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  • Two doors for all sin

    When Satan tempted Eve, she was deceived and then rebelled. Then Satan tempted Adam through Eve. Adam then rebelled. There are two doors that always lead to sin; deception and rebellion. Deception is when we think we know better than God. Rebellion is when we just don't care what God said, we are going to do it anyway. Every stronghold can be traced back to these two issues. Satan's desire was to expose Adam and Eve as naked. He was able to do so. The first thing they did was to try and make coverings for themselves (man made, self righteous religion) because of their shame at being exposed. Then when God showed up, they went and hid in shame and fear because they knew their coverings did not cover their nakedness. After confessing to God what they had done, God provided them with clothing. But there were also curses that came as a result of the sin. These two doors, deception and rebellion, have their root in pride. Eve, being deceived, thought she knew better than God. Adam not being deceived, wanted what he was forbidden to have and rebelled. The root of both is pride, meaning their are two sides to the same coin. Eve was deceived and thus rebelled. Adam just rebelled. Pride was at the root of both and on one side of the coin of pride is deception and on the other side of the coin of pride is rebellion.

    Look here what Satan said about himself:

    Isaiah 14:13 "But you said in your heart,
    'I will ascend to heaven;
    I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
    And I will sit on the mount of assembly
    In the recesses of the north.
    14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
    I will make myself like the Most High.'

    Two things we see here. First, he was going to replace God as ruler over creation. Second, he deceived himself into thinking he could make himself to be like God. Gee, I wonder if he ever told someone else the same lie he had believed?

    The next time that mankind was down to one family, we see sin again raise it's ugly head and a line was cursed. Ham exposed the nakedness of Noah. Noah, was a spiritual authority, and yet sinned. Ham went in and looked at the nakedness, then went and talked about it to others. We see here the same thing Satan had done in the garden. When we find ourselves having a critical spirit of others, and we desire to expose their spiritual nakedess to others, we will also find ourselves critical of God and His morality. We will find that we have been deceived and that we are judging ourselves to be right (self righteousness) and looking down on others. We will also find that we have put ourselves in the place of God, as Eve did, as Satan did, as Adam did, and are sinning against Him, even judging Him by saying His way is wrong. So we see that Ham operating in a critical spirit, becoming judge, and exposing nakedness, had at it's root, rebellion and deception, otherwise known as pride. When we condemn others, we are putting them down and lifting ourselves up. Putting others under condemnation while exalting ourselves to the throne of judge. With our tongue we can absolutely tear down people with accusations. (Note, I am not saying we don't preach against sin! We should and do! However, we must not look down our noses at anyone, thinking we are better than them. See Gal 6:1-2.)

    Now, the other two sons, went in backwards refusing to look at the nakedness of their spiritual authority. That was humility in action. They refused to look at the sin and didn't think they should expose him at all. They didn't place themselves in the seat of judgment where they could pass sentence.

    What was the result of Ham's sin? Every tribe in Canaan came from him. All 7 nations (See Deut 7:1) that Israel was to drive out and destroy resulted from Ham. (If you study these nations, you will find some interesting roots there. That would make for an interesting discussion.) In our own hearts, we will find squatters that can be traced back to deception and rebellion. Till we close those doors, we will not have freedom from strongholds of sin. One way to know that rebellion and deception are in our lives is with our tongue. It cannot be tamed. It absolutely WILL reveal what is in the heart. Is our tongue stinging and exposing of the nakedness of our fellow beleivers? Does it ridicule and expose? Does it look down upon and pass sentence? Now, I am not saying we should not preach against sin, please don't hear that. But when someone in church in a moment of weakness, or in a battle, do we gossip about them and expose them?

    Deception, rebellion, and a haughty look will always be exposed with a slicing, backbiting, condemning tongue. And every stronghold that was in the land of Canaan that Israel was to take in conquest, came about because of these doors. The original and continuous cause of all sin is found in Satan and his words "I will rule and I will make myself like God" meaning we think we should be in charge, and we should be able to make up our own rules and that our tongue will elevate us, while exposing other believers nakedness and push people down so we can rule them.

    God bless!

    Note: There's a lot of bible verses hinted at in this post. If you want bible verses, let me know and I can post them for you.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  • #2
    AMEN ! Bro you should do more posts like this meaning with such great substance , really inspired some thoughts in my heart . This is the type of thing that I need , the substance in this is wonderful. Thourough, I do prefer scripture I'm sure you know , but I was as I was reading this , reflecting on scripture so there's no need to post anything ....the post itself , has substance . Thank you for taking the time , I hope you will do a few more like this in the future ....it's how we can understand the phrases we use a lot , but don't make a lot of sense unless ....there is substance and edification . Great post , God bless you in the things of Christ Jesus abundantly

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
      AMEN ! Bro you should do more posts like this meaning with such great substance , really inspired some thoughts in my heart . This is the type of thing that I need , the substance in this is wonderful. Thourough, I do prefer scripture I'm sure you know , but I was as I was reading this , reflecting on scripture so there's no need to post anything ....the post itself , has substance .
      Thank you brother! There is a lot of scripture in the post that is implied and referred to. I didn't quote a lot figuring that most on this board would recognize the passages and the implications.

      Our pride can deceive us, and also cause us to rebel. So often in my life, I have thought I knew better than God. So often I thought my way was better! This is the deceptive part of pride and it always, always, always leads to rebellion. Satan is the father of all lies meaning that the first lie generated in him and all lies are his fruit.

      There are only two wisdoms; demonic wisdom or Godly wisdom. The question will always be which will I choose? Like Adam and Eve, we are faced with two voices; "God said" and "Satan said". Which will we choose to follow?

      Any input you wish to give in this thread, have at it. For me the topic was very interesting. This is something God showed me while revealing some deep deception and sin in my heart. Some old ancestral sins that I was able to follow up my family line from me all the way through my grandfather. I am in the process of repenting of them now and getting free of them! Two major doors to close are the doors of deception and rebellion that I opened. Your prayers about it would be much appreciated!

      God bless,

      Mark
      Matt 9:13
      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
      NASU

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post

        Thank you brother! There is a lot of scripture in the post that is implied and referred to. I didn't quote a lot figuring that most on this board would recognize the passages and the implications.

        Our pride can deceive us, and also cause us to rebel. So often in my life, I have thought I knew better than God. So often I thought my way was better! This is the deceptive part of pride and it always, always, always leads to rebellion. Satan is the father of all lies meaning that the first lie generated in him and all lies are his fruit.

        There are only two wisdoms; demonic wisdom or Godly wisdom. The question will always be which will I choose? Like Adam and Eve, we are faced with two voices; "God said" and "Satan said". Which will we choose to follow?

        Any input you wish to give in this thread, have at it. For me the topic was very interesting. This is something God showed me while revealing some deep deception and sin in my heart. Some old ancestral sins that I was able to follow up my family line from me all the way through my grandfather. I am in the process of repenting of them now and getting free of them! Two major doors to close are the doors of deception and rebellion that I opened. Your prayers about it would be much appreciated!

        God bless,

        Mark

        I shouldn't say this because of secrecy in prayer but , you've been in my prayers since the first few posts I read of yours . I will definAtely keep you there . Brother don't feel like your alone in finding a bit of deception , its all of us unkess we just are too proud to admit it . it's why we were given the word of God everyone needs to get to the point you described your working through . it's a lifetime journey were on but man ........do we have a hero to trust with our eternal life

        yes brother , as I read it , I was flashing to scripture in my head ...that's how I always know something has great value for me and sort of how things make sense in my head , scripture has a certain rhythm sometimes in my strange mind .....its melody is really smooth in this original post . Connects itself right along the path of the word of God .

        i was was reflecting a little while ago about this post pondering . You know how mankind was created in Gods image in the beginning ? I was inking about your post here ,and it occurred to me , when Satan deceived them into following his word , mankind began being pulled toward his image concerning the pride now within them , which I totally understand what your saying about the two doors .......And then I sort of reflected back into the gospel as I tend to always do in any subject .


        I'm not sure I can make this very clear , this thought ,mbut I'm gonna try . You know in your post you spoke about " we have Gods word , and we have satans word . Even now it's the same like your saying about wisdom and the two types . So what really came to my mind was the parable of the wheat and tares . How God sowed the word which corresponds to the children of the kingdom and the wheat he had planted ( fruitful mankind) and while he slept ( the seventh day he rested) an enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat creating the children of the devil who accept and believe his word . And the harvest is the end of the world ....where the wheat will be taken in , and the tares cast away.


        Sort of what ever word we choose to believe and follow after , whichever wisdom whether Gods , or the enemies ......is what determines children of God , and children of the devil . Even from the beginning ....if we follow after the wisdom of the enemy , just like it produced pride it grew from there producing every type of inner conflicting knowledge , lust , pride , greed , covetousness, lies , Unforgiveness ....on and on really every kind of evil under the sun , really began with just a seed planted in mans heart ..and corrupted heart with free will ,mthen has its way ..and that pride you have highlighted so clearly here which is sourced at the enemy , and infiltrated the creation of God which would have lived ,had they taken his wisdom remaining humble , rather than died having accepted a lie which begat pride and so on .....into death.


        We are designed to operate from whatever knowledge we believe .....and knowledge produces things like pride , lust .....but much more , Gods knowledge eliminates those things . Satan led us into sin and death through a lie......God redeems us to righteousness and life through the truth . So then Knowledge begats spirit ( meaning the inner things like pride , lust , undpforgiveness things in the heart) . And again it works also the other way , knowledge begats spirit , such as humility , righteousness , truth , love , compassion , humility being the first thing people really grasp makes sense to me now , the opposite of pride .


        Who could learn the teachings of Jesus , and remain proud or self righteous ......only someone who wouldn't believe him.

        Sorry I know I get a bit jumbled , in my rhythm lol ...but there's a couple salient thoughts in there , when I have some time I'd like to post a little scripture, it will make better sense than I can .


        I sincerely got great value in my thinking from this post I'm not sure where the train of thought will go , but somewhere really good for me . Really sparked a line of thought heading into prophecy ...


        Substance brother , i hope to see more posts like this one , I appreciate the thoroughness , and your always welcoming attitude to everyone .








        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
          i was was reflecting a little while ago about this post pondering . You know how mankind was created in Gods image in the beginning ? I was inking about your post here ,and it occurred to me , when Satan deceived them into following his word , mankind began being pulled toward his image concerning the pride now within them , which I totally understand what your saying about the two doors .......And then I sort of reflected back into the gospel as I tend to always do in any subject .
          Amen! That's exactly right. Satan is the great imitater. Just as Jesus wants His image in us, Satan wants to mold us into his image as well. Thus Jesus said "you are of your father the devil". We don't have to stay in that lineage though! We can be transformed. Or as Paul said "till Christ be formed in us".

          Your words remind me of this passage and gives new meaning to it for me:

          Proverbs 22:28 Do not move the ancient boundary
          Which your fathers have set.

          Father set a boundary. We need to be careful not to move it!

          I'm not sure I can make this very clear , this thought ,mbut I'm gonna try . You know in your post you spoke about " we have Gids word , and we have satans word . Even now it's the same like your saying about wisdom and the two types . So what really came to my mind was the parable of the wheat and tares . How Gid sowed the word which corresponds to the children of the kingdom and the wheat he had planted ( fruitful mankind) and while he slept ( the seventh day he rested) an enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat creating the children of the devil who accept and believe his word .
          Interesting indeed!


          Sort of what ever word we choose to believe and follow after , whichever wisdom whether Gods , or the enemies ......is what determines children of God , and children of the devil . Even from the beginning ....if we follow after the wisdom of the enemy , just like it produced pride it grew from there producing every type of inner conflicting knowledge , lust , pride , greed , covetousness, lies , Unforgiveness ....on and on really every kind of evil under the sun , really began with just a seed planted in mans heart ....and that pride you have highlighted , which is sourced at the enemy , and infiltrated the creation of God which would have lived , rather than died .
          Exactly. Thank God though we can get rid of those seeds. Our heart, is a great land that God promised us can be taken back!!!! In 1 Cor. 3:9 Paul tells us that we are God's field, His pasture, His building. The Hittites, who occupied the land of Canaan even when Israel was in Egyptian slavery, were fear. Their root word from which their name comes from actually means "terror, confusion, to break down by violence". IOW, many people can be saved, yet have a spirit of fear upon them from long before they were saved. Yet, if they will listen to God, they can be set free from this spirit for it did not come from God! It was grown from a seed planted by the enemy long ago before they were ever saved.

          We are designed to operate from whatever knowledge we believe .....and knowledge produces things like pride , lust .....but much more , Gods knowledge eliminates those things . Satan led us into sin through a lie......God redeems us through the truth . Knowledge begats spirit ( meaning the inner things like pride , lust , undpforgiveness things in the heart . And again it works also the other way , knowledge begats spirit , such as humility , righteousness , truth , love , compassion , humility being the first thing people really grasp makes sense to me now , the opposite of pride .
          Yes! We think we know so much but in reality, we know nothing! When we trust Him, then we are wise and with wisdom, we can wage war and have freedom.

          Who could learn the teachings of Jesus , and remain proud or self righteous ......
          BOOM!

          Sorry I know I get a bit jumbled , in my rhythm lol ...but there's a salient thought in there , when I have some time I'd like to post a little scripture, it will make better sense than I can.
          I am looking forward to it.

          I sincerely got good value in my thinking from this post I'm not sure where the train of thought will go , but somewhere really good for me. Really sparked a line of thought heading into prophecy ...
          It blessed me too when the Lord revealed it to me.

          Thanks for sharing bro.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry I forgot this point . Cain the first man ever born ....look into him , and how proud ...he was ...so proud God told him " just do what is right and you will be accepted " but instead of heeding the word of almighty God , his solution was to murder the righteous guy, his little brother . I never , made that connection until I read this . Pride was working in Cain . In I think it's Hebrews , no wait , 1 John maybe ....but we're told that Cain murdered Abel because his deeds were evil and his brothers were righteous ......his pride led him to eliminate the accepted one , rather than repenting of his own ways ....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post

              Amen! That's exactly right. Satan is the great imitater. Just as Jesus wants His image in us, Satan wants to mold us into his image as well. Thus Jesus said "you are of your father the devil". We don't have to stay in that lineage though! We can be transformed. Or as Paul said "till Christ be formed in us".

              Your words remind me of this passage and gives new meaning to it for me:

              Proverbs 22:28 Do not move the ancient boundary
              Which your fathers have set.

              Father set a boundary. We need to be careful not to move it!



              Interesting indeed!




              Exactly. Thank God though we can get rid of those seeds. Our heart, is a great land that God promised us can be taken back!!!! In 1 Cor. 3:9 Paul tells us that we are God's field, His pasture, His building. The Hittites, who occupied the land of Canaan even when Israel was in Egyptian slavery, were fear. Their root word from which their name comes from actually means "terror, confusion, to break down by violence". IOW, many people can be saved, yet have a spirit of fear upon them from long before they were saved. Yet, if they will listen to God, they can be set free from this spirit for it did not come from God! It was grown from a seed planted by the enemy long ago before they were ever saved.



              Yes! We think we know so much but in reality, we know nothing! When we trust Him, then we are wise and with wisdom, we can wage war and have freedom.



              BOOM!



              I am looking forward to it.



              It blessed me too when the Lord revealed it to me.

              Thanks for sharing bro.

              brother .......I perceive glorious changes happening in you through things you share here , and it brings joy . God bless you in all things Jesus Christ !!!! Hallelujah !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                Sorry I forgot this point . Cain the first man ever born ....look into him , and how proud ...he was ...so proud God told him " just do what is right and you will be accepted " but instead of heeding the word of almighty God , his solution was to murder the righteous guy, his little brother . I never , made that connection until I read this . Pride was working in Cain . In I think it's Hebrews , no wait , 1 John maybe ....but we're told that Cain murdered Abel because his deeds were evil and his brothers were righteous ......his pride led him to eliminate the accepted one , rather than repenting of his own ways ....
                Love this post. Love it! You are exactly right! And referring back to a great point you made earlier, who's image did Cain now most reveal? He was born of the flesh and acted it out like any of us would. His brother, believed God and was changed. What was wrong with Cain's sacrifice was Cain himself and his attitude. The flesh will always war with the spirit. But thanks be to God, theres always a new line, a new creation, a newness. Seth was born after Abel and God's grace continued. Cain ran from the presence of God and thus ran to condemnation and death and destruction.

                It is never the first born. Never the flesh. God will HATES our flesh, which is born first (i.e. Esau) but loves the one born of the Spirit (Jacob). The flesh is doomed for death and the old man (Pharoah) is doomed for judgment and death as well. But the Spirit gives life. And God will never, ever accept the old man (Pharaoh) nor flesh (Esau) into His kingdom. If we will but believe, then we can be changed. But if all we try to do is clean up flesh (Esau), and the old man (Pharaoh), then we are doomed. And we cannot say "but You made me this way" for these things are made and predestined for destruction and God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy! The flesh and old man are to be destroyed but he spirit and soul saved! The body is a vessel of dishonor until the heart believes. If we believe, we will get a new body after this one dies, and the old man is crucified with Christ. But Jacob, he will live forever! (And this tidbit I just cannot share in any thread and have never posted on here before. But I know you will immediately get the reference.)

                God bless you Follower and thank you so much for the encouragement. I am excited all over again after hearing your input. You have given me some new things to ponder about.

                God says some things plainly. But He hides His wisdom brother. Yet, the heart of a king will search it out! May we both rule and reign in this life over sin, and the flesh with one Christ Jesus.

                God bless!
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                  Two doors for all sin
                  I think there is one door for sin. The other door would be for those who repented and were forgiven and cleansed of sin by the blood of Christ.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post

                    Love this post. Love it! You are exactly right! And referring back to a great point you made earlier, who's image did Cain now most reveal? He was born of the flesh and acted it out like any of us would. His brother, believed God and was changed. What was wrong with Cain's sacrifice was Cain himself and his attitude. The flesh will always war with the spirit. But thanks be to God, theres always a new line, a new creation, a newness. Seth was born after Abel and God's grace continued. Cain ran from the presence of God and thus ran to condemnation and death and destruction.

                    It is never the first born. Never the flesh. God will HATES our flesh, which is born first (i.e. Esau) but loves the one born of the Spirit (Jacob). The flesh is doomed for death and the old man (Pharoah) is doomed for judgment and death as well. But the Spirit gives life. And God will never, ever accept the old man (Pharaoh) nor flesh (Esau) into His kingdom. If we will but believe, then we can be changed. But if all we try to do is clean up flesh (Esau), and the old man (Pharaoh), then we are doomed. And we cannot say "but You made me this way" for these things are made and predestined for destruction and God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy! The flesh and old man are to be destroyed but he spirit and soul saved! The body is a vessel of dishonor until the heart believes. If we believe, we will get a new body after this one dies, and the old man is crucified with Christ. But Jacob, he will live forever! (And this tidbit I just cannot share in any thread and have never posted on here before. But I know you will immediately get the reference.)

                    God bless you Follower and thank you so much for the encouragement. I am excited all over again after hearing your input. You have given me some new things to ponder about.

                    God says some things plainly. But He hides His wisdom brother. Yet, the heart of a king will search it out! May we both rule and reign in this life over sin, and the flesh with one Christ Jesus.

                    God bless!

                    amen again ....this is why I came here , to discuss just like this . When itmismcentered on what the scriptures actually do say ....note how if we will be open to hear and consider , it leads on , creates new thoughts , new things to seek out .

                    exactly brother what you are saying there about never the first born , always the second . That applies to everything in the scripture . There is flesh and spirit . There is a law for the flesh , one fore the spirit , the flesh came first , the spirit was then given to Adam . The two covenants , even as far as two creations promised , two worlds and it's never the first because when Adam was given dominion , and then was deceived , he began operating by the flesh , rather than the spirit beforehand , because of the forbidden knowledge of good v evil .

                    Before they ate the fruit God says " everything I have made is very good " ten generations after they ate the fruit God says " my spirit will not always strive with man , for he is also flesh" even though Adams body was made first , and then God breathed life into him . Already when man has become sinful in Genesis six ,mGods placing the spirit first , and the flesh last . And now he's declaring " the lord was grieved in his heart , and it repented him that he had made mankind on the earth. It's because of the flesh , like your saying between Cain and Abel .

                    cain , was representing the knowledge of evil , operating through the flesh . While Abel , was representing the knowledge of good , operating By the spirit , ruling the flesh . But the first , was of the flesh , like Adams creation first the body , then the spirit....but when a person goes to the New Testament , the gospel ......we are reborn first of the spirit , and then afterwards like your saying there , we will receive the body . This time , it won't be flesh , it won't be made of the dust , it's not going to be made , of what was created ....but it's made of faith . Gods word promises it , and .....we believe as if it's true , somwe then pursue the things of God holding tightly to the faith we are beginning to form .

                    and yet .... Like a plant , or a tree is the process of faith . We begin receiving a seed , we don't toil , we don't strive , but the seed we receive and believe , takes root in the heart . Soon life begins to emerge from the soil of the human heart , as the word of the kingdom , the word of life and light , the gospel of true hope " works in us to will and act according to his good pleasure " works in our minds and hearts , believing , to change the thinking , the considerations , to wash away the stains this world has left on our hearts , the tiny deceptions ,mthe false doctrines that infiltrated the thinking .....the living and active word , which is a discerner of the thoughts , intentions and attitudes of the heart ........which was always the issue , a corrupted heart through the operation of the flesh being deceived by the forbidden knowledge .


                    Some look at it as I must become sinless and then Jesus will save me .....thank God that's not the case . In the world , every last man in a kingdom will fight and die to protect thier King . In our kingdom , our king stepped of his throne , and fought and died to save the people of his kingdom. And .....he wasn't even from this world , yet loved mankind so much , as to,lay down his life , that we can follow after and overcome ....in a way , laying down our lives , our " self " in return .....when this comes into the heart is when Christ is able to fill us up . Often , we are full of,ourself , our wants , our desires , our habits , our approved ways , our thoughts , our views of this world ....when we are full of us , there's no room formjesus to fill us up with his things . Truly is about belief his words design , works everything else out by its design . In the end , there's no man who can boast because it was impossible alone , but through his words given to us by God , and by his sacrifice for us by God , every believer will offer praise and thanks to him alone ....


                    Worthy is the lamb who was slain to receive honor and power and glory and praise and riches name that is above every name whether in heaven or on earth . I sure do love the name Jesus bro ...lol. You have inspired my spirit and I've began to get off course ....

                    your understanding and what you share is beginning to shine , make sure you don't keep quiet .....but shout it from the rooftops people need the light, but they don't always recognize it at the first.....but the light is what makes the plant grow , and the " living water " ....that it bears the proper fruits of the spirit and not " the thorns and briars ." The truth is not often received well in the world , but believers will hear it and a seed will begin to become viable in them ...some scatter seed everywhere they go , others come along and offer nourishment , still others come along and prune and remove the sick branches so the tree remains healthy , still others come and pluck the fruit from its branches and become nourished .....and one in the end will harvest.


                    If only we could come together in numbers , understanding we really do need one another because , Gods design is that we each have different gifts to share with the body , in order to grow up in him through edification and true brotherly love . So much is missing in this world , so much is upside down from His word. Let iron sharpen the iron , and not call it tin foil .....sort of a joke referring back to the subject of pride lol ...okay sorry this one got a little swervy.


                    your a blessing bro , I mean that . Don't look back












                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Follower1977 View Post
                      amen again ....this is why I came here , to discuss just like this . When itmismcentered on what the scriptures actually do say ....note how if we will be open to hear and consider , it leads on , creates new thoughts , new things to seek out .
                      Amen! It was the same for me. I find such posts on here that go to the heart and the mind rather than just the mind. Several folks will post them and often times, they are hid deep in some threads such that they are light in the arguments.

                      exactly brother what you are saying there about never the first born , always the second . That applies to everything in the scripture . There is flesh and spirit . There is a law for the flesh , one fore the spirit , the flesh came first , the spirit was then given to Adam . The two covenants , even as far as two creations promised , two worlds and it's never the first because when Adam was given dominion , and then was deceived , he began operating by the flesh , rather than the spirit beforehand , because of the forbidden knowledge of good v evil .
                      You see it! Not the first Adam (fleshy) but the 2nd Adam. Not King Saul, but King David. Not Esau but Jacob. Not Ishmael but Isaac. Not the OT but the NT. Not the first earth but the second earth. Not the flesh but the spirit. And so on.

                      1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

                      Before they ate the fruit God says " everything I have made is very good " ten generations after they ate the fruit God says " my spirit will not always strive with man , for he is also flesh" even though Adams body was made first , and then God breathed life into him . Already when man has become sinful in Genesis six ,mGods placing the spirit first , and the flesh last . And now he's declaring " the lord was grieved in his heart , and it repented him that he had made mankind on the earth. It's because of the flesh , like your saying between Cain and Abel.
                      I have not put these two together before. While we know the power of God's word, the power of death is also very strong. So strong in fact, that as you pointed out, God eventually was led to destroy all but Noah and His family. Once flesh and death began to reign in mankind, it led down a deep and dark path.

                      cain , was representing the knowledge of evil , operating through the flesh . While Abel , was representing the knowledge of good , operating By the spirit , ruling the flesh . But the first , was of the flesh , like Adams creation first the body , then the spirit....but when a person goes to the New Testament , the gospel ......we are reborn first of the spirit , and then afterwards like your saying there , we will receive the body . This time , it won't be flesh , it won't be made of the dust , it's not going to be made , of what was created ....but it's made of faith . Gods word promises it , and .....we believe as if it's true , somwe then pursue the things of God holding tightly to the faith we are beginning to form .
                      Yes! There are two mature (i.e. grown, or completed) men mentioned in Genesis from each line. With Adam being first, we see Enoch is 7th (the picture of perfection or maturity). We find Enoch who walked with God and was not. We see here God's ultimate plan was always to have man transformed into His image. Death did not have to be a part but became a part. Enoch, the 7th from Adam was what a mature Adam was to be like, and was to be translated rather than experiencing death. On the other side, we see Lamech, 7th from Adam in the flesh (Adam being 1st and Lamech being 7th). And what does one who is mature in the flesh look like? This man took two wives (full of lust of the flesh and the first to indulge in poligamy), murder (killed a man and a boy), and pride (if Cain be avenged 7 times then Lamech 77 times). Which will we be?

                      and yet .... Like a plant , or a tree is the process of faith . We begin receiving a seed , we don't toil , we don't strive , but the seed we receive and believe , takes root in the heart . Soon life begins to emerge from the soil of the human heart , as the word of the kingdom , the word of life and light , the gospel of true hope " works in us to will and act according to his good pleasure " works in our minds and hearts , believing , to change the thinking , the considerations , to wash away the stains this world has left on our hearts , the tiny deceptions ,mthe false doctrines that infiltrated the thinking .....the living and active word , which is a discerner of the thoughts , intentions and attitudes of the heart ........which was always the issue , a corrupted heart through the operation of the flesh being deceived by the forbidden knowledge.
                      Amen!!!!

                      Some look at it as I must become sinless and then Jesus will save me .....thank God that's not the case . In the world , every last man in a kingdom will fight and die to protect their King. In our kingdom, our king stepped of his throne , and fought and died to save the people of his kingdom. And .....he wasn't even from this world , yet loved mankind so much , as to,lay down his life , that we can follow after and overcome ....in a way , laying down our lives , our " self " in return .....when this comes into the heart is when Christ is able to fill us up . Often , we are full of,ourself , our wants , our desires , our habits , our approved ways , our thoughts , our views of this world ....when we are full of us , there's no room formjesus to fill us up with his things . Truly is about belief his words design , works everything else out by its design . In the end , there's no man who can boast because it was impossible alone , but through his words given to us by God , and by his sacrifice for us by God , every believer will offer praise and thanks to him alone ....
                      The bold part just jumped to me! What a wondeful God we serve!!!! And yes, we copy Him in return as He works in us.

                      Worthy is the lamb who was slain to receive honor and power and glory and praise and riches name that is above every name whether in heaven or on earth . I sure do love the name Jesus bro ...lol.
                      He is the only One who is worthy!!!! And thankfully, He that is worthy opens the book of life for us!

                      your understanding and what you share is beginning to shine , make sure you don't keep quiet .....but shout it from the rooftops people need the light, but they don't always recognize it at the first.....but the light is what makes the plant grow , and the " living water " ....that it bears the proper fruits of the spirit and not " the thorns and briars ." The truth is not often received well in the world , but believers will hear it and a seed will begin to become viable in them ...some scatter seed everywhere they go , others come along and offer nourishment , still others come along and prune and remove the sick branches so the tree remains healthy , still others come and pluck the fruit from its branches and become nourished .....and one in the end will harvest.
                      Thank you for the encouragement. I loved, loved, loved the part in bold. The light makes the plants grow. Oh yes! It reminds me that I need to stay in the light. Otherwise, the darkness in me will grow too. It needs no encouragement just opportunity. But the seeds planted by the Lord, they grow too so long as I stay in the Light and walk in the Light and fellowship with the Light!

                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post

                        I think there is one door for sin. The other door would be for those who repented and were forgiven and cleansed of sin by the blood of Christ.
                        Indeed! There is a door of life and a door of death. Sin being the door of death and Jesus being the door of life. You are correct. But what we are speaking about is more specific. For instance, there are doors of sin i.e. the lust of the flesh is a door, the lust of the eye is a door, and the boastful pride of life is a door. And sin and it's cohorts enter through these doors. Then we can "flesh out" so to speak, the doors of lust or pride. And we can begin to see how things build up in us, how they began to rule us, to conquor us, and so on. Once we realize what doors we opened, we can repent and close these doors limiting the power of the enemy to rule us. Through the redemptive power of God, we now can close doors and enter into life through Him. And even though we are born again, and alive already, through closing such doors of sin, we begin to have abundant life! We no longer have to wonder about in the wilderness of sin but can have abundant life in the land of promise, where it is overflowing with milk and honey (i.e. the word of God) and abounds in fruit with large clusters of grapes, pomegranites, etc (i.e. the fruit of the Spirit).
                        Matt 9:13
                        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                        NASU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post

                          Amen! It was the same for me. I find such posts on here that go to the heart and the mind rather than just the mind. Several folks will post them and often times, they are hid deep in some threads such that they are light in the arguments.



                          You see it! Not the first Adam (fleshy) but the 2nd Adam. Not King Saul, but King David. Not Esau but Jacob. Not Ishmael but Isaac. Not the OT but the NT. Not the first earth but the second earth. Not the flesh but the spirit. And so on.

                          1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.



                          I have not put these two together before. While we know the power of God's word, the power of death is also very strong. So strong in fact, that as you pointed out, God eventually was led to destroy all but Noah and His family. Once flesh and death began to reign in mankind, it led down a deep and dark path.



                          Yes! There are two mature (i.e. grown, or completed) men mentioned in Genesis from each line. With Adam being first, we see Enoch is 7th (the picture of perfection or maturity). We find Enoch who walked with God and was not. We see here God's ultimate plan was always to have man transformed into His image. Death did not have to be a part but became a part. Enoch, the 7th from Adam was what a mature Adam was to be like, and was to be translated rather than experiencing death. On the other side, we see Lamech, 7th from Adam in the flesh (Adam being 1st and Lamech being 7th). And what does one who is mature in the flesh look like? This man took two wives (full of lust of the flesh and the first to indulge in poligamy), murder (killed a man and a boy), and pride (if Cain be avenged 7 times then Lamech 77 times). Which will we be?



                          Amen!!!!



                          The bold part just jumped to me! What a wondeful God we serve!!!! And yes, we copy Him in return as He works in us.



                          He is the only One who is worthy!!!! And thankfully, He that is worthy opens the book of life for us!



                          Thank you for the encouragement. I loved, loved, loved the part in bold. The light makes the plants grow. Oh yes! It reminds me that I need to stay in the light. Otherwise, the darkness in me will grow too. It needs no encouragement just opportunity. But the seeds planted by the Lord, they grow too so long as I stay in the Light and walk in the Light and fellowship with the Light!

                          Praise God brother , I can't tell,you how much I needed this discussion, if nothing else to remind me that I'm not insane to cling so tightly to the word . Fellowship in the right manner and heart does something that can't be achieved alone. You truly are my brother in Christ .


                          Just to sort of add to the second being accepted and not the first , notice it's not Abram the Hebrew who receives the promise of the gospel , but he is renamed Abraham when Gid makes him father of many nations . Notice Jacob receives another name , when he encounters the lord after he sees the golden ladder leading to heaven and the lord standing atop it with angels descending and ascending .....and Jesus said "what if you see the Angels descending and ascending upon the son of man ?"

                          when jacob wrestles with the lords angel , he is renamed Israel ..... Jacob became Israel , Abram became Abraham , Simon became Peter ...Saul , became Paul .......see how because we know the gospel .....to lose the first name , and be called of the new name ....is already speaking of the death and resurrection through Christ ? Becoming " the new man , and putting away the old " and Christ says in revelation " whoever overcomes I will give him a new name .......

                          sometimes people hear someone say " the whole bible is about Jesus , the Old Testament is witnessing of him and his gospel , and the New Testament is witnessing of him and his gospel . They don't quite see how many figures in the events in the o.t. We're actually shadows of what Christ would accomplish when the time was fulfilled , and he would come preaching the new living way.


                          theres res nothing quite as stimulating for Christian growth , when two or more will come together in the right heart seeking the truth of our Gods word nothing brings better joy to,my heart than to hear the word flowing out from a brother , in thier words showing that the word , is becoming alive and active becoming part of the thoughts and belief in the heart .....that's the moment when once we experience just the first little changes in our desires , the things we want to spend time doing ,mth inking about ,me hen we grasp,it and see it begin to work , and experience just a few things falling away .....it's like that's when the lord grips tightly and begins pulling us and carrying us along .....see when Jesus said " verily I say unto you , whoever hears my word , and believes him who sent me , shall not come into condemnation , but has passed from death to life " if we will believe it ......he's going to accomplish it becsuse his word is infallible , it will come to pass just as he said it .


                          its it's the circumcision of the heart , by the two edged "sword of the spirit ,the word of God .


                          when jesus was being tempted .....he replies " it is written ....it is written ...it is written ....and then Satan left him alone for the time. But with Adam and Eve Satan tempted them ,mand they didn't refer back to what God had said about the fruit . Jesus refers back to what's in scripture three times . That's is the enemies only strategy " if I can convince them that Gods word , is not the truth ,they will surely die " it's never changed Gods word is life , the enemies word is death.


                          Bro I'm not just trying to encourage you , I'm just being honest with you . The lords working in you ,mand it's not something you even needed to say ...it's showing in your understanding and words . The very first post I read from you , we talked a moment about when the words of a covenant , are put into effect referring to the section ofnhebrews which is absent from my mind at the moment which verse....but it reads something like

                          " the testament is of strength after the death of the testator , like a living will. A person writes the words of the will while they are alive , and as soon as they die , all of thier words are now immutable pertaining to thier possessions. No,one can change or,omit what the testator said before he died .


                          Well I can't remember who but someone was arguing that ,me hen Jesus died , it meant that all he said died with him , and we weren't suppose to believe those things , but only what was after his death .

                          Well before I had a chance to reply , youmhad shared those verses ,mand made the point I was going to make . That the covenant Jesus spoke forth beforehand began to be in authority ,only after jesus shed his blood . At that point , I began hoping for an in depth conversation with you , and often just sort ofmpopped in to a post you had written , read it , and considered . Sometimes I would leave some things , but always ,me vent if there was a point or two that weren't completely in line with each other ,move found value in any post of any length ,mthat you've written that I've seen anyways ....often ,mjust your attitude towards others ......


                          Im not just trying to encourage you , just being real with you , haven't had a great chance to do that until recently . I'm very encouraged by some of the things you share , and I've seen a lot of expansion in your ideas and true understandings. Possibly just refining things ,mbut lately it's really showing in your writing ,my our mind is coming into conformity to the lords gospel , and ......I think I hear some cheering and praising in the presence of God lol when someone's sharing really good stuff ....it's good to see and hear , consider rather than looking for something they might see different at first , we should look for the value and substance of thier words , and then consider the lords word if they are in line with his word ,mand were opposed in our thoughts ......we should be humble and grow ,mrs ther than be proud and stunt our own growth .







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