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Biblical Teaching of Wine

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  • Information Biblical Teaching of Wine

    (I don't expect much response, just typed this study up to stir your minds. I trust it proves to be enlightening)

    Unless one has an honest heart, no amount of statistical evidence or scripture will change their mind against alcoholic beverages. The demon of drink is just as alive as it has ever been. I have known people to staunchly defend alcohol and their right to use it as they please. The love of drink blinded their minds. Sound reasoning is no where to be found in them. Over the years, the product line of alcoholic beverages presented to the public has expanded and flourished. Regardless of the form however, some things have not changed. It continues to be destructive to health, a major factor in traffic fatalities, immorality, and a focal point in a large percentage of divorces. One only has to look around to observe its fruit.

    Public opinion has varied widely over the years. At the beginning of the 1900’s, the majority cried out against it. The Women’s Christian Temperance Union was formed to stamp it out. Public sentiment was swayed to the point that Congress voted into law the Eighteenth Amendment, outlawing the manufacture and sale of alcohol. This happened in 1917. By 1919, all of the States had ratified it. Sad to say, it only lasted for fourteen years. In 1933, Congress overturned the Eighteenth Amendment by passing the Twenty-first Amendment. In a recent Gallup Poll, people were asked if they would be in favor of legislation banning alcohol again. Of those asked, 80% said they would be against such a law. These statistics become even more disturbing when we consider that the majority of the U.S. populations profess some form of Christianity. It is also interesting to note that most of the sales of alcohol take place over the Christmas season.

    What is needed is a strong pronouncement against alcohol—a clear call to abstinence. There are several reasons one might have a weak stand against it. Human reasoning tells most people to just use it with moderation. Do not drink it in excess. The medical profession even goes so far as to tell people that a little can be good for you. Another reason is a false religion is blind to it. Babylon herself has a cup in her hand. People get spiritually drunk and they lose sound judgment and reasoning. What is important to all is what the Bible actually teaches concerning this—which leads me to a very important reason people have difficulty in standing against it. Within the Bible there are seemingly inconsistencies concerning our subject. In both the Old Testament and New Testament are texts that can be difficult to explain and bring into harmony with the teaching on total abstinence. It is also good to remember that in the Old Testament, God winked at some things. Let us be clear on this point: the Word of God does not contradict itself. The Bible does not present a duel teaching.

    One last reason for a weak pronouncement against the use of alcoholic beverages has been the notion that grape juice could not be kept fresh for long periods of time and that most of what they drank was fermented because of the aging process. But according to different ancient historians, there were a number of methods used to keep juice fresh and unfermented. Probably the most popular was boiling down of large quantities to a thick syrup substance that was then poured into jars and sealed. The boiling itself removed any alcohol. This syrup could be stored for long periods of time without fermenting. When they desired, they would simply mix a portion of the soup with water and return it to a fresh juice.

    To understand what the Bible teaches concerning this, we must look beyond the English words such as “wine” to the Hebrew and Greek words from which they were translated. Our first word we wish to consider is the Hebrew word…

    Yayin
    The Hebrew word that is used most often and translated “wine” in the Old Testament is yayin. This word appears 137 times and is translated “wine” in 133 instances. Yayin is a generic term in its use. Not every time does it refer to fermented wine. Likewise, neither does it always refer to the unfermented juice.

    Let us give a few examples. Noah became drunk on yayin (Genesis 9:21). Lot was drunk on yayin and unaware of his incestuous relationship with his two daughters (Genesis 19:31-35). The wine that is a mocker is yayin (Proverbs 20:1). Proverbs 23:31 “Look not thou upon the wine [yayin] when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.” Kings were forbidden to drink yayin when they did he service of God in the tabernacle (Leviticus 10:9; Ezekiel 44:21). These are all obviously referring to the fermented product.

    On the other hand, let us cite a few examples of yayin as being obviously unfermented. God gives man “wine [yayin] that maketh glad the heart of man…” (Psalms 104:15). Wine (yayin) was used as a drink offering unto the Lord. Numbers 15:10, “And thou shalt bring for a drink offering half a hin of wine, for an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord.”
    According to the best Greek-Hebrew lexicographers, Yayin comes from an unused root that involves some type of turbulence or agitation. The bubbling effervescent action of fermentation comes first to mind. However, according to them, it can have three distinct meanings. First is a foaming turbulence, caused by the freshly pressed grape juice as it flows from the winepress into the vat or container. Second is the movement caused by the fermentation. Third is the boiling turbulence when the juice is reduced to thick syrup for storage. Thus, we have a word that can be used to refer from the fresh grape juice to an intoxicating drink.

    Some may object, arguing that Yayin is spoken of as being good on some occasions and bad on others because of its quantity of consumption and not its quality. This would be the defense of moderation advocates. However, God said for us to not even look upon, let alone drink in moderation, the fermented product. Proverbs 23:31-32, “Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.” The moving referred to here is the fermentation process. The teaching here is total abstinence. Daniel believed in total abstinence from alcohol. Daniel 1:8, “But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion o the king’s mean, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.” Daniel however, did not refuse all yayin, just the king’s kind. The king’s wine was bad or fermented yayin. “I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.”

    It is obvious from the previous evidence, that where yayin is translated wine in the Old Testament, the context must be taken into consideration for its proper meaning. Our next word we wish to consider is…

    Tiyrowsh
    The word appears 39 times in the Hebrew text. It is translated “wine” 27 time, “new wine” 11 times, and “sweet wine” one time. Strong’s Concordance has it as “must or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out); new, or sweet wine. Tiyrowsh includes all kinds of sweet juices, fresh and new, and does not include fermented wine. The word “must” simply means young, fresh, new, the juice of grapes.

    Tiyrowsh
    is even used to refer to the juice before it is pressed from the grapes. Isaiah 65:8, “Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster….” Furthermore, this word can also refer to grapes harvested, gathered in, and eaten (See Deuteronomy 11:14; 12:17). Four times the tithe of the wine is mentioned; each time it is tiyrowsh. God intended for their tithe of wine to be fresh, unfermented juice. The “wine, which cheereth God and man” is tiyrowsh (Judges 9:13). TO say that this refers to fermented wine would be ridiculous.

    Shekar
    The third most frequently used word in the Hebrew for wine or liquor is shekar. It appears 22 times in the Old Testament and is translated “strong drink” 21 times, and “drunkard” the other. Strong’s defines it as “intensely alcoholic liquor.” Little more explanation is needed for this word and its translation. Shekar is spoken of in nearly every reference in a denouncing tone.

    Aciyc
    This word appears five times in the Old Testament and is nearly identical in the meaning with tiyrowsh. It means must or fresh grape-juice, just trodden out. It is translated juice, new wine, or sweet wine.

    Chamar and Chemer
    These words are similar in some ways to the Yayin in that context must be taken into consideration. They are translated as wine, pure, and red wine. They are derived from a root meaning to “boil up, hence to ferment, and to glow with redness.” Like yayin, this boiling can point to three meanings. The movement associated with fermentation, boiling from being heated, and the foaming caused from the juice of pressed grapes as they flow into a vat or container. This means that these words can refer to fresh juice and fermented. The “wine” found in Ezra 6:9 and 7:22 obviously refers to the unfermented juice, while the wine king Belshazzar served to his drunken party Dainel 5, verses 1, 2, 4, and 23 was fermented.

    So far, we have examined only Hebrew words of the Old Testament in connection with our study. We have set forth only those of the greatest importance. There are other minor words, which we have omitted from consideration. Now, let us turn our attention to the New Testament and its teaching. The New Testament has only a few words from the Greek language that we will consider. The first is…

    Oinos
    This word appears in 23 verses in the New Testament. It is the most important and frequently used word in the New Testament concerning “wine.” Strong’s Concordance connects it with the Hebrew Yayin and translates it as wine (figurative, or literal). Oinos like Yayin, is a generic term referring to both fresh juice and fermented drink alike. Furthermore, let us point out a very important fact concerning the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament. The Septuagint was the Old Testament translated from Hebrew into the Greek language. This was done several hundred years before Christ and would have been the Bible from which Jesus read. The translators of the Septuagint used the Greek word Oinos as a very general term. When translating, all but one of the Hebrew words we have discussed was translated as Oinos. The one word that was not translated as Oinos was shekar—strong drink. In this instance, the Greek sikera was used. The point is, whether the substance referred to was fresh grape juice, or fermented drink, the Jews used the Greek word Oinos when writing it. Paul, Matthew, Luke, and other New Testament writers chose this word when referring to fresh or new juice. Oinos equally could be used in connection to the syrup commonly used as well as intoxicating beverages.

    However, the important question is, did Jesus ever drink or give to drink a fermented beverage? Many religious people seem to think so, but what does the inspired Word of God teach us? This is where many critical thinking people, skeptics, and the like will surely disagree. Three things must be remembered when considering supposedly contradicting texts: First, when rightly divided, the Bible and its teachings will never contradict itself. Furthermore, the Word of God and the Spirit of God will always agree. The Holy Spirit will never tell you to do contrary to the teachings of the Bible. Secondly, Jesus was sinless. Christ “knew no sin” ((I Corinthians 5:21); “did no sin” (I Peter 2:22); and was “without sin.” Last of all, we must keep in mind that Jesus was the Word of God incarnate. John 1:14, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

    Some will argue the point that Jesus admitted to drinking fermented wine in Luke 7:33-34 when He said, “For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!” Matthew’s account of this is nearly identical. But neither account applies to the word Oinos (wine) to Christ. Jesus did not admit to drinking wine. Even if it did use the word, it must be remembered that it is a generic term and does not necessarily refer to fermented wine. By this statement, Jesus was simply pointing out the difference between John and Himself. John did not drink any wine (Oinos)—Jesus did. This wine (Oinos), we would have to assume was unfermented. It would have to be, to agree with the whole Word of God. Another important observation is that in reality, these were not Christ’s own words. They were what the people were saying about Him: “…and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!” These were the words of the people. If Jesus was saying this of Himself, then the same would have to hold true of what He said of John, “He hath a devil.” In fact, neither statement holds true. They were just the sentiments of the people.
    Last edited by faithfulfriend; Jul 14th 2008, 02:39 AM. Reason: Typo

  • #2
    Christ was a King. Matthew 2:2, “Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews?” John 18:37, “Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born…” Jesus was the Word made flesh. What did the Word tell us about kings drinking fermented wine? Proverbs 31:4-5, “It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink [Yayin] wine; nor for princes strong drink. Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.”


    Not only was Christ King, but He was also a priest. Hebrews 3:1, “…consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus.” Earlier we showed that the law forbade the priests to drink fermented wine while executing the priest’s office. (See Leviticus 10:9, Ezekiel 44:21). Since Jesus was priest and King while on earth, as well as now on the right hand of the Father, could He do that which the law forbade others to do? Jesus’ own words declare that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill.


    Another source of confusion has been the marriage feast in Cana of Galilee found in John 2:-11. Here is recorded Jesus’ first miracle in turning water into wine. Did Jesus put His approval on the use of alcohol beverages? Did He, as some suppose, supply the wedding guests with fermented wine? If so, He not only approved of drinking fermented wine, but encouraged drunkenness as well. This may seem to be a bold statement, but that is the inevitable conclusion if it was fermented. Let us look at some facts. Prior to this miracle, they had been drinking wine or oinos (Verse 3). As already shown, oinos can refer to syrup, fresh juice, or fermented wine. However, for the sake of illustrating its absurdity, let us assume the position that they had already drank fermented wine. From verse ten, it appears that they had already drunk freely, and by now would be on the brink of being intoxicated. Jesus then turned six waterpots of water into wine. These held two to three firkins of water each. A firkin is the equivalent of nine gallons. If each pot held two firkins, it would have yielded a total of 108 gallons. If there were 100 guests at this wedding, Jesus would have been supplying each with over a gallon of fermented drink. Christ would have been guilty of encouraging drunkenness. This is hardly conceivable of the sinless Son of God. Habakkuk 2:15, “Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!”


    What actually happened? The wedding guests had been drinking fresh grape juice and Jesus made more. Furthermore, the governor of the feast declared the latter to be the better. If it had been alcoholic all along, his taste would have been affected and he would not have been able to tell the difference.


    Before we consider the “wine” used in the Lord’s Supper, let us first examine the Passover meal. There are two reasons for this. First, Jesus partook of the Passover on more than one occasion. Secondly, when He instituted the Lord’s Supper, He used items leftover from the Passover meal just ended.


    The Passover described in Exodus 12 makes no mention of the use of wine or any beverage directly. Our attention however, is centered on the use of three Hebrew words: seor (leaven), chametz (leavened), and matstsah (unleavened). According to Strong’s Concordance seor means barm or yeast (as swelling by fermentation). Barm, according to Webster’s 1828 dictionary is a yeast; the scum rising upon beer, or other malt liquors, when fermenting, and used as leaven in bread to make it swell, causing it to be softer, lighter, and more delicate. It may be used in liquors to make them ferment or work. Chametz means fermented and is translated leavened. Exodus 12:15 expressly prohibits the use of chametz or seor. “Seven days shall ye eat unleavened [matstsah] bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven [seor] out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened [chametz] bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.”


    Young’s Analytical Concordance says that chametz is anything leavened or fermented. According to this, we could easily substitute the word fermented for the word leavened. Exodus 12:19-20, “Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened [or fermented], even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ye shall eat nothing leavened [or fermented]; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.”


    Since Jesus knew and kept the law, there is no other possible answer but that Jesus kept the Passover and instituted the Lord’s Supper using unfermented grape juice.


    When examining the accounts of the Lord’s Supper it is interesting to note that the word wine (oinos) or any other term that might be mistaken for a fermented beverage was seemingly omitted on purpose. (See Matthew 26:27-29; Mark 14:23-25; Luke 22:17-20; I Corinthians 11:23-28). Instead, the writers of these accounts used the words “cup,” and “fruit of the vine.”


    I Timothy 5:23 is another seemingly controversial scripture. “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for the stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” Paul was not telling Timothy to quit drinking water and to switch to “wine.” Rather, he was telling him to no longer drink water exclusively. Some commentaries suggest that the alkalinity of the water in those parts were cause for stomach aliments to those who drank water only. Many of the Greeks and Romans were accustomed o mingling wine with their water. One part wine to two or three parts water. This was to offset the water quality problem. It seems that perhaps Timothy was one o those with a weak stomach, and Paul was giving some advice. Paul used the word oinos (wine) in this verse. No indication of whether fresh or fermented wine is given. Paul was not a physician, neither did he go about to practice medicine; he simply knew the qualities of grapes and their juice with alkaline water. This does not give place for use of alcohol for medicinal purposes. Health and cooking are not reasons to go to a store and buy alcohol. The Bible also tells us to “Abstain from all appearance of evil” (I Thessalonians 5:22). Whatever explanation of this scripture we accept, it must agree with the teachings of the Word of God as a whole.


    Deacons and the aged women are not to be given to much wine (I Timothy 3:8; Titus 2:3). These scriptures are not teaching moderation in drinking, but sobriety. Any other explanation would not agree with the Bible teaching of abstinence.


    There is one more Greek word worth mentioning—Oxos. This word means vinegar or sour wine. This word is important because of its connection with Jesus’ death on the cross. According to the four gospels, He was apparently offered vinegar to drink twice while on the cross. The first time He rejected it, but not because of it being alcoholic. Mark 15:23, “And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not” (also see Matthew 27:34, and Luke 23:36). This first instance, it was mixed with narcotic—myrrh or gall, to dull the suffering and pains of the cross. This, Jesus rejected so that He could suffer for us fully, and pay the price for our atonement. The second time He apparently received it. Jesus had cried “I thirst,” and oxos (vinegar) was offered to Him (see John 19:28-30). However, alcohol, its absence, or presence is not the issue here. Rather it is the pain deadening potion and its absence. It is important to note that vinegar is obtained from over-fermentation. The juice is fermented beyond the alcohol stage. It looses its alcoholic state and becomes sour in taste—vinegar.


    Habakkuk 2:5, “Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied…” This scripture tells us the same sad but true story of those who become enslaved by the drink habit. They are first proud. The lure of alcohol to young and old alike is pride. People drink to be accepted of the crowd they run with. It is not because they are thirsty—it is their pride. Next, we see that he “neither keepeth at home.” Alcohol will destroy the home. Money that is badly needed to feed, clothe, and house a family is used for drink. Think of the thousands of children who go without the necessities of life because of a drunkard father. Last we see that he is one who “cannot be satisfied.” How true! Alcoholics cannot be pleased. Many are hot-tempered and quickly go into fits of blind rage. Little feet run to hide from the man they call “daddy.”


    One drink is too many, and a thousand is never enough.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are about 10,000 drinking threads on this board, most of which provide a lot of the information you posted (if the thread was able to last longer than a couple pages due to insults or fights). I whole heartedly disagree with you. I'll leave it at that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Jesus drank so even He'd disagree with your final statement.

        One drink is too many, and a thousand is never enough.
        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          I wholeheartedly agree with the original post.




          However, I do not condemn those who wholeheartedly disagree. Every one who wants to honor God with their lives will do so as the Spirit leads them. I happen to know within myself that the Spirit would not have me drink, but can I apply that to everyone else?

          Of course I can't, although, since I'm human, I'd love to. But, I simply can't.

          Comment


          • #6
            You have obviously thought this out. However, you have a fatal flaw in your logic; you ASSUME the sinfulness of drinking from the outset, and use that assumption to justify your reading of scripture.

            An example:
            Three things must be remembered when considering supposedly contradicting texts: First, when rightly divided, the Bible and its teachings will never contradict itself. Furthermore, the Word of God and the Spirit of God will always agree. The Holy Spirit will never tell you to do contrary to the teachings of the Bible. Secondly, Jesus was sinless. Christ “knew no sin” ((I Corinthians 5:21); “did no sin” (I Peter 2:22); and was “without sin.” Last of all, we must keep in mind that Jesus was the Word of God incarnate. John 1:14, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
            Your assumption: "Jesus was sinless so he would not drink fermented wine". But another logical possibility exists: "Jesus was sinless so drinking fermented wine must not be a sin". Thus, the question still must be raised to the scripture: would drinking fermented wine be a sin?

            It is important to realize that Psalms/Proverbs/Prophets are NOT law books. You simply cannot give a proverb the same legal power as, say, a law in Leviticus. They are, quite simply, adages from a father to a son, wise words to live your life by. Breaking a proverb is far from committing a sin.

            As far as Leviticus 10:9; it didn't prohibit strong drink for Aaron and his sons (and their priestly descendants) completely, just from their time in the tabernacle. I see none of the 613 Hebrew laws which address this subject; meaning, one could drink alcohol and not break the law.

            For the passover: the yeast in wine was not prohibited. I spent some time researching this earlier in the year and finally received an answer from a professor of Jewish history; it would have been very unusual for a Jew to drink unfermented wine during the passover.

            For the Wedding at Cana: This, my friend, is wishful thinking. You cannot say NONE of the wine was fermented: the text itself states "And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now." Men don't get drunk from grape juice, and there would be no reason to serve "good non-fermented grape juice" first; why would the bad stuff taste better later? I see no way whatsoever that this could be referring to unfermented wine. It would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

            The conclusion: because Jesus did not sin, and did not encourage others to sin, I have to assume that drinking fermented wine is not a sin. To say otherwise is to try and read your own biases into the scripture rather than accept what the scripture tells you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crawfish View Post
              The conclusion: because Jesus did not sin, and did not encourage others to sin, I have to assume that drinking fermented wine is not a sin. To say otherwise is to try and read your own biases into the scripture rather than accept what the scripture tells you.
              Yep, by creating wine as His first miracle He'd be setting a sinful standard if it's a sin to drink alcohol.
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              Comment


              • #8
                uh, uh.

                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                Yep, by creating wine as His first miracle He'd be setting a sinful standard if it's a sin to drink alcohol.
                He who was holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners did not make an intoxicating drink at the wedding of Cana nor did he drink intoxicating beverages himself.

                Definition: Intoxication - (from the Latin 'toxicare' which means 'poison')
                To stupefy or excite, as by the action of a chemical substance such as alcohol. 2. To stimulate or excite: "a man whom life intoxicates, who has no need of wine" (Anaïs Nin). 3. To poison.

                No way.


                "Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." Mark 14:25

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                  Yep, by creating wine as His first miracle He'd be setting a sinful standard if it's a sin to drink alcohol.
                  OK, then. Justify that it's a sin to drink alcohol.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    intoxicated = poisoned.

                    Originally posted by crawfish View Post
                    OK, then. Justify that it's a sin to drink alcohol.
                    For the other readers: just read the definition of intoxication as it was defined in my post above.

                    Since nothing in scripture clicks for the one who needs 'justification' that drinking intoxicating beverages is sin, this is for everyone else.

                    "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
                    30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
                    31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright." Proverbs 23

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One word: LEGALISM.

                      Let no one judge you in food or drink.

                      Whhether you eat or drink, do it to the glory of God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by crawfish View Post
                        OK, then. Justify that it's a sin to drink alcohol.
                        I'm saying it's NOT a sin. Jesus created wine so if it's a sin then He'd be setting a sinful standard from the get-go during His ministry. Since He would not cause people to "be" sinful or "to" stumble by creating wine then it's NOT sinful to drink alcohol.
                        Slug1--out

                        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No.

                          Originally posted by Kate View Post
                          One word: LEGALISM.

                          Let no one judge you in food or drink.

                          Whhether you eat or drink, do it to the glory of God.
                          Nope.

                          Should we toss out Proverbs 20:1, 23:23-30 & Ephesians 5:18 just because we are afraid of being called 'legalists'? No way.

                          Paul had in mind the 'right' food and drink, not the wrong ones. No one could think that God would approve of drinking poison that might bring on death or sickness. But that is just the point: fermented beverages are intoxicating (poisonous) by definition. That is why so much destruction has come to the lives of those who partake of it/them.

                          We need to stick with the pure 'fruit of the vine' as Jesus mentioned in Matthew 14:25.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yankee Candle View Post
                            He who was holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners did not make an intoxicating drink at the wedding of Cana nor did he drink intoxicating beverages himself.

                            Luke 7

                            33 For John the Baptist did not come eating bread or drinking wine, (A) and you say, 'He has a demon!' 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners! (B) ' 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated [a] by all her children."


                            So we see that Jesus was doing something to be accused of being a drunkard and that something, was drinking some sort of alcoholic beverage. Now we understand that He was not a drunkard (as this is a sin) and this is an exaggeration of His drinking an alcoholic drink. But clearly shows us in scripture that He did drink something that was alcoholic. Otherwise the accusation would not be in scripture.


                            "Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." Mark 14:25
                            Thank you for posting this scripture. I underlined the words NO MORE which also clearly shows he cannot do this if He never drank an alcoholic drink.

                            How can you not do something anymore if you never did it... even once?

                            Besides this was at the very end of His three year ministry when He knew His time was up. We still have 3 years to account for before He made this statement.
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                              I'm saying it's NOT a sin. Jesus created wine so if it's a sin then He'd be setting a sinful standard from the get-go during His ministry. Since He would not cause people to "be" sinful or "to" stumble by creating wine then it's NOT sinful to drink alcohol.
                              My apologies, then. You're right.

                              Comment

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