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Can you accept Pauls doctrine , in its context ?

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  • Can you accept Pauls doctrine , in its context ?


    Yes I do understand the quotes like " we're saved by grace , not of works lest any should boast , you are his workmanship created in Christ , unto good works prepared in advance , that we should walk in them " I do know Paul says " I preached unto you first of all ...Jesus died for your sins according to scripture , was raised to life according to scripture ....but , here's just a simple chapter from an epistle , doesn't really matter which one , but can you accept what Pauls teaching here ? And not have to look for a different one or two verse quote in order to somehow .....avoid what Pauls saying ?



    “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

    For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

    But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


    Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

    And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

    And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

    Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

    Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

    And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.”
    ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-21, 23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Do you sort of think a chapter like this .....sounds a bit like an echoe of the sermon on the mount ? What if we examine elsewhere in the epistles of Paul ? Would we find really vast amounts of truth and knowledge ,...that actually doesn't say " saved by grace " but says things like what's now expected of you ...because Jesus Christ gave great suffering , shame , and eventually his own precious life .....so you can be saved , and be called a child of God . Notice if you accept just what is there not a verse that you agree with , and sounds meaningless and effortless requiring nothing real of you , then your thinking about the gospel , about salvation ....begins to change or " conform " to Gods true word ,

    ,,,,but if the response is " that is not for me I don't need to ever hear something like this I'm saved by grace " or if you look for another verse elsewhere seeming to contradict .....you then are removing the context and meaning of the verse . There's no understanding about grace and salvation , just by saying I'm saved by grace , now I'll never accept another word from the same bible , same letter Paul wrote to the church ...there's no way for the word to work in us like that , we have to believe the things we don't want to accept in order to come to repentance and life , that parts important because ...as the same apostle Paul taught elsewhere to the church ....

    “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
    ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Again same thing Jesus taught first....but you see this is a call to repentance for those who will hear and believe ....This is how faith changes us ,me accept the things that seem to hurt or sting because we know it means we need to move into true repentance ....if we continually reject things that don't make us feel comfortable , we end up with a distorted view and understanding , simply because we refuse to believe the word of God , which is how he works in a believer to bring righteousness and salvation ....

    “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJ


    if if we never believe we need repentance , we will never do it the flesh love sin too much , if we first hear and believe the truth about it from Gods word .....then we can accept , or reject it and this shapes faith . You have to be willing to hear the word of righteousness .....or you can never believe the work God is willing to do in us , circumsizing the heart , and those roots of lust , pride , greed , vanity .....the things the flesh just adores and hungers for ...take up the two edged sword into the heart and believe ....expect things to change though as your faith grows it's not always pleasant , and your not going to hell when you stumble and fall , or lose heart and begin to sink .....Jesus will never condemn those who hear the truth and follow where he leads ...

    God bless you in the abundance of Jesus Christ ......consider reading Paul , in chapters , and sections rather than single verses and I believe that understanding will begin in someone willing to accept what they find even if they don't agree or haven't heard it before .....Pauls epistles are wonderfully full of spiritual truth and salvation .....because it's the same understandings Jesus preached and sent out his disciples .....to preach



  • #2
    Repentance is actually when you set your affections on things above , and not the things of earth , not the world or the flesh ....but you turn your affection to the promises God made through Jesus Christ to those who would believe . Promises like " eternal life , citizenship in the kingdom of God , the new heaven and earth to come , or " the world to come of which we speak as an apostle writes " repentance comes when we believe the gospel , we learn the truth about God , he loves us deeply ....so he is willing to forgive us , and also teach us that if we continue following sin , we are going to die ....Paul and Jesus both taught the same things , Peter same things m John same things though , more spiritual than the others ....repentance and believing the gospel go hand in hand , because the truth is what we have to hear to come to repentance . Of we believe God will never punish our ongoing sins , we are deceiving our own selves because we refuse to believe what he has clearly spoken regarding this matter ....or any matter .

    We condemn ourself , when we reject what the living God has said , because he's always been telling us " if you,keep sinning you will die , but if you accept my word , and believe what I'm saying ....you will live "

    Sinners in thier heart just can't hear this simple truth , it seems as if Gods will is foriegn , his word a mystery , something no man can ever do .....but that's all a lie meant to keep,us from the step of making the decision , to,learn and grow up in Christ , to experience the circumcision in him tangibly as our knowledge is changed from good and evil ....to the word of spirit and life , John 6:63 ....we have to believe the word or we will never even understand what salvation is , what causes condemnation that we need salvation from it ....it's all written everything we need to know , it's a matter of hearing the word , above all the voices explaining why you shouldn't ...

    See this verse here Paul says " we're not saved by works , but by grace through faith " okay , what then does he say about grace teaching us to deny ungodliness and live upright sober lives while we await the return of Jesus ? ...why does he say " shall we sin because we are under grace and not the law ? God forbid , don't you know if you continue obeying ain you will die ? And if you turn and obey the gospel you will live ? For the wages of sin is death , and obedience leads to righteousness and eternal life ....the gift of God ?....


    Paul doesn't teach conditionless anything or different anything , he's preaching the gospel and offering revelation of the Jew and gentile one body .

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
      Yes I do understand the quotes like " we're saved by grace , not of works lest any should boast , you are his workmanship created in Christ , unto good works prepared in advance , that we should walk in them " I do know Paul says " I preached unto you first of all ...Jesus died for your sins according to scripture , was raised to life according to scripture ....but , here's just a simple chapter from an epistle , doesn't really matter which one , but can you accept what Pauls teaching here ? And not have to look for a different one or two verse quote in order to somehow .....avoid what Pauls saying ?



      “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

      For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

      Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

      But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


      Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

      And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

      And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

      Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

      Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

      Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

      And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.”
      ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-21, 23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

      Do you sort of think a chapter like this .....sounds a bit like an echoe of the sermon on the mount ? What if we examine elsewhere in the epistles of Paul ? Would we find really vast amounts of truth and knowledge ,...that actually doesn't say " saved by grace " but says things like what's now expected of you ...because Jesus Christ gave great suffering , shame , and eventually his own precious life .....so you can be saved , and be called a child of God . Notice if you accept just what is there not a verse that you agree with , and sounds meaningless and effortless requiring nothing real of you , then your thinking about the gospel , about salvation ....begins to change or " conform " to Gods true word ,

      ,,,,but if the response is " that is not for me I don't need to ever hear something like this I'm saved by grace " or if you look for another verse elsewhere seeming to contradict .....you then are removing the context and meaning of the verse . There's no understanding about grace and salvation , just by saying I'm saved by grace , now I'll never accept another word from the same bible , same letter Paul wrote to the church ...there's no way for the word to work in us like that , we have to believe the things we don't want to accept in order to come to repentance and life , that parts important because ...as the same apostle Paul taught elsewhere to the church ....

      “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
      ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

      Again same thing Jesus taught first....but you see this is a call to repentance for those who will hear and believe ....This is how faith changes us ,me accept the things that seem to hurt or sting because we know it means we need to move into true repentance ....if we continually reject things that don't make us feel comfortable , we end up with a distorted view and understanding , simply because we refuse to believe the word of God , which is how he works in a believer to bring righteousness and salvation ....

      “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
      ‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJ


      if if we never believe we need repentance , we will never do it the flesh love sin too much , if we first hear and believe the truth about it from Gods word .....then we can accept , or reject it and this shapes faith . You have to be willing to hear the word of righteousness .....or you can never believe the work God is willing to do in us , circumsizing the heart , and those roots of lust , pride , greed , vanity .....the things the flesh just adores and hungers for ...take up the two edged sword into the heart and believe ....expect things to change though as your faith grows it's not always pleasant , and your not going to hell when you stumble and fall , or lose heart and begin to sink .....Jesus will never condemn those who hear the truth and follow where he leads ...

      God bless you in the abundance of Jesus Christ ......consider reading Paul , in chapters , and sections rather than single verses and I believe that understanding will begin in someone willing to accept what they find even if they don't agree or haven't heard it before .....Pauls epistles are wonderfully full of spiritual truth and salvation .....because it's the same understandings Jesus preached and sent out his disciples .....to preach

      The answer to your question is simple. The Chapter you quoted, Chapter 3 of Colossians, concerns hat the Christian must DO AFTER CONVERSION. The contents of the book of Colossians is addressed to, "... the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Colossians 1:2). They are ALREADY SAVED. The Book concerns their BEHAVIOR AFTER salvation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Follower, this is the same drumbeat you've been engaging in elsewhere, and you still don't seem to understand the rebuttal. It isn't that words of exhortation, words of obedience, and Christian works are being denied, or that those who believe in Grace must look elsewhere to avoid such exhortations. No, it is that you are *reading into* these exhortations something that is not there. You are saying that Christian exhortation excludes Christian Grace such that it is Christian Works that Save us, and not the Blood of Christ.

        I do believe that communicating this is what serves to bring us to this kind of discussion, because many do not know how to explain Christian Works in the light of Christian Grace. But I assure you, Christian Works are always needed in order for us to participate in Salvation, but not in order to do the Work of Salvation, which belonged to Christ alone.

        We participate in our Salvation simply by accepting it, by repenting of our sins, and by embracing Christ as our Substitute. But in participating we are just receiving the Work of Christ as the basis of our Redemption. We are *not* redeeming ourselves! Until you understand this, or can at least repeat the argument, you're not going to get it.

        Christ redeemed us. That was his Work alone, and that alone was the Work of Salvation. Our role is to receive that Salvation, and to do the Work of Receiving it, obeying it, and allowing it to transform us into the image of Christ.

        We receive Christ's Spirit. Our own spirit is insufficient to produce the righteousness that God desires. God does not desire independence or autonomy from us. He desires participation in His own Spirit, and in the righteousness of Christ, which he freely offers to those willing to receive it and to act upon it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Walls View Post

          The answer to your question is simple. The Chapter you quoted, Chapter 3 of Colossians, concerns hat the Christian must DO AFTER CONVERSION. The contents of the book of Colossians is addressed to, "... the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Colossians 1:2). They are ALREADY SAVED. The Book concerns their BEHAVIOR AFTER salvation.
          thats the answer lol?

          Uh , yeah Pauls letters were written to those who believe in Jesus Christ .pim not sure the point...so to the church whether Colossians or Ephesians , Galatians , Corinthians ...it's to the same church , the same gospel . Same message

          Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

          Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

          And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

          if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
          ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:19, 22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

          why is Paul saying such a thing ? it's about calling believers to repentance so they can be saved ...whether Jesus , Peter , John , Paul....same gospel or repentance and life through grace. Let's examine what Paul wrote rather than you explaining were saved ..nothing applies . Let's try ...Ephesians

          “Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

          For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

          Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”

          ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


          seems he's giving the church an important warning , that could cause them to lose thier inheritance ....what if instead of rejecting it , they believed ? Would they maybe start thinking I need to repent ? If they accepted and believed it I mean ?

          seems like he's warning the church that if they continue on living in sin , the wrath of God which is coming ' can also include them , he's warning them " don't be deceived and become partakers of wrath with them "

          how bout Romans ? Galatians ?

          “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
          ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

          “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
          ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


          Sooo how do we exclude and explain away the many teachings in Pauls epistles like these ? seems it's in every epistle , or what about Paul teaching the chirch about eternal jidgement based on whether they followed the gospel ...or rejected it ? Jew or gentile ? I'm not sure grace saves us if it doesn't lead to real repentance .

          see romans chapter two to understand grace , forebearance ...is meant to lead a believer to Reoentance , so they can be saved , grace isn't to allow sinners to live in sin and be saved ....but to bring us to Reoentance . The foundation of God is the same

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by randyk View Post
            Follower, this is the same drumbeat you've been engaging in elsewhere, and you still don't seem to understand the rebuttal. It isn't that words of exhortation, words of obedience, and Christian works are being denied, or that those who believe in Grace must look elsewhere to avoid such exhortations. No, it is that you are *reading into* these exhortations something that is not there. You are saying that Christian exhortation excludes Christian Grace such that it is Christian Works that Save us, and not the Blood of Christ.

            I do believe that communicating this is what serves to bring us to this kind of discussion, because many do not know how to explain Christian Works in the light of Christian Grace. But I assure you, Christian Works are always needed in order for us to participate in Salvation, but not in order to do the Work of Salvation, which belonged to Christ alone.

            We participate in our Salvation simply by accepting it, by repenting of our sins, and by embracing Christ as our Substitute. But in participating we are just receiving the Work of Christ as the basis of our Redemption. We are *not* redeeming ourselves! Until you understand this, or can at least repeat the argument, you're not going to get it.

            Christ redeemed us. That was his Work alone, and that alone was the Work of Salvation. Our role is to receive that Salvation, and to do the Work of Receiving it, obeying it, and allowing it to transform us into the image of Christ.

            We receive Christ's Spirit. Our own spirit is insufficient to produce the righteousness that God desires. God does not desire independence or autonomy from us. He desires participation in His own Spirit, and in the righteousness of Christ, which he freely offers to those willing to receive it and to act upon it.


            randy we've been through this , I believe what the scripture teaches .....you don't buy that type of belief . you want a spirit without receiving it through the word , which is the only source of his spirit . We don't say grace and now we have the Holy Spirit . You receive the spirit the way Jesus Christ said you receive it . There is absolutely no other way , to receive his Holy Spirit but the way he himself explained thoroughly .

            Receiving the holy spiritual is not salvation , accepting and following the spirit is salvation . You cannot seperate the words of Jesus Christ , and his spirit it is not possible to do so. The holy spiritual comes one way and those who will receive and follow the spirit will be saved

            But to say " follow the spirit " really has no meaning unless you then go learn what that means according to scripture . but as you and I have had several discussions ...it's fruitless between us because I believe what's written and stick to that ......you don't really talk much about what the bible says .....so it's hard for me to ever find any fruit and agreement with you . Not saying that to offend m but it's just the truth , I believe the things the gospel , the epistles after whether Paul Peter John ... Doesn't matter it's all the same gospel being witnessed by the apostles .

            the he difference is though , you can be completely corrected by plain scripture .....and you act as if you didn't read the scripture and continue with the mysticism type stuff . the Holy Spirit will always stick to the things Jesus Christ taught , always bring those things into remembrance . And yeah randy , you will always here the same " drumbeat " from me , it will always and forever be singing as loud as possible " if anyone wants to be saved and given eternal life , go learn the things in the four accounts of the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ and believe those things , and also don't let anyone explain to you that it's not true and not for you " it's ... A classic tune

            Comment


            • #7
              more examples of things no one ever speaks of but Paul taught thoroughly ....

              For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
              ‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


              "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

              Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

              To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

              But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

              But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

              In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

              ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

              Notice when people explain it doesn't apply to eternal life ...or " salvation" but clearly , Pauls saying it does .

              He repeatedly referring back to this understanding ....

              “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
              ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

              Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
              ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


              “But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
              ‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV


              These things like this in Pauls doctrine , go right beside the things he says of grace . He teaches grace , and truth like Jesus did same gospel. Paul teaching grace and truth like all the above scriptures , is what brings to repentance , when you believe , and then you acknowledge the truth about repentance and Gods word. Paul out several safe guards in his writings so they wouldn't be distorted into a liscense for ongoing sin, because grace is a liscense to repent and be free from sins dominion , not a free pass to continue in service to satans will which is sin.

              There are two versions of Grace , what's Paul taught was the grace of God , that brings Reoentance and life ....men see his letters . Pluck the grace verses out from the truth ... And it creates grace that says " sin is not big deal , no one really repents it's impossible , you can never lose salvation no matter what you do ...the apostle Paul the apostle Paul ......but the apostle Paul taught the gospe, of grace and truth that brings Reoentance through faith ...when we cut out the parts that teach Reoentance and righteousness , the truth that we are going to be judged according to,our deeds which we refuse to repent of , and sadly as he makes clear , each man will bow and confess ire life's work before God .........this moment however is not between you , me , and God , but between you and the lord .......if you accept his jidgement now , you are bound for glory ....if you reject the everlasting gospel ....you are rejecting salvation.

              "Truth ...." shall we sin because we are under grace ? God forbid! Don't you know whoever you offer yourselves to obey, his servants you are who you obey ? Whether sin into death , or obedience unto righteousness and eternal life ?"

              v fallacy " shall we acknowledge our sins under grace ? No, we should pretend we haven't sinned because grace means sin no longer applies were already saved no matter what we do "

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                more examples of things no one ever speaks of but Paul taught thoroughly ....

                For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
                ‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


                "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

                Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

                To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

                But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

                But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

                In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

                ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                Notice when people explain it doesn't apply to eternal life ...or " salvation" but clearly , Pauls saying it does .

                He repeatedly referring back to this understanding ....

                “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
                ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
                ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


                “But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
                ‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV


                These things like this in Pauls doctrine , go right beside the things he says of grace . He teaches grace , and truth like Jesus did same gospel. Paul teaching grace and truth like all the above scriptures , is what brings to repentance , when you believe , and then you acknowledge the truth about repentance and Gods word. Paul out several safe guards in his writings so they wouldn't be distorted into a liscense for ongoing sin, because grace is a liscense to repent and be free from sins dominion , not a free pass to continue in service to satans will which is sin.

                There are two versions of Grace , what's Paul taught was the grace of God , that brings Reoentance and life ....men see his letters . Pluck the grace verses out from the truth ... And it creates grace that says " sin is not big deal , no one really repents it's impossible , you can never lose salvation no matter what you do ...the apostle Paul the apostle Paul ......but the apostle Paul taught the gospe, of grace and truth that brings Reoentance through faith ...when we cut out the parts that teach Reoentance and righteousness , the truth that we are going to be judged according to,our deeds which we refuse to repent of , and sadly as he makes clear , each man will bow and confess ire life's work before God .........this moment however is not between you , me , and God , but between you and the lord .......if you accept his jidgement now , you are bound for glory ....if you reject the everlasting gospel ....you are rejecting salvation.

                "Truth ...." shall we sin because we are under grace ? God forbid! Don't you know whoever you offer yourselves to obey, his servants you are who you obey ? Whether sin into death , or obedience unto righteousness and eternal life ?"

                v fallacy " shall we acknowledge our sins under grace ? No, we should pretend we haven't sinned because grace means sin no longer applies were already saved no matter what we do "
                O.K. You have posted much, and made some scriptures red and bold and oversize. But the one thing you have not done, is define "salvation". That could save you such long posts, and narrow down the discussion. What is salvation? Please don't give scriptures on HOW to be saved. Tell me what salvation is - with scriptures.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Taste and see that He is good.1 Peter 2:3-10
                  Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                  Yes I do understand the quotes like " we're saved by grace , not of works lest any should boast , you are his workmanship created in Christ , ...but ...
                  But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; James 1


                  Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.
                  Originally posted by Walls View Post
                  O.K. You have posted much, and made some scriptures red and bold and oversize. But the one thing you have not done, is define "salvation". That could save you such long posts, and narrow down the discussion. What is salvation? Please don't give scriptures on HOW to be saved. Tell me what salvation is - with scriptures.
                  He has given assurance of [salvation] to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17:30-32

                  'And in your Seed all the families of the earth [are] blessed.' Acts 3:24-26,
                  Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:21
                  Giving thanks to the Father...Colossians 1:12-15

                  As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:23-25

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jake2020 View Post
                    Taste and see that He is good.1 Peter 2:3-10

                    But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; James 1


                    Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.

                    He has given assurance of [salvation] to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17:30-32

                    'And in your Seed all the families of the earth [are] blessed.' Acts 3:24-26,
                    Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:21
                    Giving thanks to the Father...Colossians 1:12-15

                    As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:23-25
                    Yes. Nice verses. But you did not define the "salvation" of the Bible. Is "salvation" ...
                    • To have one's sins forgiven? No, it can't be because forgiveness cannot give eternal life
                    • To have eternal life? No, it can't be because eternal life does not reconcile or justify
                    • To miss the Lake of Fire? Yes, but one is still fallen and a sinner.
                    • To be transformed into the image of Christ? No, because what is the use of that if one is dead in the grave?
                    • Baptism? After all 1st Peter 3:20-21 says we are "saved by water" - the figure of Baptism!
                    Christians all over talk of "salvation" - and we are, and will be saved - but they won't define it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

                      Originally posted by Walls View Post
                      Yes. Nice verses. But you did not define the "salvation" of the Bible. Is "salvation" ...
                      • To have one's sins forgiven? No, it can't be because forgiveness cannot give eternal life
                      • To have eternal life? No, it can't be because eternal life does not reconcile or justify
                      • To miss the Lake of Fire? Yes, but one is still fallen and a sinner.
                      • To be transformed into the image of Christ? No, because what is the use of that if one is dead in the grave?
                      • Baptism? After all 1st Peter 3:20-21 says we are "saved by water" - the figure of Baptism!
                      Christians all over talk of "salvation" - and we are, and will be saved - but they won't define it.
                      This isn't rocket science Walls. If you are joined to Christ, you are saved. If you are separated from Christ, you are without hope, without God.


                      The Lord Helps His People
                      Salvation belongs to the Lord. Your blessing is upon Your people. Psalm 3:8

                      I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart; I have declared Your faithfulness and Your Salvation. Psalm 40:10

                      May Your salvation be known among all nations. Let the peoples praise You, O God.
                      For You shall judge the people righteously
                      God, our own God, shall bless us. Psalm 67

                      Oh, sing to the Lord a new song! Sing to the Lord, all the earth.
                      Sing to the Lord, bless His name; Proclaim the good news of His salvation...Psalm 96:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jake2020 View Post
                        And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.



                        This isn't rocket science Walls. If you are joined to Christ you are saved. If you are separated from Christ, you are without hope, without God.


                        The Lord Helps His People
                        Salvation belongs to the Lord. Your blessing is upon Your people. Psalm 3:8

                        I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart; I have declared Your faithfulness and Your Salvation. Psalm 40:10

                        May Your salvation be known among all nations. Let the peoples praise You, O God.
                        For You shall judge the people righteously
                        God, our own God, shall bless us. Psalm 67

                        Oh, sing to the Lord a new song! Sing to the Lord, all the earth.
                        Sing to the Lord, bless His name; Proclaim the good news of His salvation...Psalm 96:
                        O.K. Thanks for the reply. Go well bro.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Walls View Post

                          O.K. You have posted much, and made some scriptures red and bold and oversize. But the one thing you have not done, is define "salvation". That could save you such long posts, and narrow down the discussion. What is salvation? Please don't give scriptures on HOW to be saved. Tell me what salvation is - with scriptures.

                          Walls you are absolutely free to ignore my posts if the way I present them offends or isn't up to your standard my friend ...I wouldn't hold any offense at all . why do you Never discus the actual post ? you simply ignore the post , and then explain a whole bunch of theological thoughts I'm honestly not here to discuss what I think and you think , but what the bible says about things . I'd love to actually discuss with you or anyone , to discuss a post filled with scripture ....would be absolutely great . Again though I appreciate any thoughts you wish yo leave ever....but also if you or anyone else dont feel like reading the things I post , it's no offense either way to me and shouldn't be to anyone else not to even read them .....I'm okay with that ...but I'm just gonna write the way I do so ....I'm. It looking for the arguments and snide remarks ...I apologize for any offense I've given you in any other post ....but sometimes it's better to just agree to disagree and find other believers which I'm positive you are ....that were more in line with in discussion . Maybe I'm just not on your level or some other folks level of understanding these revelations of what all of this stuff means ....that's very possible ...but I'm still gonna just post when I have free time , and hope for some edifying conversation from you or anyone ...but also , I'm okay without it . AGod bless either way he loves you and also me .

                          If your asking me ...I'm telling you and will always say the same things ....salvation is the exact same as Jesus Christ said it is in the everlasting gospel . Discussion of sthe scriptures is great , that's what I'd love .....indpstead usually a lone post about why all that scripture is irrelevant ....and then an explaination with very little if any scripture ....explaining why the mass amounts of repetwtive scripture has it all wrong ....or another argument about how the gospel is the law of Moses , or how the gospel isn't the real gospel , or how the words of Jesus no longer apply ....all of those things are very clearly refuted in the scripture . So what do you make of the scripture in the op ? That's sort of what the point of the post is ....do those things apply also ?

                          The gospel is salvation , the gospel is what Jesus Christ was annointed with the spirit to preach to the world first to Israel , then sent one who believed , out to preach to anyone who would believe ....the same gospel in your bible recorded four times over Matthew mark Luke John .....to believe Jesus according to his own words , the way the gospel presents him ...is salvation

                          What we have done though....is eliminated the gospel and claim it's. It the real gospel ....were saved by grace , or else were saved by works ....but we're not ....were saved by faith in the word of God , that produces the right works in us because we believe ...again like the four soils ...which you have excluded from the gospel ...in a different post already so ,.....it's hard to discuss scripture when what the other person does is simply explain why it doesn't apply ...when the scripture all says repetetively , Jesus , Paul , Peter , James , John ...all the prophets and the law ....all of it says to believe the words of Jesus Christ ,mand if you do .....those words will reach a person salvation ....repentance , actual righteousness , from within which produces the right things .....the right things , Gods will for mankind are the teachings of Jesus Christ , that is our place to abide in the word of the kingdom , that's the gospel and to accept and believe it is salvation you don't have to be perfect , you have to repent in the mind and heart and then believe the gospel.....we can't obey things we refuse to hear ..is the issue , hardly any even believes the gospel ....is the gospel ....there are four full accounts of the gospe, , called the gospel according to Matthew , mark Luke and John , and then he says go into all the world , preach the same gospel I have preached to you to everyone in the world ....whoever will believe will be saved whoever denies will be damned

                          Its about faith in Jesus Christ bro ....we have to believe the one we claim to have faith in believe what God sent him to the earth to teach the children of God ...as soon as John was imprisoned ....Jesus wuotes Isaiah 61 and then begins preaching the gospel .....it's the doctrine of salvation he promised in the prophets that will never change , never fade , or pass away , the doctrine that would cause righteousness to spring forth in believers .....that's all in the prophets clearly . And the gospel even clearer , and the epistles just as clear as the gospel ....salvation is to go and learn from Jesus because we believe in him......we can do this because he died for our sins , so we could approach God and be redeemed from sin and be saved .....





                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Walls View Post

                            The answer to your question is simple. The Chapter you quoted, Chapter 3 of Colossians, concerns hat the Christian must DO AFTER CONVERSION. The contents of the book of Colossians is addressed to, "... the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Colossians 1:2). They are ALREADY SAVED. The Book concerns their BEHAVIOR AFTER salvation.

                            walls lys you say here this happens after salvation that we " must " do it all after salvation ? So then what happens if someone is " saved " and then refuses to do anything the gospel reaches ? Are they still " saved " ?

                            Also what at do you think salvation is ? I mean to ask ....what are we being saved from ? And why do we need " salvation" and " reconciliation " ? Is that just how God created us ? Or is there a reason we need to be saved by Jesus ? Why would God put his own son to death ? What sense does that make ? I thought he was a loving father ? Why would he have his son suffer so greatly ? And how does that save us ?


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post


                              Walls you are absolutely free to ignore my posts if the way I present them offends or isn't up to your standard my friend ...I wouldn't hold any offense at all . why do you Never discus the actual post ? you simply ignore the post , and then explain a whole bunch of theological thoughts I'm honestly not here to discuss what I think and you think , but what the bible says about things . I'd love to actually discuss with you or anyone , to discuss a post filled with scripture ....would be absolutely great . Again though I appreciate any thoughts you wish yo leave ever....but also if you or anyone else dont feel like reading the things I post , it's no offense either way to me and shouldn't be to anyone else not to even read them .....I'm okay with that ...but I'm just gonna write the way I do so ....I'm. It looking for the arguments and snide remarks ...I apologize for any offense I've given you in any other post ....but sometimes it's better to just agree to disagree and find other believers which I'm positive you are ....that were more in line with in discussion . Maybe I'm just not on your level or some other folks level of understanding these revelations of what all of this stuff means ....that's very possible ...but I'm still gonna just post when I have free time , and hope for some edifying conversation from you or anyone ...but also , I'm okay without it . AGod bless either way he loves you and also me .

                              If your asking me ...I'm telling you and will always say the same things ....salvation is the exact same as Jesus Christ said it is in the everlasting gospel . Discussion of sthe scriptures is great , that's what I'd love .....indpstead usually a lone post about why all that scripture is irrelevant ....and then an explaination with very little if any scripture ....explaining why the mass amounts of repetwtive scripture has it all wrong ....or another argument about how the gospel is the law of Moses , or how the gospel isn't the real gospel , or how the words of Jesus no longer apply ....all of those things are very clearly refuted in the scripture . So what do you make of the scripture in the op ? That's sort of what the point of the post is ....do those things apply also ?

                              The gospel is salvation , the gospel is what Jesus Christ was annointed with the spirit to preach to the world first to Israel , then sent one who believed , out to preach to anyone who would believe ....the same gospel in your bible recorded four times over Matthew mark Luke John .....to believe Jesus according to his own words , the way the gospel presents him ...is salvation

                              What we have done though....is eliminated the gospel and claim it's. It the real gospel ....were saved by grace , or else were saved by works ....but we're not ....were saved by faith in the word of God , that produces the right works in us because we believe ...again like the four soils ...which you have excluded from the gospel ...in a different post already so ,.....it's hard to discuss scripture when what the other person does is simply explain why it doesn't apply ...when the scripture all says repetetively , Jesus , Paul , Peter , James , John ...all the prophets and the law ....all of it says to believe the words of Jesus Christ ,mand if you do .....those words will reach a person salvation ....repentance , actual righteousness , from within which produces the right things .....the right things , Gods will for mankind are the teachings of Jesus Christ , that is our place to abide in the word of the kingdom , that's the gospel and to accept and believe it is salvation you don't have to be perfect , you have to repent in the mind and heart and then believe the gospel.....we can't obey things we refuse to hear ..is the issue , hardly any even believes the gospel ....is the gospel ....there are four full accounts of the gospe, , called the gospel according to Matthew , mark Luke and John , and then he says go into all the world , preach the same gospel I have preached to you to everyone in the world ....whoever will believe will be saved whoever denies will be damned

                              Its about faith in Jesus Christ bro ....we have to believe the one we claim to have faith in believe what God sent him to the earth to teach the children of God ...as soon as John was imprisoned ....Jesus wuotes Isaiah 61 and then begins preaching the gospel .....it's the doctrine of salvation he promised in the prophets that will never change , never fade , or pass away , the doctrine that would cause righteousness to spring forth in believers .....that's all in the prophets clearly . And the gospel even clearer , and the epistles just as clear as the gospel ....salvation is to go and learn from Jesus because we believe in him......we can do this because he died for our sins , so we could approach God and be redeemed from sin and be saved .....




                              Thank you. You have made it perfectly clear that no discussion is desired. I'll honor that.

                              Comment

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