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  • This kind of demon?

    Jesus and the disciples cast out many demons even from far away.
    However Jesus had to intercede in the case of the possessed boy whose demon made him epileptic, crazy and suicidal at Matthew 17
    Matthew 1&:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
    19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
    20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
    21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.'

    So does this mean that there are different grades of demons just as there are angels and archangels?

    I say demons are the spirits of the drowned Nephilim as Satan's original gang of fallen angels is bound until the end of the Millennium and his second gang was not swept out of heaven with Satan sometime not long ago. I say 1914 in time to be able to torment this last generation.

    What does anyone think about the demon the disciples could not exorcise?

  • #2
    Originally posted by XRose View Post
    Jesus and the disciples cast out many demons even from far away.
    However Jesus had to intercede in the case of the possessed boy whose demon made him epileptic, crazy and suicidal at Matthew 17
    Matthew 1&:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
    19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
    20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
    21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.'

    So does this mean that there are different grades of demons just as there are angels and archangels?

    I say demons are the spirits of the drowned Nephilim as Satan's original gang of fallen angels is bound until the end of the Millennium and his second gang was not swept out of heaven with Satan sometime not long ago. I say 1914 in time to be able to torment this last generation.

    What does anyone think about the demon the disciples could not exorcise?
    XRose, this has always been a great question. To draw the conclusion from the scripture that there are demons that have greater "power" over others is the usual conclusion. I however believe that Jesus' authority is sufficient for anyone who is "in" Christ, to cast out a demon from a person oppressed or possessed by a demon. Yes, I have seen demons manifest and be cast out and I have also seen demons manifest and cast them out.

    The scripture in question however isn't "about" the demon where one can conclude there are some demons that are stronger/different grades. Sure, there are demons in great positions of authority (principalities for example) but against the authority of Jesus, they are ALL equal and submit to His FULL authority.

    So, what does this scripture show us or teach us. The scripture is about "relationship." As a Christian, we have a relationship with God, through Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit. There are many elements of relationship that are taught when one is discipled, and experienced when one is in obedience. I don't want this to become a "fasting" thread because there are SO many opinions. However, Jesus is pointing out relationship and yes, we worship, we pray, we study/read His Word, we meditate, we fellowship with brethren, we congregate, we serve, we help, we love, etc, etc, etc. In this mix of relational elements of drawing in close to Christ, is fasting as we BECOME, more like Christ.

    The scripture shows that "fasting" is a normal element of RELATIONSHIP, as Jesus had a close relationship with His Father while He lowered Himself to become a man. Jesus didn't go away and fast and come back "fasted UP." Fasting was a normal part of His relationship with His Father. However, He taught that while the disciples did not HAVE that element active with Him presently (the Groom is WITH the bride, no fasting presently), they would fast once He had gone to be with God the Father. In other words, fasting would be an ACTIVE element of relationship with Jesus, while He is in heaven.

    The best way I can express this is... Jesus was teaching them that by having this element (fasting), as part of their relationship with Him, compounded by faith, His authority will manifest GREATER. This demon in the child was not greater due to the failure experienced by the disciples when they attempted to cast it out. They experienced how the lack of fasting caused them to manifest LESS of Jesus' authority. At this time, while they did experience SOME of His authority, they were not experiencing utilization of FULL authority. In time, when they began to fast as part of their relationship with Him, they would experience His authority in greater ways.

    Look out into the entire Body of Christ, listen to all the resistance to FASTING and one can understand WHY the Body today LACKS Holy Spirit power and LACKS the fullness of authority through Jesus Christ's name.
    Slug1--out

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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    • #3
      Jesus specifically said 'This kind...' implying there are different kinds.
      Some people are possessed with the spirits of the drowned Nephilim and some by Satan's second gang of fallen angels.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by XRose View Post
        Jesus specifically said 'This kind...' implying there are different kinds.
        Some people are possessed with the spirits of the drowned Nephilim and some by Satan's second gang of fallen angels.
        That does not change the lesson in the scripture that fasting will be an active part of one's relationship with Christ. All "kinds" will submit under His full authority. Jesus' authority will be greater in those closer to Him and by using this "demon" as an example, we know that the BIGGER the problem, it will not matter due to how He can manifest in greater ways in and through us due to our strict relationship.

        Theologically, the reference to "kind" represents stubbornness of this demon, not power/grade. For example, when Jesus encountered legion in that one man and they requested that they be cast out into the herd of pigs, casting out demons is not a cookie cutter event. So, again to be "prepared" for anything, one's relationship MUST have the element of fasting as part of relationship with Jesus.

        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          'This kind' implies more than one kind. Fasting is neither here nor there when discussing kinds.
          My neighbour has one kind of dog - a big Lbradord one - and my other neighbour has another kind of dog - a mini Yorkie one. Both dogs but different kinds?
          No-one would say a Yorkie is a Labrador?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by XRose View Post
            'This kind' implies more than one kind. Fasting is neither here nor there when discussing kinds.
            My neighbour has one kind of dog - a big Lbradord one - and my other neighbour has another kind of dog - a mini Yorkie one. Both dogs but different kinds?
            No-one would say a Yorkie is a Labrador?
            Demons may have different characteristics, different missions, different placement in hierocracy in satans forces, they may even look different from each other, but they are "all" demons.

            In that scripture, the "kind" of demon isn't the point. Jesus "uses" the demon or that kind of demon, as an opportunity to "disciple" His disciples. The discipling point is about authority. Specifically, how fasting and faith are KEY in the use of Jesus' authority, when one is having trouble.

            Getting hung up on that "kind" of demon is causing you to MISS the lesson Jesus is teaching.
            Slug1--out

            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by XRose View Post
              Jesus and the disciples cast out many demons even from far away.
              However Jesus had to intercede in the case of the possessed boy whose demon made him epileptic, crazy and suicidal at Matthew 17
              Matthew 1&:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
              19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
              20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
              21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.'

              So does this mean that there are different grades of demons just as there are angels and archangels?

              I say demons are the spirits of the drowned Nephilim as Satan's original gang of fallen angels is bound until the end of the Millennium and his second gang was not swept out of heaven with Satan sometime not long ago. I say 1914 in time to be able to torment this last generation.

              What does anyone think about the demon the disciples could not exorcise?
              I am with you on this one. There are definitely different types of demons with diverse demonic strengths and specific areas of operation. But Satan is the head of them all. To understand the difference in power and operation of demons under Satan, has anyone wondered for example, why Jesus healed two different blind men differently? On one occasion, he merely touched the eyes of the blind and he regained their sight immediately (Matt 9:27-30). On another, he made mud with his spittle and touched the blind man's eyes and charged him to go and wash in the pool of Siloam (John 9:6-7).

              Another example is the demon called the prince of Persia that withheld the angel en route to Daniel's prayers. Now, is there anyone in doubt that it requires a powerful demon to withstand an angel of God, so much so that God's archangel Michael, was required to set the angel free?

              So as the saying goes; different problems require different solutions. Jesus understands this and simply identified each demon in charge of a given affliction and cast him out with the requisite effort. So yes, all demons are not the same.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                Theologically, the reference to "kind" represents stubbornness of this demon, not power/grade. For example, when Jesus encountered legion in that one man and they requested that they be cast out into the herd of pigs, casting out demons is not a cookie cutter event. So, again to be "prepared" for anything, one's relationship MUST have the element of fasting as part of relationship with Jesus.
                I take nothing away from your exegesis, just a few pointers for your consideration. You said that "Theologically, the reference to "kind" represents stubbornness of this demon, not power/grade", I wonder how possible can this be? Demons are not like flesh that can blow hot air without substance. Therefore, the "stubbornness" of a demon/spirit is invariably relative to his power or grade, let me use your words.

                In an earlier post, I cited the prince of Persia that hindered angel Gabriel from his errand. His (prince of Persia's) stubbornness/power required that heaven sent a reinforcement in archangel Michael to free Gabriel. The reference to fasting is a reminder to the disciples and the church that there are stubborn situations that require extra power which can only be accessed through fasting from Jesus.

                I have participated in the deliverance of a man steeped in the occult for over 30 years of his life. I can tell you that what it took to set him free in the name of Jesus was not the same as praying for the healing of one afflicted by a lesser demon. All I am saying is that demons are grouped according to a hierarchy of power with Satan at the head.

                Also, ever wondered why Jesus spent most of his time in fasting and praying while on earth? Isn't it because in his form as a man, he knew he was coming against Satan. His fasting and constant prayers show he never downplayed Satan's ability. He had a mission and recognised that there were powers that could hinder him and had to deal with that power with prayer and fasting.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                  I take nothing away from your exegesis, just a few pointers for your consideration. You said that "Theologically, the reference to "kind" represents stubbornness of this demon, not power/grade", I wonder how possible can this be? Demons are not like flesh that can blow hot air without substance. Therefore, the "stubbornness" of a demon/spirit is invariably relative to his power or grade, let me use your words.

                  In an earlier post, I cited the prince of Persia that hindered angel Gabriel from his errand. His (prince of Persia's) stubbornness/power required that heaven sent a reinforcement in archangel Michael to free Gabriel. The reference to fasting is a reminder to the disciples and the church that there are stubborn situations that require extra power which can only be accessed through fasting from Jesus.

                  I have participated in the deliverance of a man steeped in the occult for over 30 years of his life. I can tell you that what it took to set him free in the name of Jesus was not the same as praying for the healing of one afflicted by a lesser demon. All I am saying is that demons are grouped according to a hierarchy of power with Satan at the head.

                  Also, ever wondered why Jesus spent most of his time in fasting and praying while on earth? Isn't it because in his form as a man, he knew he was coming against Satan. His fasting and constant prayers show he never downplayed Satan's ability. He had a mission and recognised that there were powers that could hinder him and had to deal with that power with prayer and fasting.
                  Hooah. My post #6 I do raise/mention the heirocracy of demons. I just did not want to focus on demons because steering XRose to the disciplement opportunity Jesus was doing and the teaching He was teaching, was more important.

                  XRose is gone, so...

                  As for Jesus' effort in fasting, yes... He knew he'd be in constant battle during that three years with satan and his forces. I agree with your comment.
                  Slug1--out

                  ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                    Hooah. My post #6 I do raise/mention the heirocracy of demons. I just did not want to focus on demons because steering XRose to the disciplement opportunity Jesus was doing and the teaching He was teaching, was more important.

                    XRose is gone, so...

                    As for Jesus' effort in fasting, yes... He knew he'd be in constant battle during that three years with satan and his forces. I agree with your comment.
                    As usual, every statement Jesus made is imbued with meaning. So yes, Jesus used the experience to teach the disciples about subduing the flesh and strengthening the spirit in fasting and prayer.

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