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  • The Baptism In The Holy Spirit

    "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out My Spirit." Joel 2:28,29.

    After Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, He went about healing the sick and casting out demons by the power (dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite) of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told His disciples, "And behold I send the promise of My Father upon you, but tarry in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (dunamis) from on high." Lu 24:49. This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:14-21. The Apostle Paul would later say, "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in man's wisdom, but in the power of God." 1 Cor 2:4,5.

    Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; in My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mk 16:17,18.

    Paul instructed the church, "Now concerning Spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...For to one is given by the Spirit the Word of wisdom; to another the Word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues..." 1 Cor 12:1-11.

    "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church...wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...wherefore my brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Cor 14:1-40.

    Some limit the speaking in tongues to merely preaching in other languages. First of all, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are supernatural - not talents or abilities. It would be blasphemous to say, that, sinners who speak more than one language are operating in the Holy Spirit. If one comes to the Word of God with a teachable heart, he will readily see in these passages that speaking and praying in tongues is to be part of the worship service.

    Jude 20,21 tells us, "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

    "For precept must be upon precept; line upon line; here a little and there a little: for with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to His people. To whom He said, "This is the rest and the refreshing: yet they would not hear." Isa 28:10-12. Will you hear?

  • #2
    Originally posted by herald View Post
    "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out My Spirit." Joel 2:28,29.

    After Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, He went about healing the sick and casting out demons by the power (dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite) of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told His disciples, "And behold I send the promise of My Father upon you, but tarry in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (dunamis) from on high." Lu 24:49. This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:14-21. The Apostle Paul would later say, "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in man's wisdom, but in the power of God." 1 Cor 2:4,5.

    Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; in My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mk 16:17,18.

    Paul instructed the church, "Now concerning Spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...For to one is given by the Spirit the Word of wisdom; to another the Word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues..." 1 Cor 12:1-11.

    "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church...wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...wherefore my brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Cor 14:1-40.

    Some limit the speaking in tongues to merely preaching in other languages. First of all, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are supernatural - not talents or abilities. It would be blasphemous to say, that, sinners who speak more than one language are operating in the Holy Spirit. If one comes to the Word of God with a teachable heart, he will readily see in these passages that speaking and praying in tongues is to be part of the worship service.

    Jude 20,21 tells us, "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

    "For precept must be upon precept; line upon line; here a little and there a little: for with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to His people. To whom He said, "This is the rest and the refreshing: yet they would not hear." Isa 28:10-12. Will you hear?
    The context of the book is unity. Paul is reprimanding them because they have division within the church. Speaking in tongues was part of the service in the first century church, however, Paul says that the gifts were to end.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by herald View Post

      "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church...wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...wherefore my brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Cor 14:1-40.
      ·He speaks not to men because he is speaking a foreign language, and if there is no one to interpret, no one can understand him, and only God can understand him.


      ·In the Bible, the word “mysteries” does not refer to anything mysterious, as we understand the word in our age. In the study of languages, English in particular, we know that the word "mystery" does not have the connotation it has in our day till about the 1500s.



      Here, the word mysteries just refers to some revelation that God had not revealed up to that point in time. (Dan 2:28, Dan 2:47, Dan 2:29, 1 Cor 4:1, Eph 1:9, 1 Cor 2:12-14, Col 4:3-4).



      Mystery simply refers to a truth or prophecy of God not yet revealed to mankind up to that point in time.



      Dan 2:27 Daniel answered the king and said, "No wise men, enchanters, magicians, or astrologers can show to the king the mystery that the king has asked,
      Dan 2:28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these:



      Dan 2:47 The king answered and said to Daniel, "Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal this mystery."



      Here, mysteries of God refer to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God's revealed plan of salvation to mankind, not revealed till that time of writing.


      1Co 4:1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.


      Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
      Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
      Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ


      Col 4:3 At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison--
      Col 4:4 that I may make it clear, which is how I ought to speak.



      This meaning is totally consistent with the verses that follow, as God speaks some knowledge, teaching or revelation in a foreign language, through the one with the gift of tongues, that has up to that point, before the Bible was completed, not yet been revealed.
      Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
        The context of the book is unity. Paul is reprimanding them because they have division within the church. Speaking in tongues was part of the service in the first century church, however, Paul says that the gifts were to end.
        Where does Paul say the gifts will end?
        ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by herald View Post
          "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out My Spirit." Joel 2:28,29.

          After Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, He went about healing the sick and casting out demons by the power (dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite) of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told His disciples, "And behold I send the promise of My Father upon you, but tarry in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (dunamis) from on high." Lu 24:49. This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:14-21. The Apostle Paul would later say, "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in man's wisdom, but in the power of God." 1 Cor 2:4,5.

          Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; in My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mk 16:17,18.

          Paul instructed the church, "Now concerning Spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...For to one is given by the Spirit the Word of wisdom; to another the Word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues..." 1 Cor 12:1-11.

          "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church...wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...wherefore my brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Cor 14:1-40.

          Some limit the speaking in tongues to merely preaching in other languages. First of all, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are supernatural - not talents or abilities. It would be blasphemous to say, that, sinners who speak more than one language are operating in the Holy Spirit. If one comes to the Word of God with a teachable heart, he will readily see in these passages that speaking and praying in tongues is to be part of the worship service.

          Jude 20,21 tells us, "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

          "For precept must be upon precept; line upon line; here a little and there a little: for with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to His people. To whom He said, "This is the rest and the refreshing: yet they would not hear." Isa 28:10-12. Will you hear?
          I was just listening to John Piper speaking of Martyn Lloyd Jones' belief in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a separate event from regeneration and/or receiving the Spirit. Lloyd-Jones also claims it works hand in hand with revival of the Church. I held this view as a babe in the Lord then drifted into a more 'sophisticated' approach but have of late been re-embracing it.

          Here is an example of it being a separate event to already established believers.

          And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
          (Act 4:31)
          ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
            The context of the book is unity. Paul is reprimanding them because they have division within the church. Speaking in tongues was part of the service in the first century church, however, Paul says that the gifts were to end.
            When did he say they would end? Date, please?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crossnote View Post
              Where does Paul say the gifts will end?
              1 Corinthians 13:8

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                1 Corinthians 13:8
                Thanks Butch! I've been combing a couple of threads where i ran across this because couldnt locate the exact verse
                Originally posted by Job 34:19
                God is not partial to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of His hands.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                  1 Corinthians 13:8
                  Here we go again! Haha, I love you brother

                  Z.
                  "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
                    He speaks not to men because he is speaking a foreign language, and if there is no one to interpret, no one can understand him, and only God can understand him.
                    This is simply not true. He is not speaking TO MEN (of any language), the verse makes that very clear... Rather, he is speaking to God.

                    1 Cor 14: 2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him..." There's no getting around that.

                    Paul also says later, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful..." If Paul was praying in an earthly language, then why would he say this? Again, later he says, "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding, and I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also" (1 Cor 14:14-15). Why would Paul admonish us to do BOTH, if only ONE was for others around us? If only ONE was beneficial? It's because the prayer of tongues is for the individual believer, whereas the GIFT of tongues (coupled with it's interpretation) is for the edifying of the body, and is equivalent to prophesy for edification, exhortation and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).

                    In the Bible, the word “mysteries” does not refer to anything mysterious, as we understand the word in our age. In the study of languages, English in particular, we know that the word "mystery" does not have the connotation it has in our day till about the 1500s.

                    Again, this is not entirely accurate. The word "mystery" is the Greek word "musterion" and means, "that which is known only to the initiated". This is the word Jesus used when comparing the disciples and the multitudes:

                    Matt 13:10-12 "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."


                    that's my ,

                    Z.
                    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by crossnote View Post
                      I was just listening to John Piper speaking of Martyn Lloyd Jones' belief in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a separate event from regeneration and/or receiving the Spirit. Lloyd-Jones also claims it works hand in hand with revival of the Church. I held this view as a babe in the Lord then drifted into a more 'sophisticated' approach but have of late been re-embracing it.

                      Here is an example of it being a separate event to already established believers.

                      And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
                      (Act 4:31)
                      Not to mention:

                      Eph 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

                      There are incidences in Acts where people were saved (baptism of John), and yet not filled with the Holy Ghost. Here's one:

                      Acts 19:2-6 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

                      Also, Gal 3:13-14 makes a distinction between the two events:

                      "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: [in order] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; [in order] that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

                      Here we see justification was preparatory for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Thus, they are not the same experience. They are separate and distinct.

                      Z.
                      "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                        The context of the book is unity. Paul is reprimanding them because they have division within the church. Speaking in tongues was part of the service in the first century church, however, Paul says that the gifts were to end.
                        Butch5, the context of the epistle had turned to things that the Corinthians had specific questions about. Paul offers very specific teaching regarding those things. I Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: Regarding Spiritual gifts (which is not what the thread title is about), Paul again teaches and offers the "more excellent way". Paul would not have us ignorant, but rather he wants us to learn: I Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. When we believe that the spiritual gifts have ceased for the Church here in this time, we become willingly ignorant of his teaching.

                        We need to be careful of what we rest our belief in. When we say "this isn't for us" then it really isn't.

                        God Bless!
                        Watchinginawe

                        I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll offer one last thing for the thread (I don't plan on participating). The last recorded water baptism in the book of Acts happens before the last recorded time where folks speak in tongues upon the Holy Ghost falling. Additionally, many more recorded manifestations of Spiritual gifts are given even up to the final chapter: Acts 28:8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

                          9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed:

                          So we never see a "winding down" of the importance of the Holy Spirit in ministry and for believers in the book of Acts.

                          God Bless!
                          Watchinginawe

                          I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by herald View Post
                            "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out My Spirit." Joel 2:28,29.
                            This promise is to the Jews and not a promise to the Gentiles. Evidenced in Acts 2
                            After Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, He went about healing the sick and casting out demons by the power (dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite) of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told His disciples, "And behold I send the promise of My Father upon you, but tarry in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (dunamis) from on high." Lu 24:49. This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:14-21. The Apostle Paul would later say, "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in man's wisdom, but in the power of God." 1 Cor 2:4,5.
                            Was Jesus ever without the Holy Spirit??
                            The dunamis is also a term used to describe the gospel. Rom 1:16
                            Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; in My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mk 16:17,18.
                            This text is unrelieable. There is considerable evidence that it is not in the original manuscripts and was added by an over zealous scribe.

                            Paul instructed the church, "Now concerning Spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...For to one is given by the Spirit the Word of wisdom; to another the Word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues..." 1 Cor 12:1-11.

                            "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries...he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church...wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also...wherefore my brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Cor 14:1-40.
                            Is this evidenced in the charasmatic church today? The orderly part.
                            Some limit the speaking in tongues to merely preaching in other languages. First of all, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are supernatural - not talents or abilities. It would be blasphemous to say, that, sinners who speak more than one language are operating in the Holy Spirit. If one comes to the Word of God with a teachable heart, he will readily see in these passages that speaking and praying in tongues is to be part of the worship service.
                            Sinners who study and learn multiple languages are not claiming the "gift" of tongues. Acts 2 Peter spoke and those present heard in their native tongues not special unknown languages. Supernatural gifts can be talents or abilitues given under special circumstances to forward the gospel.
                            Jude 20,21 tells us, "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."
                            Study of the word of God under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is profitable for every believer.
                            "For precept must be upon precept; line upon line; here a little and there a little: for with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to His people. To whom He said, "This is the rest and the refreshing: yet they would not hear." Isa 28:10-12. Will you hear?
                            Will you be like Israel and carried off into captivity? Israel was apostate and not obeying the word of God when this prophecy was given. Sennacherib's tongue is the tongue through which the stammering lips would speak.

                            Isaiah asks who shall God make to understand doctrine? Those who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts. Understanding is to be received from the Lord by study of His word.

                            For the cause of Christ
                            Roger

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                              1 Corinthians 13:8
                              When does this happen. No doubt it will happen, but when?

                              I guess the Lord enables the Christian's who understand that this will happen in the due time... so while many, many Christian's are used and manifest tongues an any of the other gifts of the Holy Spirit, many will continue to say... nope, not of God.

                              It's very dangerous territory to walk cause all you have to do is speak out against the Holy Spirit and this is an unforgivable sin (Mt 12:32). Even the Pharisees only "heard" of Jesus healing and they committed blasphemy when they said He healed by satan:

                              Mt 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and[e] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
                              24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,[f] the ruler of the demons.”

                              Dangerous ground dude, many Christian's are used by the Holy spirit as the Lord manifests, and they speak in tongues, heal, speak prophesy, or any of the 9 gifts and then other Christian's say.... nope, not of God.

                              Jesus Himself gave us ALL the Great Commission, not just the Apostles.... read it. It doesn't say do this but without empowerment to heal, speak tongues, tread on serpents... the Great Commission is clear and to those who have faith that the Lord can use to empower their belief in Jesus... will do all that.
                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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