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  • the Work of Christ alone

    There is this regular confusion about the role we play in our own Salvation. Do we save ourselves, or did Christ alone save us?

    Obviously, we would recognize, if we are doctrinally-orthodox Christians, that Christ alone saved us, and that we cannot save ourselves. But the question of how we participate in our own salvation is different. Nobody should seriously question whether we participate in Christian righteousness, if this is what we mean by "Salvation." We obviously have to receive Christ's Salvation, and we certainly must respond to the offer of this Salvation by repenting of going our own way and choosing to live the Christian way.

    So yes, we participate in Salvation, but we cannot hope to have anything to do with the exclusive Work of Christ in providing for our Salvation. So what is this "Work of Christ" that alone saved us? It is the work on the cross, in which a perfect sacrifice had to be offered, from heaven, to atone for our sins. It was nothing less than God's Son coming to earth to provide us with eternal life, while having to pay the price of coming to this sinful world and suffering from sinful men.

    That alone is the Work of Salvation, which Christ alone could accomplish. Only he was God's Son, and only he was unblemished by human sin. He was thus exclusively qualified to win our Salvation. He represented nothing less than God's exclusive means of giving us His own love and grace in a time when humanity was flawed and worthy of being separated from God's Kingdom. Christ came to offer God's Kingdom back to men, so that we could be cleansed of our rebellion.

    So Christ alone could do the Work of Salvation. But we participate by accepting what Christ has given to us, which is the means of repentance and living in righteousness. In this we are not redeeming ourselves but taking God up on His offer of Salvation, which does require our participation through repentance and through obedience to His word.

  • #2
    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    There is this regular confusion about the role we play in our own Salvation. Do we save ourselves, or did Christ alone save us?
    ...
    So Christ alone could do the Work of Salvation. But we participate by accepting what Christ has given to us, which is the means of repentance and living in righteousness. In this we are not redeeming ourselves but taking God up on His offer of Salvation, which does require our participation through repentance and through obedience to His word.
    You would then believe in synergism as opposed to monergism regarding your form of soteriology. Ain't that a mouthful! lol Me too.

    We can not save ourselves. God has acted unilaterally and preemptively regarding the revelation of His plan of salvation for humanity. Belief by the individual as the proper response for receiving the Gospel of Jesus Christ (God's plan) is not a work, but does form the synergistic view. The monergistic view is that belief is given by God by via regeneration of those chosen to receive the Gospel.
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

      You would then believe in synergism as opposed to monergism regarding your form of soteriology. Ain't that a mouthful! lol Me too.

      We can not save ourselves. God has acted unilaterally and preemptively regarding the revelation of His plan of salvation for humanity. Belief by the individual as the proper response for receiving the Gospel of Jesus Christ (God's plan) is not a work, but does form the synergistic view. The monergistic view is that belief is given by God by via regeneration of those chosen to receive the Gospel.
      I have been, for many years, a Predestinarian, or Calvinist--with a caveat. I do believe in free will. So in some sense you may rightly believe my view is at least partly synergism.

      But let me put this in my own words. Confusing one language with another is often the cause of adversarial theologies. When I refer to the "exclusive Work of Christ," I'm talking about redemption, or the paying of a price to grant us eternal life. We could never pay that price. Only Christ could. Christ had to bring the righteousness down from heaven that grants men eternal life. Nobody here on earth can achieve that, since we've inherited a sin nature that is disallowed from having eternal life.

      But if we talk about how we obtain Salvation, and whether we play a part in obtaining our Salvation, I'd have to say yes--we must *accept* of our own free will this Salvation being offered us by Christ. Unless we actually receive it, we don't have it. So Christ may very well have purchased eternal life for us, and for all mankind, but Salvation does not actually occur until we choose to receive it. Those who are severely brain-injured and still-born babies fall into a different category.

      As a predestinarian I believe God has predetermined those who are inclined to receive this Salvation. Those who are not so inclined were *added* to God's original plan, and "planted by the Devil." Nevertheless, all of humanity have the opportunity to partake of God's offer of eternal life. It's just that those not so inclined will *not* accept it. What they can do, however, is take advantage of God's free gift of life and use it to produce righteousness, as all men were called to do.

      God wants more from us than just doing righteousness--He wants to give us eternal life, or eternal fellowship with Himself. Those who choose to do right and not live in close fellowship with God will not have eternal life, but certainly will live forever in a better state than otherwise.

      Since these things are hard to understand, I remain open to whatever the Holy Spirit wishes to show me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by randyk View Post

        I have been, for many years, a Predestinarian, or Calvinist--with a caveat. I do believe in free will. So in some sense you may rightly believe my view is at least partly synergism.
        ...
        Since these things are hard to understand, I remain open to whatever the Holy Spirit wishes to show me.
        That is a good attitude to have!
        Watchinginawe

        I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          ...if we talk about how we obtain Salvation, and whether we play a part in obtaining our Salvation, I'd have to say yes--we must *accept* of our own free will this Salvation being offered us by Christ. Unless we actually receive it, we don't have it. So Christ may very well have purchased eternal life for us, and for all mankind, but Salvation does not actually occur until we choose to receive it.[
          Hello Randy, while I agree that we both choose to believe and are, in fact, the ones who do the believing (when we exercise the "gift" of saving faith that God gives to all who will be His .. Ephesians 2:8), I also believe that God is much more involved in the process than many are willing to give Him credit for. After all, while the Lord Jesus made it clear that no one can come to Him for salvation apart from His Father's "drawing" of them .. John 6:44, 65, He also tells us (concerning these "drawn" ones) that:

          John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
          ALL that the Father gives Me WILL come to Me, and .. of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.

          So if........
          .
          1. ONLY the ones who are "drawn" by the Father can come to Jesus, and
          2. ALL who are so drawn WILL choose to come, believe and be saved by Him

          .............what do you think that means? How does God accomplish this if we are the ones who choose to believe (and since we know that salvation is not universal)?

          Thanks!

          --Deuteronomy
          p.s. - I wanted to talk about the idea of our being righteous as well, but I'll leave that for another post (except for this):


          quote-my-hope-lives-not-because-i-am-not-a-sinner-but-because-i-am-a-sinner-for-whom-christ-charles-spurgeon-57-36-33.jpg


          He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
          so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

          2 Corinthians 5:21
          .
          Matthew 5
          16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


          Matthew 7
          12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


          1 Corinthians 13
          1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

          1 Peter 3
          15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by randyk View Post

            I have been, for many years, a Predestinarian, or Calvinist--with a caveat. I do believe in free will. So in some sense you may rightly believe my view is at least partly synergism.

            .
            I am happy to inform you, that you can't possibly be a Calvinist, as you don't agree with the foundation of Calvin's doctrine.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pbminimum View Post

              I am happy to inform you, that you can't possibly be a Calvinist, as you don't agree with the foundation of Calvin's doctrine.
              I was going to post about how many "points" a Calvinist one might be, but thought better about it. randyk probably identifies with one or more "points" of the Calvinist doctrine.

              Should we indulge?
              Watchinginawe

              I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                I was going to post about how many "points" a Calvinist one might be, but thought better about it. randyk probably identifies with one or more "points" of the Calvinist doctrine.

                Should we indulge?
                I think it would be a good conversation to have.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by randyk View Post

                  I have been, for many years, a Predestinarian, or Calvinist--with a caveat. I do believe in free will. So in some sense you may rightly believe my view is at least partly synergism.

                  But let me put this in my own words. Confusing one language with another is often the cause of adversarial theologies. When I refer to the "exclusive Work of Christ," I'm talking about redemption, or the paying of a price to grant us eternal life. We could never pay that price. Only Christ could. Christ had to bring the righteousness down from heaven that grants men eternal life. Nobody here on earth can achieve that, since we've inherited a sin nature that is disallowed from having eternal life.

                  But if we talk about how we obtain Salvation, and whether we play a part in obtaining our Salvation, I'd have to say yes--we must *accept* of our own free will this Salvation being offered us by Christ. Unless we actually receive it, we don't have it. So Christ may very well have purchased eternal life for us, and for all mankind, but Salvation does not actually occur until we choose to receive it. Those who are severely brain-injured and still-born babies fall into a different category.

                  As a predestinarian I believe God has predetermined those who are inclined to receive this Salvation. Those who are not so inclined were *added* to God's original plan, and "planted by the Devil." Nevertheless, all of humanity have the opportunity to partake of God's offer of eternal life. It's just that those not so inclined will *not* accept it. What they can do, however, is take advantage of God's free gift of life and use it to produce righteousness, as all men were called to do.

                  God wants more from us than just doing righteousness--He wants to give us eternal life, or eternal fellowship with Himself. Those who choose to do right and not live in close fellowship with God will not have eternal life, but certainly will live forever in a better state than otherwise.

                  Since these things are hard to understand, I remain open to whatever the Holy Spirit wishes to show me.
                  Does Scripture say that salvation if offered, or is Christ i.e. His Gospel, that which is offered? If salvation is offered, then yes it would behoove man to make the right choice to be saved. But what does Scripture tell us? Go unto all the world preaching the Gospel, and whosoever believes will be saved by grace through faith. It seems to me then that the Gospel, or message about the Savior; Christ Jesus our Lord, is to be offered unto all mankind, and through that message God will grant eternal life to whoever believes by grace through faith that is found in Christ.

                  Jo 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

                  So God does the work in saving us, through Christ. He does this not by might, not by power, not with our help, but by His Spirit and Word. When we hear the message about Christ and freely respond to Him through repentance and faith, it was only possible by the power of God working in us. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pbminimum View Post

                    I think it would be a good conversation to have.
                    OK, so here we go.

                    Calvinism as a comprehensive doctrine of how God saves us (soteriology) is commonly represented by five points, T-U-L-I-P, or simply TULIP. Each point of the doctrine is tightly linked with all the other points. Regardless, many Calvinists will claim to be a "3 point Calvinist" or a "4 point Calvinist" and thus not wholly convicted of one or more of the "points". I will list all five and I encourage anyone who believes I have misrepresented the doctrine to correct them or explain them in more detail.

                    T - Total Depravity
                    In the shortest form, Total Depravity means that humanity is sinful and separated from God and there is nothing an individual can do unilaterally to remedy the condition. We are all condemned before God at the judgment. Calvinism goes a bit further with the "total" portion of this and states that humanity is completely enslaved to sin and is spiritually dead. In this condition, the human is not capable of considering the Gospel or believing on Jesus Christ. Their depravity is "total" and there is no hope of their condition. To the extent that humanity has a "free will", it is captured and enslaved to sin and unable to lift one self to the extent of believing on Jesus Christ, or really even hearing and considering anything of God. Humanity is at enmity with God.

                    U - Unconditional Election
                    Unconditional Election is the doctrine of The Elect and is what many refer to as "predestination" and when all five points accepted of the doctrine really results in "double predestination", whereby before God even created humanity that He decreed who among those He would create that would be saved and by exclusion decreed who would not be saved. Those who would be saved comprise The Elect. Those who would not be saved comprise The Reprobate. Thus, individuals of humanity have no will in the matter, their fate is completely predetermined by God before creation. Calvin referred to this as "God's horrible decree", meaning not that God is horrible, but the revelation of the matter to The Elect stands out as such to them. Additionally, in the orthodox form of Calvinism, God's "foreknowledge" of the matter is because He knows who He predetermined to be of the Elect, thus God knows before creation who of humanity comprises The Elect.

                    L - Limited Atonement
                    The atonement accomplished by Jesus' death on the cross on behalf of humanity as the only potential remedy for sin is "limited" to those predetermined by God as The Elect. Jesus' atonement in some forms of Calvinism (particularly the Penal Substitutional Theory of Atonement) is exactly equal to the price or penalty for the sins of The Elect alone. Thus, Jesus dies as the propitiate for sin of The Elect alone and not The Reprobate. In some views, the atonement of Jesus is sufficient for all humanity but limited or applicable to The Elect alone. In any case, Jesus' death on the cross accomplishes God's will in the matter, redeeming His Elect alone.

                    I - Irresistible Grace
                    Because humanity is born enslaved to sin and in a totally depraved state, God must first Spiritually "regenerate" an individual to as it were remove the spiritual blindfold from their eyes and to unstop their ears to hear and respond to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Once regenerated, the Gospel is always received 100% of the time by members of The Elect as an irresistible reunion with God. Once an individual's will has been freed from their totally depraved condition via regeneration, they are instantly fit to hear and receive God's grace which since being fit will always respond accordingly. The timing of this is completely up to God and there is no seeking or introspection of the individual possible before first being regenerated.

                    P - Perseverance (or Preservation) of the Saints
                    Once God has regenerated one of The Elect and once they have received the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God then continues within the individual to bring them through to the end. All those of The Elect will persevere to the end 100% of the time. Some refer to this doctrine as OSAS, or Once Saved Always Saved.

                    It is probably worth the time to consider the Five Remonstrances, but I will wait a couple of days to see if someone else wants to offer a post on them.
                    Watchinginawe

                    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello watchinginawe, I think you've done an excellent job explaining TULIP, so thank you for that.

                      I was going to make a quick comment about perseverance, but I've decided that there's no reason to.

                      God bless you!
                      (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)

                      ~Deut
                      p.s. - I will post this portion of the WCF however, as it may prove to be useful.

                      .
                      .
                      Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints

                      Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

                      Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

                      Section III.Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.
                      ~Westminster Confession of Faith
                      .

                      Matthew 5
                      16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


                      Matthew 7
                      12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


                      1 Corinthians 13
                      1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                      1 Peter 3
                      15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by randyk View Post

                        I have been, for many years, a Predestinarian, or Calvinist--with a caveat. I do believe in free will. So in some sense you may rightly believe my view is at least partly synergism.

                        But let me put this in my own words. Confusing one language with another is often the cause of adversarial theologies. When I refer to the "exclusive Work of Christ," I'm talking about redemption, or the paying of a price to grant us eternal life. We could never pay that price. Only Christ could. Christ had to bring the righteousness down from heaven that grants men eternal life. Nobody here on earth can achieve that, since we've inherited a sin nature that is disallowed from having eternal life.

                        But if we talk about how we obtain Salvation, and whether we play a part in obtaining our Salvation, I'd have to say yes--we must *accept* of our own free will this Salvation being offered us by Christ. Unless we actually receive it, we don't have it. So Christ may very well have purchased eternal life for us, and for all mankind, but Salvation does not actually occur until we choose to receive it. Those who are severely brain-injured and still-born babies fall into a different category.

                        As a predestinarian I believe God has predetermined those who are inclined to receive this Salvation. Those who are not so inclined were *added* to God's original plan, and "planted by the Devil." Nevertheless, all of humanity have the opportunity to partake of God's offer of eternal life. It's just that those not so inclined will *not* accept it. What they can do, however, is take advantage of God's free gift of life and use it to produce righteousness, as all men were called to do.

                        God wants more from us than just doing righteousness--He wants to give us eternal life, or eternal fellowship with Himself. Those who choose to do right and not live in close fellowship with God will not have eternal life, but certainly will live forever in a better state than otherwise.

                        Since these things are hard to understand, I remain open to whatever the Holy Spirit wishes to show me.
                        I am not sure if the way I believe has a term associated with it. But is rather simple to explain.

                        I do not believe that God has pre-determined any of our lives. But I do believe there are many things that are predetermined.

                        I do believe that God is all knowing. God exists outside of jurisdiction of time, space, matter, and dimension. In saying this, it may seem obvious to some, but I also believe that to exist outside of time, means also that God has already seen the other end of time. He knows exactly how things are going to play out.

                        I am one that believes that life is all about choices. He knows the choices we are going to make, before we make them. He knows, when we are going to change our minds.

                        But the kicker is; we do not know the outcome. We only know what is revealed to us, and we react accordingly. Well some may say, then why do anything? Then hasn't God already has decided our outcome?

                        I did not say that God has decided our outcome. I merely said that God knows. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. He will have compassion on whom he will have compassion. God knows our hearts and seeks those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. He is after our heart and will interact with us to put our hearts and minds on him. Scripture even says, "I am a jealous God". Otherwise, he has no use for us.

                        Therefore, we should live and walk as close to Christ as possible, because when we come to a fork in the road, our non-active actions may be the wrong choice and could result in hardship or heartbreak before we get to the next fork in the road in order to correct our bad choice (if God permits). We may not have opportunity to correct. The road may dead end. There may be many forks before we come to one that may correct our course that has resulted in hardship. So when we make choices, they should not be choices made out of anger, jealousy, envy, covertness......

                        But I do believe that God is merciful and gracious and is interactive in our lives. I believe he will open doors of opportunity, he will open our eyes to see things we never saw before, send us dreams, put thoughts in our mind, condemns our hearts, works within us a broken heart and contrite spirit, and is a great shepherd. And also corrects us when we do wrong. But by correction, I do not believe he forces our behavior to change. We have freewill to chose.

                        But as I stated in the beginning; I do believe he already knows what tomorrow will be in each of our lives. Only sad thing is; we do not know. Every choice needs to be based out of a Godly sort; in love, meekness, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, wisdom, knowledge ……

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post

                          OK, so here we go.

                          Calvinism as a comprehensive doctrine of how God saves us (soteriology) is commonly represented by five points, T-U-L-I-P, or simply TULIP. Each point of the doctrine is tightly linked with all the other points. Regardless, many Calvinists will claim to be a "3 point Calvinist" or a "4 point Calvinist" and thus not wholly convicted of one or more of the "points". I will list all five and I encourage anyone who believes I have misrepresented the doctrine to correct them or explain them in more detail.

                          T - Total Depravity
                          In the shortest form, Total Depravity means that humanity is sinful and separated from God and there is nothing an individual can do unilaterally to remedy the condition. We are all condemned before God at the judgment. Calvinism goes a bit further with the "total" portion of this and states that humanity is completely enslaved to sin and is spiritually dead. In this condition, the human is not capable of considering the Gospel or believing on Jesus Christ. Their depravity is "total" and there is no hope of their condition. To the extent that humanity has a "free will", it is captured and enslaved to sin and unable to lift one self to the extent of believing on Jesus Christ, or really even hearing and considering anything of God. Humanity is at enmity with God.

                          U - Unconditional Election
                          Unconditional Election is the doctrine of The Elect and is what many refer to as "predestination" and when all five points accepted of the doctrine really results in "double predestination", whereby before God even created humanity that He decreed who among those He would create that would be saved and by exclusion decreed who would not be saved. Those who would be saved comprise The Elect. Those who would not be saved comprise The Reprobate. Thus, individuals of humanity have no will in the matter, their fate is completely predetermined by God before creation. Calvin referred to this as "God's horrible decree", meaning not that God is horrible, but the revelation of the matter to The Elect stands out as such to them. Additionally, in the orthodox form of Calvinism, God's "foreknowledge" of the matter is because He knows who He predetermined to be of the Elect, thus God knows before creation who of humanity comprises The Elect.

                          L - Limited Atonement
                          The atonement accomplished by Jesus' death on the cross on behalf of humanity as the only potential remedy for sin is "limited" to those predetermined by God as The Elect. Jesus' atonement in some forms of Calvinism (particularly the Penal Substitutional Theory of Atonement) is exactly equal to the price or penalty for the sins of The Elect alone. Thus, Jesus dies as the propitiate for sin of The Elect alone and not The Reprobate. In some views, the atonement of Jesus is sufficient for all humanity but limited or applicable to The Elect alone. In any case, Jesus' death on the cross accomplishes God's will in the matter, redeeming His Elect alone.

                          I - Irresistible Grace
                          Because humanity is born enslaved to sin and in a totally depraved state, God must first Spiritually "regenerate" an individual to as it were remove the spiritual blindfold from their eyes and to unstop their ears to hear and respond to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Once regenerated, the Gospel is always received 100% of the time by members of The Elect as an irresistible reunion with God. Once an individual's will has been freed from their totally depraved condition via regeneration, they are instantly fit to hear and receive God's grace which since being fit will always respond accordingly. The timing of this is completely up to God and there is no seeking or introspection of the individual possible before first being regenerated.

                          P - Perseverance (or Preservation) of the Saints
                          Once God has regenerated one of The Elect and once they have received the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God then continues within the individual to bring them through to the end. All those of The Elect will persevere to the end 100% of the time. Some refer to this doctrine as OSAS, or Once Saved Always Saved.

                          It is probably worth the time to consider the Five Remonstrances, but I will wait a couple of days to see if someone else wants to offer a post on them.
                          My issue with those who identify as "3 or 4 point Calvinist's" is that if you remove one letter of the TULIP, the whole theology doesn't work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by randyk View Post
                            There is this regular confusion about the role we play in our own Salvation. Do we save ourselves, or did Christ alone save us?

                            Obviously, we would recognize, if we are doctrinally-orthodox Christians, that Christ alone saved us, and that we cannot save ourselves. But the question of how we participate in our own salvation is different. Nobody should seriously question whether we participate in Christian righteousness, if this is what we mean by "Salvation." We obviously have to receive Christ's Salvation, and we certainly must respond to the offer of this Salvation by repenting of going our own way and choosing to live the Christian way.

                            So yes, we participate in Salvation, but we cannot hope to have anything to do with the exclusive Work of Christ in providing for our Salvation. So what is this "Work of Christ" that alone saved us? It is the work on the cross, in which a perfect sacrifice had to be offered, from heaven, to atone for our sins. It was nothing less than God's Son coming to earth to provide us with eternal life, while having to pay the price of coming to this sinful world and suffering from sinful men.

                            That alone is the Work of Salvation, which Christ alone could accomplish. Only he was God's Son, and only he was unblemished by human sin. He was thus exclusively qualified to win our Salvation. He represented nothing less than God's exclusive means of giving us His own love and grace in a time when humanity was flawed and worthy of being separated from God's Kingdom. Christ came to offer God's Kingdom back to men, so that we could be cleansed of our rebellion.

                            So Christ alone could do the Work of Salvation. But we participate by accepting what Christ has given to us, which is the means of repentance and living in righteousness. In this we are not redeeming ourselves but taking God up on His offer of Salvation, which does require our participation through repentance and through obedience to His word.

                            Randy , on one hand you are saying we have no part in our salvation .....then you conclude that we participate through repentance and obedience to his word .

                            can you make the connection between believing his word , and repentance ? We repent and obey , because we hear the truth about eternal life , and damnation. What you are saying in this post , is probably the best post I've seen you write in this forum . Our participation , is to repent and believe the gospel . To do this will lead a believer , who believes to repentance and truth in all things .

                            the word , works in us who receive and believe the word , that through faith thatn comes by this word we believe , works in us to will and act according to his will , which is expressed in the everlasting gospel. It is his word in us , but it's not only the crucifixion , it's the teachings of Jesus Christ that bring us into repentance and obedience , the cross is about propitiation for sin .

                            in in the end , to hear the truth in Christ , not to hear before one comes to Christ , but when you hear the truth in Christ ......salvation is according to what we do , not what we have done in the past , but what we do now , hearing and believing the truth .......we cannot be saved without Jesus and his gospel , his death and resurrection is what we could not do , what we can do though , is believe the one who suffered and died for us .....and follow the light of the world .....we can repent and learn the gospel , and we can accept and follow the things the lord set forth for his kingdom .....he will strengthen and quicken believers who accept his word John 6:63 ....but he's never going to force us to do things against our will ....we have to do the things that he says we have to do ....not what anyone else said but what the lord our savior said about salvation which if people would learn what it is he taught ...it is truly a yoke that's easy and burden that is light ..I liked this post thanks for taking the time ....




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