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  • Originally posted by VCOrv View Post

    2 Timothy 2:19 (HCSB)
    19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, having this inscription: The Lord knows those who are His, and Everyone who names the name of the Lord must turn away from unrighteousness.


    Romans 8:29-30 (HCSB)
    29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
    30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

    1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
    14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
    Cat gotcha tongue ?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
      Yes it is. Both Faith and Faithfulness are fruit of the Spirit.
      That is not Biblical. Faith is the response God demands of us. He helps us with faithfulness, but He demands the initial response of faith before salvation is received (Eph 2:8).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by VCOrv View Post


        Just a reminder, my 1967 old school teachings, were Colors and Capitalizations were only for Emphasis. I do not yell, even when I am frustrated.

        I have shown you this before a couple times, and you still do not get it.


        I Believe our SALVATION was literally before TIME BEGAN, and your theory that it was effectual before Creation. I do not Care that you want to believe something else. I BELIEVE HE Did It All, before time began. Our Decision or Response was because HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN US, Who is also ETERNAL (without time in HIM). There is NOTHING we can take credit for, as it was ALL CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT working in our lives before Time was Created.

        2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
        9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


        Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
        13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling youboth to desire and to work out His good purpose.


        And GOD can say those two things or achievements happened before HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE.


        Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
        6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


        Yes this would be in our FUTURE, but the one DOING it IS the Holy Trinity, So HE SAID it was a DONE DEAL before He Created the World. AND I BELIEVE HIM.

        Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
        8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
        9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.


        So how come you keep trying to GRAB some of the GLORY for your SALVATION and Sanctification, when it ALL BELONGS TO HIM ? ? ?

        I am tired of trying to get you to understand me, so BYE, BYE.
        I fully understand your post.

        WHEN did salvation or regeneration, that was effectual before creation, COME into effect in YOUR LIFETIME... before you believed, SO you could choose to believe, or did the regeneration happen as you chose to believe?

        And the follow on question, if your answer is before your made your choice, HOW LONG after Christ regenerated you, did you make the choice to believe in Him?
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        FINALLY, it's working.

        Humor me. I can post a bunch of scriptures about the "righteous works" God has for me. Better known as predestination. With the verses, as you, I can say GOD accomplished and provided for ALL the works through me BEFORE creation. Same line as you are speaking concerning your salvation.

        However, DURING my lifetime, I will experience first my salvation and following my regeneration into God's Kingdom, during the REST of my lifetime, experience work, after work after work.

        This is from the position I ask my question to you. YES, your salvation, my salvation happened before creation, before time. YES, all the works God planned for you, were accomplished/provided for before creation, before time.

        BUT... you and me, IN TIME experience first regeneration and from that point on, all the righteous works God planned and HAS done through us, has been, is and will be experienced during our lifetime.

        Tomorrow, you may be prompted by the Holy Spirit during a prayer group meeting to pray for healing over a brethren who is sick or injured and God will heal that person. According to all the scriptures you have posted and all the one's that I CAN post (if needed), I can say, you praying and God healing that person was completed/empowerment provided for, before creation.

        However, if I asked you WHEN in your lifetime did you experience God using you in the healing of another person and you kept saying ALL that you've been saying concerning your regeneration... in my opinion, you are only trying to AVOID answering the question.
        --
        Slug1--out

        ~John 8:14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going.~

        ~John 6:62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?~ (Jesus is Eternal - existed before becoming a man)

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jake2020 View Post
          Again brightbulb, it's not your call, it's a God thing, (by grace) spiritually dead folks are made alive (through faith) in Christ. (Eph 2
          Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
          How spiritually dead person have faith which is a fruit of the Spirit ?
          I told you, God gives to each one a measure of faith. (Rom12:3)

          He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you..." Luke 8:10

          Now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith; Romans 16:25

          To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, Colossians 1:27

          My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2:2-3

          The Lord is exalted, for He dwells on high; He will fill Zion with his justice and righteousness.
          6 He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; Isaiah 33

          Comment


          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

            Cat gotcha tongue ?


            No, over the years I have grown to KNOW if scripture has a satisfactory answer, just POST SCRIPTURE. On the previous post, Not exactly. I BELIEVE HE SAVED ME BEFORE TIME BEGAN. HE orchestrated my receiving Him, My first genuine BIELIEF in HIM in my Heart though HE planted the SEED before Time Began, Emersion into the Spiritual Body of Christ, HIS LOVE for me was Poured into my Heart, HIS Giving me the Spiritual Gift of TOTAL TRUST IN CHRIST, all at the SAME MOMENT in TIME that the Holy Spirit CAME INTO MY HEART, but HE still saved me before He wrote my Name down in the BOOK OF LIFE, before the foundation of the earth. NOTHING I did helped it along.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post

              That is not Biblical. Faith is the response God demands of us. He helps us with faithfulness, but He demands the initial response of faith before salvation is received (Eph 2:8).
              If you do not think FAITH is a FRUIT of the Spirit, you would be WRONG.

              Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
              22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
              23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by VCOrv View Post

                If you do not think FAITH is a FRUIT of the Spirit, you would be WRONG.

                Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
                22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
                23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
                That is the exact passage I quoted in post#429. But if you look at all the translations out there, of the 45 translations listed on Biblehub.com, only 16 translate it as "faith", 23 translate it as "faithfulness", and 6 translate it as "fidelity", longanimity", forbearance", or do not include the word.

                Personally, I think that faithfulness is much more in line with the rest of Scripture. Because as I have said, faith must include actions that we take, and it must precede salvation as it is the conduit through which grace is applied to our life. So while it may be true that greater faith is a gift/fruit of the Spirit, initial faith (the faith through which we are saved) comes from us.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post

                  That is not Biblical. Faith is the response God demands of us. He helps us with faithfulness, but He demands the initial response of faith before salvation is received (Eph 2:8).
                  Yes its biblical, Gal 5:22 is biblical !

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jake2020 View Post
                    I told you, God gives to each one a measure of faith. (Rom12:3)

                    He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you..." Luke 8:10

                    Now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith; Romans 16:25

                    To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, Colossians 1:27

                    My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2:2-3

                    The Lord is exalted, for He dwells on high; He will fill Zion with his justice and righteousness.
                    6 He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; Isaiah 33
                    Faith comes with the New Birth. If one has been born again, they are spiritually alive not dead. How does a spiritually dead person have Faith which is a fruit of the Spirit ?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post

                      That is the exact passage I quoted in post#429. But if you look at all the translations out there, of the 45 translations listed on Biblehub.com, only 16 translate it as "faith", 23 translate it as "faithfulness", and 6 translate it as "fidelity", longanimity", forbearance", or do not include the word.

                      Personally, I think that faithfulness is much more in line with the rest of Scripture. Because as I have said, faith must include actions that we take, and it must precede salvation as it is the conduit through which grace is applied to our life. So while it may be true that greater faith is a gift/fruit of the Spirit, initial faith (the faith through which we are saved) comes from us.

                      I recommend you stick with the most Trustworthy Translations. I frequently have as Many as 14 Translations open on Bible Software program.

                      They are, KJV, ASV, NKJV, NASB, HCSB, NRSV, ESV, NIV, NCV, YLT, GW, CSB, TLB, ISV, AMP, BBE, NET. The Fourteen are listed in the Black letters, and the ones in the Blue letters I also consider Trustworthy, but I had to thin it out a bit. Every single one of them either translate it FAITH or FAITHFULNESS. Now you YOU want to trust those ODDBALL Translations, You are on your own, and NONE of us wants to argue with you.

                      It appears to me in my opinion, YOU are addicted to ARGUING, instead of Bible Study.


                      Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
                      22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
                      faithfulness <G4102>,
                      23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


                      QUOTE:
                      Greek NASB Number: 4102
                      Greek Word: πίστις
                      Transliterated Word: pistis
                      Root: from 3982;
                      Definition: faith, faithfulness:--

                      List of English Words and Number of Times Used
                      faith (238),
                      faithfulness (3),
                      pledge (1),
                      proof (1).
                      New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
                      :END QUOTE.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                        Faith comes with the New Birth. If one has been born again, they are spiritually alive not dead. How does a spiritually dead person have Faith which is a fruit of the Spirit ?
                        Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith; Col 2:6-7

                        For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by VCOrv View Post


                          I recommend you stick with the most Trustworthy Translations. I frequently have as Many as 14 Translations open on Bible Software program.

                          They are, KJV, ASV, NKJV, NASB, HCSB, NRSV, ESV, NIV, NCV, YLT, GW, CSB, TLB, ISV, AMP, BBE, NET. The Fourteen are listed in the Black letters, and the ones in the Blue letters I also consider Trustworthy, but I had to thin it out a bit. Every single one of them either translate it FAITH or FAITHFULNESS. Now you YOU want to trust those ODDBALL Translations, You are on your own, and NONE of us wants to argue with you.

                          It appears to me in my opinion, YOU are addicted to ARGUING, instead of Bible Study.


                          Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
                          22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
                          faithfulness <G4102>,
                          23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


                          QUOTE:
                          Greek NASB Number: 4102
                          Greek Word: πίστις
                          Transliterated Word: pistis
                          Root: from 3982;
                          Definition: faith, faithfulness:--

                          List of English Words and Number of Times Used
                          faith (238),
                          faithfulness (3),
                          pledge (1),
                          proof (1).
                          New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
                          :END QUOTE.
                          I actually prefer the NKJV for most of my Bible reading. But I do read from many of the other "word-for-word" translations. I avoid the ones from the "word-for-thought" end of the spectrum.

                          But I do see a huge difference between FAITH and FAITHFULNESS. They come from the same root, but have dramatically different meanings. And while I see faithfulness as being a fruit of the Spirit, I do not see where any other Scripture supports faith as being a fruit of the Spirit.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post

                            I actually prefer the NKJV for most of my Bible reading. But I do read from many of the other "word-for-word" translations. I avoid the ones from the "word-for-thought" end of the spectrum.

                            But I do see a huge difference between FAITH and FAITHFULNESS. They come from the same root, but have dramatically different meanings. And while I see faithfulness as being a fruit of the Spirit, I do not see where any other Scripture supports faith as being a fruit of the Spirit.


                            My Favorite is HCSB because they use Yahweh instead of translating it to LORD,

                            Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
                            6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
                            you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Doug Brents View Post
                              I did in my comment. You replied to Brightflame that you agreed with his comment that "...when he is saved out of Spiritual death and given Spiritual life, then they can do Spiritual acts like hear, see, believe, repent."

                              If I misunderstood what you are agreeing to, please forgive me.
                              Nothing to apologise for, Bro. All forgotten.

                              Comment


                              • So How many pages has the record on this site ? ? ?

                                On the other Christian Site that I post on, we are on Page 7479, and the Posts are up to #149,572.

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