in blood. We must does certain things to qualify to receive His award.
                            Your works are as filthy rags my friend. All of them.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                              The difference in belief between us is that you believe the ritual of water baptism confers the actual remission of sins and I believe the ritual of water baptism confirms that the actual remission of sins has occurred. We both believe the Scriptures command water baptism, so we don't differ there.
                              Amen. Philip acted as a leader in a proper manner by ensuring the eunuch was FIRST baptized by Jesus and redeemed of sin, before he would allow the eunuch do his first good work as a disciple.

                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                                The difference in belief between us is that you believe the ritual of water baptism confers the actual remission of sins and I believe the ritual of water baptism confirms that the actual remission of sins has occurred. We both believe the Scriptures command water baptism, so we don't differ there.
                                Amen. Philip acted as a leader in a proper manner by ensuring the eunuch was FIRST baptized by Jesus and redeemed of sin, before he would allow the eunuch do his first good work as a disciple.

                                Slug1--out

                                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                                Comment

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