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  • Salvation by Faith and Repentance

    Is repentance from sins necessary to receive eternal life? What is Salvation by Faith? Does it require repentance or not?

    I don't believe it is just *believing* that God exists, nor even that Jesus is the Messiah. Demons have believed this. They just don't believe that Jesus' role enables him to do for sinners what he promised to do. They hold sins against people so that they can't obtain eternal life. They want people to be eternally cursed as they themselves are.

    So true faith in Christ is believing in his eternal atonement, which allows us to have eternal life. The Law pointed the way, but could not get past the record of human sin. But Jesus' atonement allows men past the obstacle of sin to inherit eternal life.

    The Law was only a temporary path that brought temporal salvation until death. But believing in Jesus' atonement allows us to benefit from the life of Jesus, who forgives us our sins, and gives us resurrection from the dead.

    Believing in Jesus is not just believing that he forgives our sin. Anybody can believe that, whether it's true or not. More, it is believing that forgiveness is conditioned on repentance, and that we are to live in obedience to the righteousness of Christ. As the Law was a path of righteousness, bringing temporary forgiveness, so the Gospel is a path of righteousness that brings eternal forgiveness.

    So believing in Jesus is believing in his righteousness and in his requirement that we choose to live by it. In doing so we also receive eternal pardon for our sins.

    Temporal Salvation by the Law:

    Deut 28.1 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God.

    Eternal Salvation by the Gospel:

    Mark 1.15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

  • #2
    Originally posted by randyk View Post
    Is repentance from sins necessary to receive eternal life? What is Salvation by Faith? Does it require repentance or not?

    I don't believe it is just *believing* that God exists, nor even that Jesus is the Messiah. Demons have believed this. They just don't believe that Jesus' role enables him to do for sinners what he promised to do. They hold sins against people so that they can't obtain eternal life. They want people to be eternally cursed as they themselves are.

    So true faith in Christ is believing in his eternal atonement, which allows us to have eternal life. The Law pointed the way, but could not get past the record of human sin. But Jesus' atonement allows men past the obstacle of sin to inherit eternal life.

    The Law was only a temporary path that brought temporal salvation until death. But believing in Jesus' atonement allows us to benefit from the life of Jesus, who forgives us our sins, and gives us resurrection from the dead.

    Believing in Jesus is not just believing that he forgives our sin. Anybody can believe that, whether it's true or not. More, it is believing that forgiveness is conditioned on repentance, and that we are to live in obedience to the righteousness of Christ. As the Law was a path of righteousness, bringing temporary forgiveness, so the Gospel is a path of righteousness that brings eternal forgiveness.

    So believing in Jesus is believing in his righteousness and in his requirement that we choose to live by it. In doing so we also receive eternal pardon for our sins.

    Temporal Salvation by the Law:

    Deut 28.1 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God.

    Eternal Salvation by the Gospel:

    Mark 1.15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
    I love the teachings of Peter. At the day of Pentecost, it was only until the multitude heard the preaching of the gospel until they were pricked in their hearts. Then they asked Peter, "what shall we do?"

    Peter's words to them was to repent and be baptized and you shall receive the Holy Ghost.

    You made great point regarding faith. I agree, believing or having faith is a requirement, but by itself is not enough. For even the devils fear and tremble. They know for a fact that Jesus is the Son of God. They know that God made the heavens and the earth. They know that God breathed life in Adams nostrils. There is no shadow of doubt the devils have faith. But faith is dead without works. The works James was referring, was not such as helping an old person cross the street. The works he was referring to concerning faith, is taking action in obedience.

    The obedience is to trust in the Lord with all your heart. This is more than Faith. To trust in the Lord is putting faith into action. To trust Jesus as your Savior is putting faith to work. And another, faith is great, but without charity it does not profit anything. So our faith must be meshed with hope and charity. Abide in faith hope and charity. But the greatest of these three is charity.

    This is why the devils fall short. They have no Charity. Neither do they trust in the Lord. Neither do they obey. Neither have they repented of their sins. They have never called upon the name of the Lord except in blasphemy.

    But back to your question. Is repentance necessary to be saved? What is Repentance? Repentance begins with having a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Repentance is put into action when we acknowledge that we are a sinner in need of a savior, with a commitment to walk in Christ. As a result will bring about a renewing of the mind and a change in heart.

    So yes, we must have faith, with a repentative heart and Jesus will come into our life and fill us with his holy spirit. Our sins are covered. Is this to say we will be sinless? No, we are not sinless. But by our sins being covered by Christ's blood, means that God does not see our sin nature. Therefore, we can be made nigh unto God. When God sees us, he only sees the blood of his beloved Son. It is our sins that separate us from God. Therefore our sins must be dealt with. Are sins are dealt with by the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ.

    Here is something to think upon. Jesus died for us while we were yet in our sins. Jesus gave his life for us, as he was brought out to where we were. We were outside the gate and Jesus was taken outside the gate of the city where we were, to be crucified. It was outside this gate where our sins are covered by his blood. While we were yet sinners, at the mercy seat, having his blood poured out upon us. Being crucified with Christ outside the gate. And our dead, stinky, sin laden carcass was left outside that gate, to be buried. Our old man of sin is still there! But our spirit is resurrected unto life, being inside the gate of the kingdom. This is being born again. Our sins are covered, and the old man of sin is outside the gate. But the new man is born again, being inside the gate of the heavenly kingdom of Jesus Christ.

    Acts 2
    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

      I love the teachings of Peter. At the day of Pentecost, it was only until the multitude heard the preaching of the gospel until they were pricked in their hearts. Then they asked Peter, "what shall we do?"

      Peter's words to them was to repent and be baptized and you shall receive the Holy Ghost.

      You made great point regarding faith. I agree, believing or having faith is a requirement, but by itself is not enough. For even the devils fear and tremble. They know for a fact that Jesus is the Son of God. They know that God made the heavens and the earth. They know that God breathed life in Adams nostrils. There is no shadow of doubt the devils have faith. But faith is dead without works. The works James was referring, was not such as helping an old person cross the street. The works he was referring to concerning faith, is taking action in obedience.

      The obedience is to trust in the Lord with all your heart. This is more than Faith. To trust in the Lord is putting faith into action. To trust Jesus as your Savior is putting faith to work. And another, faith is great, but without charity it does not profit anything. So our faith must be meshed with hope and charity. Abide in faith hope and charity. But the greatest of these three is charity.

      This is why the devils fall short. They have no Charity. Neither do they trust in the Lord. Neither do they obey. Neither have they repented of their sins. They have never called upon the name of the Lord except in blasphemy.

      But back to your question. Is repentance necessary to be saved? What is Repentance? Repentance begins with having a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Repentance is put into action when we acknowledge that we are a sinner in need of a savior, with a commitment to walk in Christ. As a result will bring about a renewing of the mind and a change in heart.

      So yes, we must have faith, with a repentative heart and Jesus will come into our life and fill us with his holy spirit. Our sins are covered. Is this to say we will be sinless? No, we are not sinless. But by our sins being covered by Christ's blood, means that God does not see our sin nature. Therefore, we can be made nigh unto God. When God sees us, he only sees the blood of his beloved Son. It is our sins that separate us from God. Therefore our sins must be dealt with. Are sins are dealt with by the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ.

      Here is something to think upon. Jesus died for us while we were yet in our sins. Jesus gave his life for us, as he was brought out to where we were. We were outside the gate and Jesus was taken outside the gate of the city where we were, to be crucified. It was outside this gate where our sins are covered by his blood. While we were yet sinners, at the mercy seat, having his blood poured out upon us. Being crucified with Christ outside the gate. And our dead, stinky, sin laden carcass was left outside that gate, to be buried. Our old man of sin is still there! But our spirit is resurrected unto life, being inside the gate of the kingdom. This is being born again. Our sins are covered, and the old man of sin is outside the gate. But the new man is born again, being inside the gate of the heavenly kingdom of Jesus Christ.

      Acts 2
      37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
      38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
      39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
      Yea, I know trust is part of faith. But I'm talking about *repentance,* which is a giving up of your life for the life of Christ. We apologize for going our own way, without God, and determine, from now on, to live with God.

      That's what I believe Christ came to do, to give his spiritual life to us as a free gift, if we were willing to give up our carnal life for his spiritual life. We don't do this just as a momentary, transient thing, but rather, as a permanent decision, to lose one life for another. It is like a marriage commitment, and it is sealed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in our heart.

      The choice to embrace Christ in this way is, in fact, a form of repentance, the kind of repentance that is needed. It isn't just a one-time repentance, but repentance of a whole way of living in order to live in a whole different way.

      The kind of "trust' you talk about is actually a relationship, or a partnership. We choose to no longer live for ourselves, but for God. We choose never again to live independent of God, but to live in association with God, deferring to Him.

      Yes, Christians can sin, and Christians can backslide. But the choice to embrace God in our heart is a life-time choice. Turning away from it does not always mean we give up our salvation, even if it means we give up the spiritual fight. God can endure all kinds of trouble in our lives without leaving us forever.

      So I'm talking about a special kind of repentance, not just an independent work of repentance that we do on our own. To truly repent, we need the conviction of God's Holy Spirit. And to receive Christ in our heart, we need that word from God to convict us of our need to do that. Thanks for your comments. There was a good feel to them!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by randyk View Post
        Yea, I know trust is part of faith. But I'm talking about *repentance,* which is a giving up of your life for the life of Christ. We apologize for going our own way, without God, and determine, from now on, to live with God.

        That's what I believe Christ came to do, to give his spiritual life to us as a free gift, ...
        “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
        25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2

        My sheep hear my voice;.... 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; John 10

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by randyk View Post

          Yea, I know trust is part of faith. But I'm talking about *repentance,* which is a giving up of your life for the life of Christ. We apologize for going our own way, without God, and determine, from now on, to live with God.

          That's what I believe Christ came to do, to give his spiritual life to us as a free gift, if we were willing to give up our carnal life for his spiritual life. We don't do this just as a momentary, transient thing, but rather, as a permanent decision, to lose one life for another. It is like a marriage commitment, and it is sealed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in our heart.

          The choice to embrace Christ in this way is, in fact, a form of repentance, the kind of repentance that is needed. It isn't just a one-time repentance, but repentance of a whole way of living in order to live in a whole different way.

          The kind of "trust' you talk about is actually a relationship, or a partnership. We choose to no longer live for ourselves, but for God. We choose never again to live independent of God, but to live in association with God, deferring to Him.

          Yes, Christians can sin, and Christians can backslide. But the choice to embrace God in our heart is a life-time choice. Turning away from it does not always mean we give up our salvation, even if it means we give up the spiritual fight. God can endure all kinds of trouble in our lives without leaving us forever.

          So I'm talking about a special kind of repentance, not just an independent work of repentance that we do on our own. To truly repent, we need the conviction of God's Holy Spirit. And to receive Christ in our heart, we need that word from God to convict us of our need to do that. Thanks for your comments. There was a good feel to them!
          Amen! All you say in you post is absolutely true. I would not want to say anything with intent to take away from what you said.

          Repentance is a heart issue and not an action or a work. To repent is a decision of the heart to follow after Christ. But true repentance will bring forth an action or good work. Good works is a product of repentance.

          We know that Faith comes from hearing the gospel. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every man who hears. Jesus brought the gospel when he came into the world.

          So who has faith? Those who hears the gospel (with the ears of the heart) and believes. Who are these that hear? Isn't it the sinner that hears the gospel?

          So when they hear the gospel and believe the gospel, then this produces faith. So when we hear the gospel, the spirit of the gospel will stir us up within and work within us a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And because we have acquired faith by hearing the gospel, then the same faith will allow us to know that we are a sinner in need of a savior. It allows us to see ourselves as we really are, that we are in need of being saved.

          Once we are able to see ourselves in this condition and having faith because we heard the preaching of the gospel. Now we can call upon Jesus and ask him to come into our life and save us.


          This is when true repentance takes place, is at this point in our life. The point that we ask Jesus to save us. It is once we have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. This contrite spirit drives change in our heart, causing us to choose light over the darkness. Repentance is not a one and done and it's over. Yes, as a sinner, we come to terms with a need to change. But we live our lives out with a repentative heart. As a believer, we are continuingly examining our heart and looking for areas to improve. But salvation is not about sinless perfection. Salvation is a sin issue. To achieve salvation, our sins must be dealt with. There is nothing we can do to absolve our sins. Yes we repent and continually change. But our sins are still there. They are continually with us.

          Only Jesus blood can remove our sins. But it comes by faith and repentance. And when I speak of repentance, I speak of a change in heart and not an act of doing good deeds.

          Again, I will stress. Being saved is not about sinless perfection. So we will sin. Our sins are forever with our flesh. But the blood of Jesus is still there. The blood has not dried up or vanished. This by no means is an excuse to sin. But God does not see our sins. He only sees the blood of his dear Son.

          The difference between the sins that a sinner commits and the sins that a believer commits is of the heart that sin is conceived from. There is no difference in the actual sin. The difference is in the heart.

          When we hear the gospel of salvation preached and because we hear (we hear with our heart), then faith is produced. When faith is produced and the spirit of the gospel stirs up our heart and causes us to have a broken heart and contrite spirit. When we repent and ask God to come into our life, God performs an operation on our heart. God takes out the old stony heart and gives us a new heart. This heart is a heart of flesh and he pours his spirit out upon it. Faith with repentance is the water and the spirit of Jesus (as he taught to Nicodemus) that is poured upon our heart wherein we are born again. It is at this exact point that the blood of Jesus is in our heart.

          So back to the difference of the sin of a sinner man verses the sins of a believer is, the sins of a believer are covered. Not just past sins, but all future sins. With the condition that we continually confess our faults and repent. The new heart of flesh that is covered with the blood of Jesus will drive us to conviction, causing us to repent. You never have to worry about going too far, when you have a heart that is covered with the blood of Jesus. We have a new heart and it is not the same stony heart that we had when we was a sinner man.

          The heart of a believer will always want to please Jesus. It will always seek his glory. Yet it will always sin. But God does not see the sin. God only sees the blood of Jesus.


          And this is the mystery of God that was hidden since the foundation of the world.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

            Amen! All you say in you post is absolutely true. I would not want to say anything with intent to take away from what you said.

            Repentance is a heart issue and not an action or a work. To repent is a decision of the heart to follow after Christ. But true repentance will bring forth an action or good work. Good works is a product of repentance.

            We know that Faith comes from hearing the gospel. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every man who hears. Jesus brought the gospel when he came into the world.

            So who has faith? Those who hears the gospel (with the ears of the heart) and believes. Who are these that hear? Isn't it the sinner that hears the gospel?

            So when they hear the gospel and believe the gospel, then this produces faith. So when we hear the gospel, the spirit of the gospel will stir us up within and work within us a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And because we have acquired faith by hearing the gospel, then the same faith will allow us to know that we are a sinner in need of a savior. It allows us to see ourselves as we really are, that we are in need of being saved.

            Once we are able to see ourselves in this condition and having faith because we heard the preaching of the gospel. Now we can call upon Jesus and ask him to come into our life and save us.


            This is when true repentance takes place, is at this point in our life. The point that we ask Jesus to save us. It is once we have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. This contrite spirit drives change in our heart, causing us to choose light over the darkness. Repentance is not a one and done and it's over. Yes, as a sinner, we come to terms with a need to change. But we live our lives out with a repentative heart. As a believer, we are continuingly examining our heart and looking for areas to improve. But salvation is not about sinless perfection. Salvation is a sin issue. To achieve salvation, our sins must be dealt with. There is nothing we can do to absolve our sins. Yes we repent and continually change. But our sins are still there. They are continually with us.

            Only Jesus blood can remove our sins. But it comes by faith and repentance. And when I speak of repentance, I speak of a change in heart and not an act of doing good deeds.

            Again, I will stress. Being saved is not about sinless perfection. So we will sin. Our sins are forever with our flesh. But the blood of Jesus is still there. The blood has not dried up or vanished. This by no means is an excuse to sin. But God does not see our sins. He only sees the blood of his dear Son.

            The difference between the sins that a sinner commits and the sins that a believer commits is of the heart that sin is conceived from. There is no difference in the actual sin. The difference is in the heart.

            When we hear the gospel of salvation preached and because we hear (we hear with our heart), then faith is produced. When faith is produced and the spirit of the gospel stirs up our heart and causes us to have a broken heart and contrite spirit. When we repent and ask God to come into our life, God performs an operation on our heart. God takes out the old stony heart and gives us a new heart. This heart is a heart of flesh and he pours his spirit out upon it. Faith with repentance is the water and the spirit of Jesus (as he taught to Nicodemus) that is poured upon our heart wherein we are born again. It is at this exact point that the blood of Jesus is in our heart.

            So back to the difference of the sin of a sinner man verses the sins of a believer is, the sins of a believer are covered. Not just past sins, but all future sins. With the condition that we continually confess our faults and repent. The new heart of flesh that is covered with the blood of Jesus will drive us to conviction, causing us to repent. You never have to worry about going too far, when you have a heart that is covered with the blood of Jesus. We have a new heart and it is not the same stony heart that we had when we was a sinner man.

            The heart of a believer will always want to please Jesus. It will always seek his glory. Yet it will always sin. But God does not see the sin. God only sees the blood of Jesus.


            And this is the mystery of God that was hidden since the foundation of the world.
            A lot of good stuff you said there! I condense it down to just a few things for myself. Repentance unto Salvation is a response to God's Word to us, inviting us not just to do a few good works, but more, to turn the entire course of our lives around so that God's Word is placed in our heart, informing our every decision. All of our good works are determined to be inspired by God's Word--not just some. We repent by giving our entire carnal life over to his spiritual life, which is produced by his Word when we invite it to take control of our entire lives.

            People in this world can respond, within their conscience, to God's Word, and can actually do good works. But this alone doesn't save them. The kind of repentance that saves is the complete change of our heart so that we choose to live by God's Word, and not by our own plans alone.

            You're right that this is all determined in the heart, the center of our being, at the place where we determine where all our decisions will be made, and not just some decisions. When we turn our lives over to Jesus we still have a Sin Nature. But in turning our whole lives over to Jesus, we have chosen to make God's Word the sole determiner of what we do in life.

            When we fail to do it, we know we do wrong, and repent of it. But for the most part, we have chosen to make our standard of the "Good" the matter of turning our whole lives over to be spiritual men, and not carnal men. We may fail, but it is the decision to place Christ in the core of our being that determines the kind of repentance that leads to Salvation.

            Faith and Repentance thus are indistinguishable. True Faith inspires the kind of repentance that Jesus called for, the New Birth, or a complete change from the Carnal Man to the Spiritual Man.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by randyk View Post

              A lot of good stuff you said there! I condense it down to just a few things for myself. Repentance unto Salvation is a response to God's Word to us, inviting us not just to do a few good works, but more, to turn the entire course of our lives around so that God's Word is placed in our heart, informing our every decision. All of our good works are determined to be inspired by God's Word--not just some. We repent by giving our entire carnal life over to his spiritual life, which is produced by his Word when we invite it to take control of our entire lives.

              People in this world can respond, within their conscience, to God's Word, and can actually do good works. But this alone doesn't save them. The kind of repentance that saves is the complete change of our heart so that we choose to live by God's Word, and not by our own plans alone.

              You're right that this is all determined in the heart, the center of our being, at the place where we determine where all our decisions will be made, and not just some decisions. When we turn our lives over to Jesus we still have a Sin Nature. But in turning our whole lives over to Jesus, we have chosen to make God's Word the sole determiner of what we do in life.

              When we fail to do it, we know we do wrong, and repent of it. But for the most part, we have chosen to make our standard of the "Good" the matter of turning our whole lives over to be spiritual men, and not carnal men. We may fail, but it is the decision to place Christ in the core of our being that determines the kind of repentance that leads to Salvation.

              Faith and Repentance thus are indistinguishable. True Faith inspires the kind of repentance that Jesus called for, the New Birth, or a complete change from the Carnal Man to the Spiritual Man.
              You have made a great summary of faith and salvation. You have the full knowledge and understanding of exactly what faith is, what true repentance is, and what salvation is. I would say you made the conclusion that our faith alone will not save us. But faith combined with true repentance is the road that leads to salvation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by randyk View Post
                Is repentance from sins necessary to receive eternal life? What is Salvation by Faith? Does it require repentance or not?

                I don't believe it is just *believing* that God exists, nor even that Jesus is the Messiah. Demons have believed this. They just don't believe that Jesus' role enables him to do for sinners what he promised to do. They hold sins against people so that they can't obtain eternal life. They want people to be eternally cursed as they themselves are.

                So true faith in Christ is believing in his eternal atonement, which allows us to have eternal life. The Law pointed the way, but could not get past the record of human sin. But Jesus' atonement allows men past the obstacle of sin to inherit eternal life.

                The Law was only a temporary path that brought temporal salvation until death. But believing in Jesus' atonement allows us to benefit from the life of Jesus, who forgives us our sins, and gives us resurrection from the dead.

                Believing in Jesus is not just believing that he forgives our sin. Anybody can believe that, whether it's true or not. More, it is believing that forgiveness is conditioned on repentance, and that we are to live in obedience to the righteousness of Christ. As the Law was a path of righteousness, bringing temporary forgiveness, so the Gospel is a path of righteousness that brings eternal forgiveness.

                So believing in Jesus is believing in his righteousness and in his requirement that we choose to live by it. In doing so we also receive eternal pardon for our sins.

                Temporal Salvation by the Law:

                Deut 28.1 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God.

                Eternal Salvation by the Gospel:

                Mark 1.15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
                This promotes Salvation by works, by what a person does.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                  This promotes Salvation by works, by what a person does.
                  I think randyk is expressing that repentance through faith is a prerequisite of salvation.

                  But this is a great topic. If this is what you are referring to, then let me ask.
                  1) Do you believe repentance is a work? If so, how do you define repentance?
                  2) Do you believe you can be saved without repentance? If so, please expand.
                  3) Do you believe you can achieve salvation without works? If not, what is your definition of works?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

                    I think randyk is expressing that repentance through faith is a prerequisite of salvation.

                    But this is a great topic. If this is what you are referring to, then let me ask.
                    1) Do you believe repentance is a work? If so, how do you define repentance?
                    2) Do you believe you can be saved without repentance? If so, please expand.
                    3) Do you believe you can achieve salvation without works? If not, what is your definition of works?
                    What is the standard of repentance? An honest question because dogma insists that unless a person confesses to another Christian, it doesn't count. They will insist repentance can't be done in a closet, alone and calling on the name of the Lord. There are some who will not recognize a person who repented in the living room of their home, no one around... as saved by God upon their belief in that living room. By having the Holy Spirit now in them, they may have repented of every sin illuminated by the Holy Spirit over the next 30 minutes as they cry and sob in joy of their salvation and God forgiving each sin repented off. Nope... dogmatism will reject such repentance and say the work MUST be done before Christians.

                    Thus why scripture informs mankind that NO work, works. If any work did work and salvation is a product of a work, such as repentance, by demanding that the repentance MUST be done in the presence of other Christians, is a form of boasting.
                    --
                    Slug1--out

                    ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

                    ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

                    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

                      What is the standard of repentance? An honest question because dogma insists that unless a person confesses to another Christian, it doesn't count. They will insist repentance can't be done in a closet, alone and calling on the name of the Lord. There are some who will not recognize a person who repented in the living room of their home, no one around... as saved by God upon their belief in that living room. By having the Holy Spirit now in them, they may have repented of every sin illuminated by the Holy Spirit over the next 30 minutes as they cry and sob in joy of their salvation and God forgiving each sin repented off. Nope... dogmatism will reject such repentance and say the work MUST be done before Christians.

                      Thus why scripture informs mankind that NO work, works. If any work did work and salvation is a product of a work, such as repentance, by demanding that the repentance MUST be done in the presence of other Christians, is a form of boasting.
                      Yeah, this is a somewhat radical in my opinion.

                      While yes, I do believe that confession is a requirement of salvation. The bible says if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart.... you will be saved.
                      Romans 10
                      9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
                      10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

                      But to understand the true meaning of what Paul was saying, you have to closely examine the next verse 10. It's with the heart that we believe. And because a converts heart is upon Jesus, then confession will be made. Its a knee jerk reaction. Just like if a knat flies into your eye. You will blink. No questions asked. That eye is going to close.

                      The bible says that where our heart is, there will also our treasure be found. But confession can be made in numerous ways. Our actions, our appearance, our conversation. So, yes, we will confess Jesus if we are one of his own.

                      Now I will send out a shock wave by my next statement. We cannot be saved by faith alone. And yes, our works will not save us either. But there is work that is required on our part, in order to be saved.

                      We can discuss this as much as you wish.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

                        Yeah, this is a somewhat radical in my opinion.

                        While yes, I do believe that confession is a requirement of salvation. The bible says if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart.... you will be saved.
                        Romans 10
                        9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
                        10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

                        But to understand the true meaning of what Paul was saying, you have to closely examine the next verse 10. It's with the heart that we believe. And because a converts heart is upon Jesus, then confession will be made. Its a knee jerk reaction. Just like if a knat flies into your eye. You will blink. No questions asked. That eye is going to close.

                        The bible says that where our heart is, there will also our treasure be found. But confession can be made in numerous ways. Our actions, our appearance, our conversation. So, yes, we will confess Jesus if we are one of his own.

                        Now I will send out a shock wave by my next statement. We cannot be saved by faith alone. And yes, our works will not save us either. But there is work that is required on our part, in order to be saved.

                        We can discuss this as much as you wish.
                        Verse 10 is confirmation that confession is a righteous work produced by one's salvation. When is a person made righteous? When they believe. When do works save? NEVER (not by works). The moment anyone says that "A" work must be done to be saved is failing to understand that NOT BY WORKS, meaning. There is value to works... works are required to ABIDE, and to continue to abide in Christ. Faith and grace save. Works will reveal that faith is real.

                        All works VERIFY one's righteousness. When is a person righteous? After they have been saved. ALL works follow righteousness. When is a person made righteous :-) WHEN they are saved.

                        Confession (a work) doesn't save, confession (a work) SHOWS others, the speaker has been saved.
                        --
                        Slug1--out

                        ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

                        ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

                        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TMarcum View Post

                          You have made a great summary of faith and salvation. You have the full knowledge and understanding of exactly what faith is, what true repentance is, and what salvation is. I would say you made the conclusion that our faith alone will not save us. But faith combined with true repentance is the road that leads to salvation.
                          Thanks much! I think it's helped me to try to put things in my own words. Someone said a long time ago that if we develop our own testimony, we can best share with others something we know deeply within ourselves. We won't just share theory, but our own personal reality. Thanks again. We all need some encouragement once in a while. And you've offered that.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

                            When is a person made righteous? When they believe.
                            A person is not made righteous when they believe. Belief is a requirement in order to be made righteous.
                            But so is hearing the preaching of the gospel. The bible says the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. But a person is not made righteous when they hear the preaching of gospel.

                            So no my friend. A person is made righteous when they accept Jesus as savior by repentance.


                            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post

                            When do works save? NEVER (not by works).

                            The moment anyone says that "A" work must be done to be saved is failing to understand that NOT BY WORKS, meaning.
                            The bible does not say that works do not save us. And this is where many people are misguided and misunderstand. The bible says that we are not saved of ourselves nor of works.

                            Ephesians 2
                            8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
                            9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                            Salvation is not as a result of man. And this is key point of understanding this passage. Salvation is not inherited. Salvation is not earned. Salvation is not purchased of works. Salvation is not as a result from anything man has done.

                            Salvation is a gift from God by his Devine grace, because he loves us.

                            So how does works save? First of all, what is works? Work is action. Work is motion.
                            So what works are required in order to be saved?.
                            1) To hear the gospel - Hearing is a work and without hearing the gospel, you can never be saved.
                            2) To believe - To believe is a work, which is a product of the mind. Which is not the same as faith (a gift of the spirit). Unless you believe Jesus is of God, you can never be saved.
                            3) Acceptance by Repentance through faith - Repentance is a work of the heart and without repentance, you can never be saved.
                            4) You must Love - To Love is a work and without Loving Jesus and Loving the brethren, you can never be saved.
                            5) You must have Hope in Jesus - Hope is a work manifested by faith. To be saved, you must have hope, which is an optimistic attitude of mind based on expectation and desire that Jesus is a redeemer. Without hope, you can never be saved.

                            Most look at works as actions of man. Such as helping an old person cross the street. Helping someone cross the street is a manifestation of works. Works are actions of the heart.

                            Because you hear in your heart, then you respond by stepping forward by faith.
                            Because you believe in your heart, then a confession of faith is made.
                            Because you repent in your heart, then a change in your life is made.
                            Because you have love in your heart, then acts of kindness are performed.
                            Because you have hope in your heart, then you by faith wait for the manifestation of God.

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                            • #15
                              Repentance actually precedes believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

                              Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectorsand the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

                              Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

                              Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
                              Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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