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Is a Second Work of Grace Necessary

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  • Is a Second Work of Grace Necessary

    By 'second work' I mean baptism of the Holy Spirit. Should believers expect such a thing and what are we to do if it doesn't happen (at least in the way it's 'supposed to': tongues, etc.)? Is sanctification possible without it?
    Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

  • #2
    Absolutely NOT ... The only work of grace necessary for justification in the sight of God is faith and repentance. The blood of Christ is all there is, and if someone adds anything to it, they are justifying themselves by their own righteousness, and their own works.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
      By 'second work' I mean baptism of the Holy Spirit. Should believers expect such a thing and what are we to do if it doesn't happen (at least in the way it's 'supposed to': tongues, etc.)? Is sanctification possible without it?
      Soon as a person believes in Christ, He redeems (saves), them and they receive the Holy Spirit. This is a promise from God.

      Eph 1:
      13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
      14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

      All believers receive the Holy Spirit, they enter into the process of sanctification so believers can become like Christ over their physical lifetime.

      If a person DOES receive what is referred to as "the baptism of the Holy Spirit," based on all examples in scripture, they speak in tongues as evidence.
      --
      Slug1--out

      ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

      ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

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      • #4
        So a second blessing comes to some but not others?
        Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pbminimum View Post
          Absolutely NOT ... The only work of grace necessary for justification in the sight of God is faith and repentance. The blood of Christ is all there is, and if someone adds anything to it, they are justifying themselves by their own righteousness, and their own works.
          I notice you said "necessary for justification." What about sanctification?
          Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
            So a second blessing comes to some but not others?
            If you're going somewhere let's hear it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

              I notice you said "necessary for justification." What about sanctification?
              Graces work for sanctification is never finished until glory. But that's not a second work, it's one and the same. Wouldn't you say ?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pbminimum View Post

                Graces work for sanctification is never finished until glory. But that's not a second work, it's one and the same. Wouldn't you say ?
                That depends. If part of grace's work requires a 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' evidenced by tongues or other signs, what's a person supposed to do if they never experience this. Can sanctification proceed?
                Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                  By 'second work' I mean baptism of the Holy Spirit. Should believers expect such a thing and what are we to do if it doesn't happen (at least in the way it's 'supposed to': tongues, etc.)? Is sanctification possible without it?
                  We need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to accomplish the work of Christ. Act 1: 8 But ye shall receive power, after the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
                  To God be the Glory

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
                    By 'second work' I mean baptism of the Holy Spirit. Should believers expect such a thing and what are we to do if it doesn't happen (at least in the way it's 'supposed to': tongues, etc.)? Is sanctification possible without it?
                    The question is not difficult, but if a brother is looking for a reason to contend, an answer to avoid conflict is difficult. So I present it this way.

                    When God made man, man was perfect in his humanity. But to be truly in the likeness and image of God, the man had to possess God's nature. So God places man before the Tree of Life and commands him to eat. When a man eats something, the actual food becomes ONE with the body. The body stays a body but becomes one with what it ate. But then the man must use his body to do work. So the food he ate should be a source of strength. If Adam had eaten of the Tree of Life, he would have been "partaker of the divine nature" and he would have been "furnished" for work by that same food. But sin came in and man, having eaten of a Tree that produced death, became one with death, and was NOT "furnished" for God's work (which entailed subduing angels - a creature greater than man.

                    1. This sin needed to be set aside for God to renew His plan. This is the story of the Lamb. But once sin was set aside, man still had to "take in" the divine life. This is what the gospel of John deals with - God getting into man and man getting into union with God INTERNALLY. It is predicted in John 14-16, and comes to pass on resurrection day in John 20:22. This divine life has the effect of making man a new creature - a son of God by birth.

                    2. Now, a son is a son, and he enjoys all the privileges of the Father's house, position and becomes an HEIR. But because sin came in, God requires a "SIGN" that the son is willing to set aside himself for the Father's affairs. The great hindrance to God's WORK is the flesh of man. It opposes at all times. So God required a sign that His sons would put aside the flesh as if it had died, give it no room to maneuver, and actively deny its requests. When our Lord did this on the cross He called it Baptism (Matt.20:22-23). It was an immersion in death symbolically. And until the son of God makes this gesture, he is NOT qualified to WORK for God.

                    3. Once this gesture or sign is made, God "furnishes" the believer-son with the same Spirit that is in him, but as an outward mark of authority. And God gives him a gift, or gifts for building God's People - a gift in proportion to his natural ability. From then on, the man, now a son by the INWARD divine nature (2nd Pet.1:4), and who has entered into a Pact with God for his inheritance, may do WORKS in proportion to the gift of the same Holy Spirit. The works are demanded and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

                    4. But there remain two more acts of grace for the once fallen man. The first is that his irretrievably fallen human nature is slowly but surely driven out of him by God's dealing, and replaced with Christ's humanity. This called "transformation" (Rom.12:2; 2nd Cor.3:18). This is a long process whereby the old nature is dealt with by trials and disciplining, and replaced by practice and eating more of Christ. God's wish is that the man cooperate in this training by denying himself, while the Holy Spirit infuse Christ into the man.

                    5. The last act of grace is that the body of man, which he has already declared not fit for God's purposes by Baptism, is changed by an act of that same Holy Spirit. If the believer has died, he receives a resurrection body fit for God's purposes, and if the believer is still alive when the day of judgement arrives, his body is changed to the constituency of the resurrection body.

                    These FIVE actions are necessary for a man to be fully recovered by God. The first TWO are by FAITH. The THIRD - Baptism, is by OBEDIENCE. The fourth id by a self-denying COOPERATION with the Holy Spirit. And the FIFTH - resurrection, is guaranteed without the intervention of the man. It is clear that in ALL FIVE there is a measure of GRACE - some more than others.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by angelmike View Post

                      We need the baptism with the Holy Spirit to accomplish the work of Christ. Act 1: 8 But ye shall receive power, after the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
                      What are those to do who never experience this? Are we simply out of luck as far as being of any use to the Lord?
                      Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Is "second blessing" and "baptism of the Holy Spirit" in regards to receiving a "second work of grace" just another way of saying someone received a gift of the Holy Spirit (like tongues) and was filled with the Holy Spirit?
                        Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

                          That depends. If part of grace's work requires a 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' evidenced by tongues or other signs, what's a person supposed to do if they never experience this. Can sanctification proceed?
                          I was baptized by the Holy Spirit when I was saved. There are some who testify to God pouring His Spirit on them before commissioning them to ministry, a specific work, etc. Who am I to argue against them simply because I haven't experienced this ?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

                            What are those to do who never experience this? Are we simply out of luck as far as being of any use to the Lord?
                            No, it's a promise to everyone.
                            Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
                            Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and thy sons and thy daughters shall prophesy, and thy young men shall see visions, and thy old men. shall dream dreams:
                            Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
                            To God be the Glory

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                            • #15
                              For what it is worth, my testimony is that nothing special happened to me. I was blessed to be in a Church that put Christ first and His Word second. I sat under teaching for 11 years before I opened my mouth. Paul was under training longer - 14 years. If you receive the gift of tongues or evangelist, you might exercise it quite quickly. If you are given the gift of Pastor you first need to raise a family and learn to manage it - for this is the training ground for managing God's Household. Don't be in a hurry for manifestations. A dog barks by nature. When your time is right you'll automatically be "furnished" for God's work and do it effortlessly.

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