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  • #46
    Originally posted by randyk View Post


    Jesus is king of all Israel, both obedient and disobedient. The only ones truly excluded from Christ's Kingdom are those who consciously and finally reject him as their King. The lost can always be found. Lost Jews do not stop being Jews. God will restore all Israel by reestablishing a theocracy in Israel--this time a Christian theocracy.

    I agree, the present state of God's Kingdom includes only believers in Israel. But God plans to restore those who are lost.
    But he removed the unbelievers from Israel. Those are not Israel but the worst sort of God-haters you can find. Under his wrath until the end according to Paul.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Dave L View Post
      Boys born to Jews were excommunicated unless circumcised. There is one race - the human race.
      According to the law, circumcision is normally done on the 8th day of birth. Where did you read that babies are excommunicated?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

        According to the law, circumcision is normally done on the 8th day of birth. Where did you read that babies are excommunicated?
        “And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dave L View Post
          But he removed the unbelievers from Israel. Those are not Israel but the worst sort of God-haters you can find. Under his wrath until the end according to Paul.
          I have to go with Paul who in Rom 9-11 argued that lost Israel can be reinstated. While it's true that God's People can come under God's wrath and punishment, it is not true that they can't repent and be restored.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by randyk View Post

            I have to go with Paul who in Rom 9-11 argued that lost Israel can be reinstated. While it's true that God's People can come under God's wrath and punishment, it is not true that they can't repent and be restored.
            Some for the sake of the fathers will be given faith in Christ. They will become reunited with Israel AKA the Church. Paul says the rest are under God's wrath until the end.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post
              “And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)
              I have little patience for people who neither know what they say nor affirm. There is no evidence that an uncircumcised Jew exists. In the 17th century, Baruch de Spinoza, a Dutch Jewish philosopher was expelled from the Jewish community for life, not because he was uncircumcised but rather for his philosophical views that reject the Monotheistic God of his fathers.

              But, if you know any Israelite expelled for being uncircumcised either in the Bible or outside the scriptures, please let me know.



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              • #52
                Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                “And the uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people: he hath broken my covenant.’” Genesis 17:14 (NCPB)
                I have little patience for people who neither know what they say nor affirm. There is no evidence that an uncircumcised Jew exists. In the 17th century, Baruch de Spinoza, a Dutch Jewish philosopher was expelled from the Jewish community for life, not because he was uncircumcised but rather for his philosophical views that reject the Monotheistic God of his fathers.

                But, if you know any Israelite expelled for being uncircumcised either in the Bible or outside the scriptures, please let me know.



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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Trivalee

                  I have little patience for people who neither know what they say nor affirm. There is no evidence that an uncircumcised Jew exists. In the 17th century, Baruch de Spinoza, a Dutch Jewish philosopher was expelled from the Jewish community for life, not because he was uncircumcised but rather for his philosophical views that reject the Monotheistic God of his fathers.

                  But, if you know any Israelite expelled for being uncircumcised either in the Bible or outside the scriptures, please let me know.


                  Esau was circumcised and expelled. Same with Ishmael. As I said, it was circumcision and community. Jesus kicked all unbelievers out of the community by abolishing circumcision and membership in Israel.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                    Esau was circumcised and expelled. Same with Ishmael. As I said, it was circumcision and community. Jesus kicked all unbelievers out of the community by abolishing circumcision and membership in Israel.
                    • Israel as an ethnic people started when Jacob changed his name thereto to Israel. So try again...
                    • I thought you were making a case for Jews expelled for not being circumcised? If we are discussing Jews expelled for any other reason than uncircumcision, then there are many of them. I cited Baruch de Spinoza as an example.
                    • Esau was NOT expelled. Get your facts right.
                    • Ishmael was neither a Jew nor an Israelite.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                      • Israel as an ethnic people started when Jacob changed his name thereto to Israel. So try again...
                      • I thought you were making a case for Jews expelled for not being circumcised? If we are discussing Jews expelled for any other reason than uncircumcision, then there are many of them. I cited Baruch de Spinoza as an example.
                      • Esau was NOT expelled. Get your facts right.
                      • Ishmael was neither a Jew nor an Israelite.
                      Moses uses the terms Israel and Hebrews as synonyms in Exodus.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                        Esau was circumcised and expelled. Same with Ishmael. As I said, it was circumcision and community. Jesus kicked all unbelievers out of the community by abolishing circumcision and membership in Israel.
                        I seem to have missed the scripture, please send me the passage where Esau was "expelled"? As I said, Ishmael was neither an Israelite nor a Jew. Hopefully, you'll understand the difference?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                          I seem to have missed the scripture, please send me the passage where Esau was "expelled"? As I said, Ishmael was neither an Israelite nor a Jew. Hopefully, you'll understand the difference?
                          Moses uses Hebrew and Israel as the same word. Esau would have been circumcised on the 8th day unless you think Isaac was a sinner.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                            Moses uses Hebrew and Israel as the same word. Esau would have been circumcised on the 8th day unless you think Isaac was a sinner.
                            I ask one thing and you off on a tangent. That tells me all I need to know - that you ain't got a clue of what you're saying.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post

                              I ask one thing and you off on a tangent. That tells me all I need to know - that you ain't got a clue of what you're saying.
                              Learn about Israel from the bible for yourself. Avoid today's false prophets who base all on the Pharisee's literal interpretations.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                                Learn about Israel from the bible for yourself. Avoid today's false prophets who base all on the Pharisee's literal interpretations.
                                If you say so. Thank you...

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