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  • Jesus didn't descend to Hell

    This is purely a myth that appears to have started in the 14th century when the line "He descended to Hell" was added to the Apostle's Creed.

    Some televangelists preach it as gospel and even embellish this outrageous false doctrine. They preach that Christ was sent to Hell to suffer our punishment in our place. He was ravaged by Satan and was completely helpless under his torture. One very popular woman televangelist even goes so far as to say you can't be saved unless you believe this lie.

    On the cross Christ said three things that prove absolutely this teaching is false:

    1) "It is finished."

    The cross was sufficient; no further suffering was necessary.

    2) "Today you will be with me in paradise."

    He didn't go to Hell but to paradise.

    3) "Father, into your hands I commit My Spirit."

    His Spirit went to His Father, not Satan.

    This false doctrine has found its way into many churches. I've heard it preached from the pulpit on numerous occasions.
    Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

  • #2
    Great Post!

    Today, the term 'Hell' only means the place of fiery torment for the wicked.

    However, in the middle and Elizabethon English, Hell had several understandings:
    • the place of fiery torment for the wicked
    • the grave
    • a pit where dead bodies are piled

    If one is careful to read the usage of the term, they can tell if 'Hell' means the grave or the place of afterlife punishment.

    Jesus's body descended into the grave, the heart of the earth was the grave. That is the proper context.

    As you say, however, His spirit at death, immediately went to the Father in paradise.

    He gave up the ghost. (another verse on this).

    "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

    There are no scriptures of Jesus being in the place of fiery torment for 3 days, suffering under the flog of satan for our sins there.
    This is made-up baloney. The closest those who hold that view come to any scriptural support, is mis-reading I Peter 3 where Christ preaches to those in prison.
    They assume this prison is the after-death fiery place of torment we call hell. That verse doesn't tell us that at all. It doesn't mention hell at all. Those in prison, are anyone in prison to sin, who Christ eternally preaches to, and invites them to come, just as Abraham did, long before Christ was born in Bethlehem.

    This same erroneous vein of thinking, often comes along with the same teachings that when Jesus cried, 'My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" that it was the Father turning away from the son, and the father sending the son to Hell to pay the price for sin there.

    No, no, no. Jesus said that Psalm, to point the listening audience at the cross, to Psalms 2, which vividly described His death on the cross 1000 years prior to it occuring.
    He was giving them one last testimony of the truth of who He was, that they were crucifying.

    Jesus is YHWH the eternal Great I AM.
    • Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23
    • " I YHWH the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM He. Thus saith YHWH the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH the LORD of hosts; I AM the first, and I AM the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 41:4,44:6
    • "And [the son of Man] laid his right hand upon me, saying Fear not; I AM the first and the last: I AM He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I AM alive for evermore. These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" Rev 1:17, 2:8
    • "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:12

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
      This is purely a myth that appears to have started in the 14th century when the line "He descended to Hell" was added to the Apostle's Creed.

      Some televangelists preach it as gospel and even embellish this outrageous false doctrine. They preach that Christ was sent to Hell to suffer our punishment in our place. He was ravaged by Satan and was completely helpless under his torture. One very popular woman televangelist even goes so far as to say you can't be saved unless you believe this lie.

      On the cross Christ said three things that prove absolutely this teaching is false:

      1) "It is finished."

      The cross was sufficient; no further suffering was necessary.

      2) "Today you will be with me in paradise."

      He didn't go to Hell but to paradise.

      3) "Father, into your hands I commit My Spirit."

      His Spirit went to His Father, not Satan.

      This false doctrine has found its way into many churches. I've heard it preached from the pulpit on numerous occasions.
      This doctrine comes from the book of Ephesians. There is plenty of scriptural support for it which is probably why it was added to the apostle's creed.

      Eph 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

      Paradise was at that time also in the lower parts of the earth. It could be seen from the place of torment:

      Lk 16:22-23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

      Paradise and the place of torment were separated by a large valley:

      Lk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

      Jesus went there to preach to the spirits that were in prison:

      1 Pe 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

      Those he preached to were the Nephilim that had died in the great flood.








      Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shepherdsword View Post

        This doctrine comes from the book of Ephesians. There is plenty of scriptural support for it which is probably why it was added to the apostle's creed.

        Eph 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

        Jesus went there to preach to the spirits that were in prison:

        1 Pe 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
        Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
        If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
        If I take the wings of the morning, Your right hand upholds me;
        When I awake, I am still with You. Psalm 139

        He fashions their hearts individually; Psalm 33:15

        Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed; With the saving strength of His right hand. Psalm 20:7-8

        "You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My Servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He." Isaiah 43:10

        To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you; Acts 3:26
        __________________________________________
        I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness. Psalm 17:15

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pdun459 View Post
          This is purely a myth that appears to have started in the 14th century when the line "He descended to Hell" was added to the Apostle's Creed.
          Matthew 12:38 NKJV

          38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

          39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.



          I didnt know the link didnt work

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Realist1981 View Post

            Matthew 12:38 NKJV

            38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

            39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here.


            the 'heart of the earth' is a metaphor for 'the grave'.
            Jesus died, and His body layed in the grave for three days and three nights.

            Nothing more.
            No secret purgatory underground party house.
            Just the grave.

            Matthew 27:60 "27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again."
            after three days rise from where? The grave.

            Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
            after three days rise from where? The grave.

            Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
            after three days rise from where? The grave.
            Jesus is YHWH the eternal Great I AM.
            • Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23
            • " I YHWH the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM He. Thus saith YHWH the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH the LORD of hosts; I AM the first, and I AM the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 41:4,44:6
            • "And [the son of Man] laid his right hand upon me, saying Fear not; I AM the first and the last: I AM He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I AM alive for evermore. These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" Rev 1:17, 2:8
            • "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:12

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
              the 'heart of the earth' is a metaphor for 'the grave'.
              Thank you.

              Ephesians 4:9 is simply saying that Christ descended from Heaven to earth. Here again, as in Matthew 39:40, the key word is "earth"; it doesn't say Hell. See John 3:13—"No man hath ascended into heaven, but He that came down from heaven."

              All we need are Jesus' statements from the cross. These leave no doubt that He didn't descend into Hell. All the other scriptures must be interpreted in light of what Christ Himself said on the cross.

              If it was so clear from the scriptures, why wasn't it included in the Apostles Creed from the get-go?



              Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

              Comment


              • #8
                Also, the Romanum, the old Roman Creed, was a 2-3 century basis for the later Apostle Creed.

                That older version translated Hell correctly, as the grave, not as Hell, which some mis-translate into a post-Calvary Purgatory Spiritual holding tank.

                As you say, the scriptures multiple times show at death on the Cross, Jesus’ spirit went to the Father in Heaven, and His dead body went to the grave.

                No other option, is scripturally sound. All others are based from tradition or myth or occultic deception.

                The Romanum - Old Roman Creed 2nd Century AD
                I believe in God the Father almighty;
                and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
                Who was born from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
                Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,
                on the third day rose again from the dead,
                ascended to heaven,
                sits at the right hand of the Father,
                whence He will come to judge the living and the dead,
                and in the Holy Spirit,
                the holy Church,
                the remission of sins,
                the resurrection of the flesh
                (the life everlasting).

                Jesus is YHWH the eternal Great I AM.
                • Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23
                • " I YHWH the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM He. Thus saith YHWH the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH the LORD of hosts; I AM the first, and I AM the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 41:4,44:6
                • "And [the son of Man] laid his right hand upon me, saying Fear not; I AM the first and the last: I AM He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I AM alive for evermore. These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" Rev 1:17, 2:8
                • "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:12

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree completely with the OP. I’m skeptical that someone said you have to believe to be saved. I’d have to hear or read directly, in context.
                  Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shepherdsword View Post

                    This doctrine comes from the book of Ephesians. There is plenty of scriptural support for it which is probably why it was added to the apostle's creed.

                    Eph 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

                    Paradise was at that time also in the lower parts of the earth. It could be seen from the place of torment:

                    Lk 16:22-23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

                    Paradise and the place of torment were separated by a large valley:

                    Lk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

                    Jesus went there to preach to the spirits that were in prison:

                    1 Pe 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

                    Those he preached to were the Nephilim that had died in the great flood.







                    Why can I not see Paradise anywhere in Luke 16?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

                      Thank you.

                      Ephesians 4:9 is simply saying that Christ descended from Heaven to earth. Here again, as in Matthew 39:40, the key word is "earth"; it doesn't say Hell. See John 3:13—"No man hath ascended into heaven, but He that came down from heaven."

                      All we need are Jesus' statements from the cross. These leave no doubt that He didn't descend into Hell. All the other scriptures must be interpreted in light of what Christ Himself said on the cross.

                      If it was so clear from the scriptures, why wasn't it included in the Apostles Creed from the get-go?


                      I believe there are some modifiers to earth In Eph 4:9. Are they meaningless?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChangedByHim View Post
                        I agree completely with the OP. I’m skeptical that someone said you have to believe to be saved. I’d have to hear or read directly, in context.
                        "During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, 'Let Him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead the first born-again man."—Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, pp. 35-36.

                        "There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell."—Ibid., pg. 37. (underline mine)

                        In a later edition of this work, Meyer edited out "hell" to read: "unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place." But the immediate context still makes it clear what she's talking about. She also claims Jesus was "born again." This was required for us to be "born again" through faith in Him. This is some of the most outrageous scripture twisting I've ever seen.

                        ChangedByHim, if you're not familiar with the Word of Faith movement and the teachings of many of the televangelists who promote it, I challenge you to look into it; you may be shocked, as I was. A great book on the subject is Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century, by Hank Hanegraaff.
                        Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChangedByHim View Post
                          I agree completely with the OP. I’m skeptical that someone said you have to believe to be saved. I’d have to hear or read directly, in context.
                          "During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, 'Let Him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead the first born-again man."—Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, pp. 35-36.

                          "There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell."—Ibid., pg. 37. (underline mine)

                          In a later edition of this work, Meyer edited out "hell" to read: "unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place." But the immediate context still makes it clear what she's talking about. She also claims Jesus was "born again." This was required for us to be "born again" through faith in Him. This is some of the most outrageous scripture twisting I've ever seen.

                          ChangedByHim, if you're not familiar with the Word of Faith movement and the teachings of many of the televangelists who promote it, I challenge you to look into it; you may be shocked, as I was. A great book on the subject is Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century, by Hank Hanegraaff.
                          Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by percho View Post

                            I believe there are some modifiers to earth In Eph 4:9. Are they meaningless?
                            If you're talking about "lower parts of the earth," consider what David said in Psalms 139:15—"My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth."

                            Is David saying he was woven together in the depths of Hell? Obviously not.
                            Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

                              If you're talking about "lower parts of the earth," consider what David said in Psalms 139:15—"My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth."

                              Is David saying he was woven together in the depths of Hell? Obviously not.
                              Heb 5:7,8 YLT who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,

                              Was the obedience he learned the following obedience? and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,

                              Was it at the moment of that obedience, that he committed his spirit into the hands of the Father, the one able to save him from death? At that very moment was Jesus dead? At that very moment was the body of Jesus still on the cross. At that very moment did the following stated by David concerning the fruit of his loins, Jesus, apply to Jesus? Acts 2:27 That not, you shall be forsaking the soul of me into of Sheol (Hebrew) Hades (Greek, genitive case) Did that state of death last for three days, even more accurate, three days and three nights?

                              Hebrews 5:9 YLT and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

                              having been made perfect ----- Now what ever that means; Did it take place during those three days, his spirit was in the hands of the Father, his body of flesh was on the cross and in the tomb of Joseph and the soul of him had descended into Hades / Sheol?

                              For a comparison of that going down into Sheol see Genesis 37:33-35 And he discerneth it, and saith, 'My son's coat! an evil beast hath devoured him; torn -- torn is Joseph!' And Jacob rendeth his raiment, and putteth sackcloth on his loins, and becometh a mourner for his son many days, and all his sons and all his daughters rise to comfort him, and he refuseth to comfort himself, and saith, 'For -- I go down mourning unto my son, to Sheol,' and his father weepeth for him.

                              Jacob was speaking of dying and being in Sheol with Joseph, whom he believe had been eaten, not buried in a grave.

                              Not positive but I think Sheol was believed to be the nether parts of the earth, the core of the earth.

                              Comment

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