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  • Identification

    My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

    What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

    By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

    We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

    And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

    What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?

  • #2
    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

    What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

    By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

    We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

    And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

    What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?
    What you describe, "negativity"... is better known as "fiery darts."

    Eph 6: 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

    Paul is led to make a strong point concerning our NEED to exercise faith, with the words... "above all." This is the character of "faith" dealing with endurance/perseverance where we "surrender" all to God. Trusting in Jesus is where our faith is active in quenching such (any) negativity. When we trust this way, Jesus becomes or IS, our shield.

    --
    Slug1--out

    ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

    ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

    Comment


    • #3
      I never find comfort when dealing with my own identity or comparing myself to Christ. While I share the "experience of victory" as a result of His accomplishment, those times when I'm not feeling fulfilled spiritually are almost always because I've taken my eyes off the Lord and am examining myself, one of my faults, or the faults of someone else. I think it is important to be reminded of our status as saved saints and children of God from time to time. But rather than thinking about all the things "we have access to," or the "gifts" He has given, or the blessings we inherit, or our "growth" as Christians ... instead we should focus on who Jesus is and learn more about His identity. Work for His glory and His will and His authority. As we learn more about His character, rather than trying to improve our own, those times of discouragement fade away.
      我们有这盼望,就像灵魂的锚,又稳当又坚固,通过幔子直进到里面。
      This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and reliable...
      (Hebrews 6:19 CNV / NASB)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

        What you describe, "negativity"... is better known as "fiery darts."

        Eph 6: 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

        Paul is led to make a strong point concerning our NEED to exercise faith, with the words... "above all." This is the character of "faith" dealing with endurance/perseverance where we "surrender" all to God. Trusting in Jesus is where our faith is active in quenching such (any) negativity. When we trust this way, Jesus becomes or IS, our shield.
        Thanks, I believe you're right! I hope to still be standing when the smoke clears!
        ...I trust you will be too!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
          I never find comfort when dealing with my own identity or comparing myself to Christ. While I share the "experience of victory" as a result of His accomplishment, those times when I'm not feeling fulfilled spiritually are almost always because I've taken my eyes off the Lord and am examining myself, one of my faults, or the faults of someone else. I think it is important to be reminded of our status as saved saints and children of God from time to time. But rather than thinking about all the things "we have access to," or the "gifts" He has given, or the blessings we inherit, or our "growth" as Christians ... instead we should focus on who Jesus is and learn more about His identity. Work for His glory and His will and His authority. As we learn more about His character, rather than trying to improve our own, those times of discouragement fade away.
          I've just sort of "dug in," watching to see how God will work out each and every negative experience I go through. It's probably good not to focus on what stands before us in our path to the New Jerusalem, the Eternal City. So yes, I want to go easy on myself, and look at Christ's good character, his compassion, his mercy. It feels like salt is rubbed in the wound, as my pride is gradually whittled away. How painful life can be. But it helps nobody to stew in my own negative juices. Thanks for the uplift! I will try to do that, focus more on Jesus than the theology of what I should or shouldn't have. After all, he is the source of it all, whether I have it right or not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by randyk View Post

            I've just sort of "dug in," watching to see how God will work out each and every negative experience I go through. It's probably good not to focus on what stands before us in our path to the New Jerusalem, the Eternal City. So yes, I want to go easy on myself, and look at Christ's good character, his compassion, his mercy. It feels like salt is rubbed in the wound, as my pride is gradually whittled away. How painful life can be. But it helps nobody to stew in my own negative juices. Thanks for the uplift! I will try to do that, focus more on Jesus than the theology of what I should or shouldn't have. After all, he is the source of it all, whether I have it right or not.
            Thanks, I believe you're right! I hope to still be standing when the smoke clears!

            ...I trust you will be too!




            During the worse of times, specifically with others persecuting me and everything seemingly coming apart, I reached a point where all I could do was take a step forward in the purpose God placed before me. This allowed God to teach me instead of me, teaching me. Not that I "stopped" studying :-) All that God promises, does come together when we "walk" out even the little that we have learned and as we walk, the learning greatly increases. Which leads to greater application... as A mentions, this "is" when what the Body has access too all the provision = becomes fruitful (manifest) as well, as one is becoming more Christ-like.

            From this experience, I will say that a person who walks 100% of the 10% of the Bible they know, is closer to God than the person who knows 80% of the Bible, but only walks 10% of what they know. I've had people tell me that a person walking 10% of 80% of the Bible is walking MORE then anyone who is walking 100% of 10% of the Bible. If I could raise one eyebrow I would... some are academicing (is this a real word?), themselves away from Christ.
            --
            Slug1--out

            ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

            ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by randyk View Post
              My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

              What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

              By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

              We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

              And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

              What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?
              Great post. I've been thinking about some of these ideas myself lately.

              If we have faith to believe Christ rose from the dead that we might have life; we also participate in His death by faith. We must believe our sinful nature has been crucified with Christ just as much as we believe we have life in Him. This, after all, was the purpose of the cross.

              "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."—Galatians 6:14.

              ETA—I heard a great message the other night. It was on hope. The pastor kept emphasizing the meaning of Biblical hope: A confident expectation of the good. This has been been a tremendous comfort to me and perhaps will be to you also. God bless.
              Love is patient, love is kind; it does not envy, it does not boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                During the worse of times, specifically with others persecuting me and everything seemingly coming apart, I reached a point where all I could do was take a step forward in the purpose God placed before me. This allowed God to teach me instead of me, teaching me. Not that I "stopped" studying :-) All that God promises, does come together when we "walk" out even the little that we have learned and as we walk, the learning greatly increases. Which leads to greater application... as A mentions, this "is" when what the Body has access too all the provision = becomes fruitful (manifest) as well, as one is becoming more Christ-like.

                From this experience, I will say that a person who walks 100% of the 10% of the Bible they know, is closer to God than the person who knows 80% of the Bible, but only walks 10% of what they know. I've had people tell me that a person walking 10% of 80% of the Bible is walking MORE then anyone who is walking 100% of 10% of the Bible. If I could raise one eyebrow I would... some are academicing (is this a real word?), themselves away from Christ.
                Very aptly put!! I would praise the person who studies to get 80% learned. But it isn't worth much if it isn't producing the equivalent 80% change in our lives! The word of God isn't there just to stuff our heads with knowledge, puffing us up! It's there to help us on the highway to holiness, teaching us obedience, humility, and best of all--love. Thanks for some very wise words! It's worth very much more than a few gold stars!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pdun459 View Post

                  Great post. I've been thinking about some of these ideas myself lately.

                  If we have faith to believe Christ rose from the dead that we might have life; we also participate in His death by faith. We must believe our sinful nature has been crucified with Christ just as much as we believe we have life in Him. This, after all, was the purpose of the cross.

                  "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."—Galatians 6:14.

                  ETA—I heard a great message the other night. It was on hope. The pastor kept emphasizing the meaning of Biblical hope: A confident expectation of the good. This has been been a tremendous comfort to me and perhaps will be to you also. God bless.
                  I do like that definition of "hope!" It is in trusting in God's good character that enables me to see past all of the bad stuff happening presently to expect that things will "work together for good." What else gives me confidence that things will have a good design other than my knowledge that God is good?

                  To be honest, I've faced the fact that God does let very bad tings happen in this lifetime and in history. But if you will look at the design of all these events, they somehow are all leading up to rewarding the just and punishing the cause of evil. All is leading inexorably towards the Kingdom of bliss, which is nothing less than eternal fellowship with God and with one another.

                  I think you have a similar revelation to what I have on this "identification" thing. I've been hearing it for years, but am now applying it as you suggest. We identify with Christ not just to exhibit his spiritual righteousness, but also to identify with his death. Our condemnation is dead, and the power of the carnal life is also dead in comparison with the righteousness Christ has now given us by his Spirit.

                  We may still be living in these sin-infected bodies, and we certainly still have sins. But the righteousness we've been given is real. The love we have is real. And it is more powerful than our carnal attitudes and exhibitions of rage, jealousy, and envy.

                  In other words, "identification" with Christ has a practical application everyday as we face our own flawed humanity. We can always resort to Christ's love in the midst of our despondency and apparently defeat. We can be victorious through Christ, even if it doesn't always *feel* that way.

                  Thanks much. It's encouraging that others out there are honest enough to admit their deficiencies and still proclaim the positive Gospel of Christ.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by randyk View Post


                    Very aptly put!! I would praise the person who studies to get 80% learned. But it isn't worth much if it isn't producing the equivalent 80% change in our lives! The word of God isn't there just to stuff our heads with knowledge, puffing us up! It's there to help us on the highway to holiness, teaching us obedience, humility, and best of all--love. Thanks for some very wise words! It's worth very much more than a few gold stars!
                    Brother, another point I'd like to raise. It is WHEN we're being persecuted due to our faith, is WHEN we can truly identify with Christ. As hard as it is to understand, the greater one is persecuted for Christ, the greater is their assurance in Christ.
                    --
                    Slug1--out

                    ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

                    ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

                    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                      Brother, another point I'd like to raise. It is WHEN we're being persecuted due to our faith, is WHEN we can truly identify with Christ. As hard as it is to understand, the greater one is persecuted for Christ, the greater is their assurance in Christ.
                      No matter how we suffer as Christians I think God takes note and is proud of us when we endure in our love, when we refuse to give up our faith, when we choose righteousness over self-pity and rage. Tribulations can be very, very painful. But God's power is great enough to sustain us. Thank you for your thoughts.

                      Comment

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