Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why witchcraft?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why witchcraft?

    It was asked elsewhere, Why witchcraft today when it wasn't tolerated yesterday? I answered:

    In my country, the US, we never had a State Church, but it was a Christian Country. It is not any longer. The laws of Moses were designed for a theocracy, or what we might call a Christian nation today. When the political State and the Church are married together you have the ideal and what God originally wanted. This is denied by many today, including Christians. But that is part of the result of compromise with an eroding Christian country. Gradually, the norm becomes a Secular State, rather than a Christian State.

    So the original laws of Moses assumed every citizen of the State knew the Law, and could be held accountable within the norms of the society. If someone practiced witchcraft, it was an intentional act of sedition against the State and the citizenry. It was tantamount to an act of terror or revolution. And it was indeed intended to be punished by death, assuming all were truly cognizant of what God had required.

    Today, those who practice witchcraft either did not come from a Christian family or came from one whose child came under the influence of other ungodly families. We wouldn't want to put someone to death if they don't know the truth of the Gospel. But it is sad that as our country becomes increasingly secularized, the religious values are compromised until just any religion may dominate and impose its own false standards of morality. This can't be pleasing to God.

    Exo 19.6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’

    Deut 5.7 “You shall have no other gods before me.... 6 These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life. 3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.




  • #2
    I believe Jesus taught the separation of Church and State along with the Apostles. "my kingdom is not of this world" "he (the state) is the minister of wrath". "Love your enemies". When Jesus abolished Israel's State religion in AD 70, only the church of believers remained. All institutional Churches are unscriptural. They are no different from any business franchise that sells religion to a group of customers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Dave L View Post
      I believe Jesus taught the separation of Church and State along with the Apostles. "my kingdom is not of this world" "he (the state) is the minister of wrath". "Love your enemies". When Jesus abolished Israel's State religion in AD 70, only the church of believers remained. All institutional Churches are unscriptural. They are no different from any business franchise that sells religion to a group of customers.
      On the contrary, Jesus taught all 613 of the laws of Moses, which included what I quoted. He believed Israel should be a holy nation, dedicated to a single God. He did not advocate Roman secularism, nor Roman polytheism. He did not advocate for paganism in Israel.

      He did distinguish between pagan Kingdoms and the heavenly Kingdom of God. His purpose, however, was to unite them, rather than to separate them. Distinguishing them is *not* separating them!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by randyk View Post


        On the contrary, Jesus taught all 613 of the laws of Moses, which included what I quoted. He believed Israel should be a holy nation, dedicated to a single God. He did not advocate Roman secularism, nor Roman polytheism. He did not advocate for paganism in Israel.

        He did distinguish between pagan Kingdoms and the heavenly Kingdom of God. His purpose, however, was to unite them, rather than to separate them. Distinguishing them is *not* separating them!
        When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he removed all physical unbelieving Jews from Israel. They are gentiles with Jewish customs today. Only those who accept him as Messiah does he save for the Father's sakes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he removed all physical unbelieving Jews from Israel. They are gentiles with Jewish customs today. Only those who accept him as Messiah does he save for the Father's sakes.


          What is the source of your doctrine? To whom do you go for your information? There is nothing whatsoever in the Scriptures about the removal of physical Jews from Israel! Indeed, without physical Jews there is no Israel!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by randyk View Post

            What is the source of your doctrine? To whom do you go for your information? There is nothing whatsoever in the Scriptures about the removal of physical Jews from Israel! Indeed, without physical Jews there is no Israel!
            You do not understand the bible history of the Jews and what made one a Jew. Circumcision, not blood made one a Jew until Christ abolished the rite on the cross. The Church is also Israel, not the State of Israel.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              You do not understand the bible history of the Jews and what made one a Jew. Circumcision, not blood made one a Jew until Christ abolished the rite on the cross. The Church is also Israel, not the State of Israel.
              On the contrary, I seem to understand this much better than you do--not that we're in some kind of contest! You seem to begin with some kind of gnostic influence, thinking everything is spiritual, that the spiritual can not be contaminated with physical properties. But the whole idea of Messiah is that God, a spiritual Being, was incarnated as a physical being, without contamination. God created the world with perfect words, with the Word of God. God made things pure from the start. All contaminations came from opposition to His Word.

              God has called the *physical descendants* of Abraham to the faith of Abraham, as well as many other nationalities. Abraham's fatherhood was to extend to all nations, impartially, through Christ's atoning death for human sin. Why would God exclude the physical descendants of Abraham? God blesses those who, like Abraham, believed. And God would naturally bless many of his natural descendants.

              Would you produce children and then bless only children from other families, and exclude your own? I don't think so! Your view of Israel is wrong, but is typical of those who had given up on the promises God made to Israel. Replacement Theology was in the Church for many centuries, but has had to yield to current history, where Israel has been reborn into a nation. I'm sure many of them are still in rebellion against God. But many of them will repent and return to the God of their fathers. Watch and see. Believe. Pray. This pleases God.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by randyk View Post

                On the contrary, I seem to understand this much better than you do--not that we're in some kind of contest! You seem to begin with some kind of gnostic influence, thinking everything is spiritual, that the spiritual can not be contaminated with physical properties. But the whole idea of Messiah is that God, a spiritual Being, was incarnated as a physical being, without contamination. God created the world with perfect words, with the Word of God. God made things pure from the start. All contaminations came from opposition to His Word.

                God has called the *physical descendants* of Abraham to the faith of Abraham, as well as many other nationalities. Abraham's fatherhood was to extend to all nations, impartially, through Christ's atoning death for human sin. Why would God exclude the physical descendants of Abraham? God blesses those who, like Abraham, believed. And God would naturally bless many of his natural descendants.

                Would you produce children and then bless only children from other families, and exclude your own? I don't think so! Your view of Israel is wrong, but is typical of those who had given up on the promises God made to Israel. Replacement Theology was in the Church for many centuries, but has had to yield to current history, where Israel has been reborn into a nation. I'm sure many of them are still in rebellion against God. But many of them will repent and return to the God of their fathers. Watch and see. Believe. Pray. This pleases God.
                And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people [blood relatives]: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)

                Jesus replaced the Old Covenant (and circumcision) with the New Covenant = all are now gentiles with Jewish customs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                  And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people [blood relatives]: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)

                  Jesus replaced the Old Covenant (and circumcision) with the New Covenant = all are now gentiles with Jewish customs.

                  Yes, the New Covenant is a complete makeover from the Old Covenant. Not a single element of the Law is retained, even if the same morality is kept. The Law, encompassing the whole Covenant, was shown to be effective in proving God's judgment of sinful Man was just. It proved that all men have a sin nature and deserve to be excluded from God's Kingdom. But it also pointed to a way beyond itself, where Grace even covers a complete collapse of the Law.

                  None of this has a thing to do with removing family or national distinctions in God's promises made during the OT era. It has nothing to do with removing promises God made before or after that system was in effect.

                  Gal 3.17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by randyk View Post



                    Yes, the New Covenant is a complete makeover from the Old Covenant. Not a single element of the Law is retained, even if the same morality is kept. The Law, encompassing the whole Covenant, was shown to be effective in proving God's judgment of sinful Man was just. It proved that all men have a sin nature and deserve to be excluded from God's Kingdom. But it also pointed to a way beyond itself, where Grace even covers a complete collapse of the Law.

                    None of this has a thing to do with removing family or national distinctions in God's promises made during the OT era. It has nothing to do with removing promises God made before or after that system was in effect.

                    Gal 3.17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
                    Circumcision now abolished, removed unbelieving Israel forever. Only through Christ, whom they hate with a passion, will any be restored as members of Biblical Israel, the Church.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      Circumcision now abolished, removed unbelieving Israel forever. Only through Christ, whom they hate with a passion, will any be restored as members of Biblical Israel, the Church.


                      There is presently a Christian remnant of Israel--they do *not* hate Christ with a passion. There are many non-Jews who presently hate Christ with a passion, and some of them will still be saved. So also, many in Israel who hate Christ with a passion will be saved. Do you think Jews are particularly bad among those in the human race who "hate Christ with a passion?" Don't they have the same opportunity to repent and to receive Christ as any other member of the human race?

                      The abolishment of the need for circumcision under the Law has nothing to do with removal family and national distinctions. We still have 200 or so nations on earth with a great variety of ethnicities. The abolishment of any need for physical circumcision does not remove those distinctions.

                      Only Israel as a *separated people* by circumcision are no longer "separated" from the pagan world by covenant. That is, physical circumcision no longer sets them apart by covenant in the eyes of God, since the Law is passť. When the Covenant of Law failed, grace came to all--not just to the Jews.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by randyk View Post

                        There is presently a Christian remnant of Israel--they do *not* hate Christ with a passion. There are many non-Jews who presently hate Christ with a passion, and some of them will still be saved. So also, many in Israel who hate Christ with a passion will be saved. Do you think Jews are particularly bad among those in the human race who "hate Christ with a passion?" Don't they have the same opportunity to repent and to receive Christ as any other member of the human race?

                        The abolishment of the need for circumcision under the Law has nothing to do with removal family and national distinctions. We still have 200 or so nations on earth with a great variety of ethnicities. The abolishment of any need for physical circumcision does not remove those distinctions.

                        Only Israel as a *separated people* by circumcision are not longer "separated" from the pagan world by covenant. That is, physical circumcision no longer sets them apart by covenant in the eyes of God, since the Law is passť. When the Covenant of Law failed, grace came to all--not just to the Jews.
                        They were not biblical Israel until they converted to Christ. Why does the State of Israel exist today? Because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. Only those who received Christ, thousands in the first century alone remained biblical Israel.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                          They were not biblical Israel until they converted to Christ. Why does the State of Israel exist today? Because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. Only those who received Christ, thousands in the first century alone remained biblical Israel.


                          Sounds like you're creating your own definition of "Israel." There's no basis for that in the Bible. Israel was "Israel" before Christ came, and it remained "Israel" after Christ. Paul referred to Israel as a rebellious nation--thus for Paul, even unbelieving Israel was still "Israel."

                          Israel became a modern nation not out of rejection of Christ but out of a desire to re-form their ancient homeland. Many of them reject Christ in ignorance. Dare you damn them to hell when Christ died to save them in their ignorance? Christ said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by randyk View Post

                            Sounds like you're creating your own definition of "Israel." There's no basis for that in the Bible. Israel was "Israel" before Christ came, and it remained "Israel" after Christ. Paul referred to Israel as a rebellious nation--thus for Paul, even unbelieving Israel was still "Israel."

                            Israel became a modern nation not out of rejection of Christ but out of a desire to re-form their ancient homeland. Many of them reject Christ in ignorance. Dare you damn them to hell when Christ died to save them in their ignorance? Christ said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."
                            The nation of biblical Israel ended with the removal of circumcision on the cross. And physically in 70 AD. Were you born a Christian? Neither are Jews born Jews.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I believe God likes theocracy. However, the US isn't one now and never has been. The original settlers wanted a Christian commonwealth but that's not what happened. The founders were men of the Enlightenment. Our laws and government are based on Biblical principles of virtue and morality; but that's a long way from saying we ever were officially a "Christian" nation, at least according to official US policy. Any religion that practices virtue and morality is accepted. Witchcraft is now tolerated simply because people are catching on that their religion will be tolerated.

                              When Christ returns we'll have a theocracy of truth and justice as God intends.
                              Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X