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  • Discussion Will the Church be Judged?

    Will the Church of Jesus face a future judgment by God?

    I say yes, Scripture says in 1Pe 4:17 - For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

    Why does anyone face judgment? Two reasons.
    First, judgment removes impurities and transgression out of the character of our soul. This is done when a person does voluntarily seek change on their own. God takes it upon Himself to appoint a season in which He takes things out of our character in order to prepare and promote us for the next season of our life. Jas 1:2-4- My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

    This is the sort of trial encountered by Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, Job, the Apostles that lead to their promotions and preparations for the next function and season in their life. The saints of today are not exempt from the purifications made by ordained trials God requires to promote us. This can be called the judgment of purification.

    Secondly, judgment is God's attempt to get His people out of the state of sin. God either tries to bring His people to repentance and get them to return to His ways, or He allows judgment to take them into captivity. He then either puts them on the shelf as a vessel of dishonor or destroys them like a heathen. This believer does not make an honest attempt to judge them self. They make little to know effort to change their understanding, lifestyle, and state. This can be called the judgment against iniquity or lawlessness.

    1Co 11:31 -For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

    Heb 12:6 - For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."

    Re 2:16 - Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fightagainstthem with the sword of My mouth.

    I say these things because the Lord has been showing me, preparing me, and about to promote me to some things that could either cause fear or joy in most saints. There is a reason why judgment always comes upon the people of God first. Simply, it is God's pattern and He changes not. He has always followed this pattern of judging His people first, then the nations secondly. However within the judging of His people, there are various stages and types of judgment.

    First, when God judges His people, He always gives a warning before judging His people as stated by Eze 3:17 - Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

    Secondly, when judgment comes upon His people, a remnant is always set aside becomes they have proven themselves faithful and repentive. They are judged collectively but their judgment works for their good and the good of those to follow. This remnant is a type of first fruit for the next harvest of God's people. They are given instructions by God and prophecy concerning what to do after the period of captivity is lifted. Hence they are prepared for the judgment and trials to come.
    Isa 1:9 - Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

    Isa 37:31 - And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
    This is illustrated from Noah and Daniel to the believing disciples of Jesus.

    Jer 29:1 - Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;

    Thirdly, when judgment comes upon God's people, he takes the unfaithful into captivity with a sentence of death. They are treated as a gentile sense they acted like a gentile. They face the same consequences of the heathen. God always judged Israel by a gentile nation, then turned around and judged the nation that captured Israel.
    Ho 8:8 - Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.

    Lastly, God judges the gentile nations for their sins and rebellion against Him.

    Now lets get to the point that the Spirit taught me. The time is near that judgment must begin at the house of the Lord. House denotes and refers to the people within a household not any physical building. The bride of Christ must be made ready if she is to be without spot, wrinkle, and blemish. The first fruit saints are being made ready to deliver the last message meant especially for the tribulation preparation.

    Who does God always send before His returns? Elijah's who prepare His way. The message has been and still is repent for the King is coming. It will be no different in the future. God wants the lamps full of oil and His people woke for His appearing. The clock says that the Day of Atonement is near.

    The period of atonement is about to start before the coming tribulation. This will be the period that the judgment of purification perfects those saints that fall upon the rock.

    After the trumpets start blowing the period of atonement is up. It will be too late to get the special revelation, power, awareness, and calling for the end time ministry needed during the tribulation. End time ministry will not be business as usual. The time of playing church will be over. Those who are prepared will be ready. Those who are not ready will go into captivity by the judgment of iniquity.

    The unprepared will have the rock fall on them because since they did not judge themselves, repent, or heed the message of preparation. This period of judgment regarding iniquity will be doing the first three and a half years of the tribulation.
    Re 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Re 13:7 -And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    During the period of atonement, the Body of Christ will undergo a cooperate judgment of purification. Some will submit to the judgment and some will not submit to the judgment. Then those who would not submit to the judgment of purification will under the judgment of iniquity along with the gentile nations in the tribulations.

    What do you think if you have read this post?
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    Yes
    76.92%
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    Last edited by manichunter; Jul 21st 2008, 12:14 AM.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  • #2
    I don't think the church itself will be judged.. but the people in that church.. A church is a building.. it's the people who make that building..


    Jesus please hear my prayers always for..

    Lorie & Her Son's Matty & Josh
    Mieke & Charles,Vhayes & her Husband
    SteelerBabe,Ken, Gracie, Mike
    Colo & Famiy & MercyChild
    Daughter & Family
    Vickie & Ashley
    For ALL suffering with ALS
    Moonglow and Nate
    My Brother Greg, and Sister Victoria, Dad & Cecilia
    Maureen and her Sons Kevin & Keith
    Kevin & Gwen, Ron & Angel
    Gary &Cleaveland
    EVERYONE here at the BibleForums
    Please Jesus hear my prayers...


    ***GOD BLESS***

    Redneck Charger..

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with Redneck Charger on this. I will add I think "teachers" will be held more accountable than others:
      James 3
      1 - Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
      I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
      - Mahatma Gandhi



      Comment


      • #4
        Agreeing with my friends, individuals will be judged and those in authority over the sheep a closer judgement.

        Denominations/ churches are made up of flawed, sinful, humans - like all of us, who agree with more or less of what is taught there.

        It is wonderful that God knows us better than we know ourselves - and is 100% righteous.

        Love



        BIG SofTy
        1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

        Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

        KJV

        May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Redneck Charger View Post
          I don't think the church itself will be judged.. but the people in that church.. A church is a building.. it's the people who make that building..
          A "church" may have come to mean a building in modern Americanized christianity - but that is not the Scriptural meaning.

          Ekklesia means the called out ones
          The true church is the body of Messiah.

          "church" is not where one goes, or what one does at a particular set time - though unfortunately , to way way to many, it is what church is to them.
          A wrong perception that has become reality - churchianity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Judgement comes to God's house first, His church.

            Daniel 9
            12"Thus He has confirmed His words which He had spoken against us and against our rulers who ruled us, to bring on us great calamity; for under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what was done to Jerusalem.

            13"As it is written in the law of Moses, all this calamity has come on us; yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquity and giving attention to Your truth.
            14"Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it on us; for the LORD our God is righteous with respect to all His deeds which He has done, but we have not obeyed His voice.
            15"And now, O Lord our God, who have brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand and have made a name for Yourself, as it is this day--we have sinned, we have been wicked.
            16"O Lord, in accordance with all Your righteous acts, let now Your anger and Your wrath turn away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; for because of our sins and the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people have become a reproach to all those around us. 17"So now, our God, listen to the prayer of Your servant and to his supplications, and for Your sake, O Lord, let Your face shine on Your desolate sanctuary.
            God chastens and smites those whom He loves in order to turn them back to Him. Over and over and over again throughout scripture judgement comes to God's people. When they turn from God they are punished. When they are with God, protected. God works through those who are His. Judgement only came to the enemies of God when the people of God were walking in His ways.

            In Daniel 9, Daniel stands up for the people in intercession for the wrong they have done, having gone against God. Judgement comes to God's house first. Even looking at Revelation and who is drawn up to Christ in the clouds - judgement was then in who had withstood the ways of the world and remained faithful to Him.
            Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
            Not second or third, but first.
            Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
            when He is the source of all hope,
            when His love is received and freely given,
            holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
            will all other things be added unto to you.

            Comment


            • #7
              There are Biblical types of the judgment of the church/es at the end of this age: Whenever God's people would not heed his call to repent of their waywardness, the innocent suffered with the guilty.

              Of all the Jews in Babylon, only Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego (the faithful remnant) refused to bow down and worship "the image of the beast" (Danile chapter 3). What happened to them? They were thrown by the antichrist (Nebuchadnezzar) into the burning, fiery furnace ("the great tribulation of the saints).

              The Lord Jesus Christ remained present with this faithful remnant IN THE MIDST OF THEM while they were in this purifying fire, and afterward they were told,

              "... Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come forth and come here. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth from the middle of the fire." (Dan.3: 26).

              "And they heard a great voice from Heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them." (Rev.11: 12).

              The sheep must be separated from the goats, otherwise the goats will be removed from the world and taken up with the sheep.

              Solomon's temple was destroyed by fire because of the waywardness of God's people and their refusal to repent. The New Testament temple may be "destroyed", for a brief period of the world's history, by the fire of great tribulation of the saints - thanks to Todd Bentley, the Emerging Church, "spiritual experiences" and an abundance of counterfeit miracles, dreams, prophecies, visions, et al.

              "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." (Rev.2: 22).

              ananias.
              "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

              And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

              Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
              (Mat.23: 8-10)

              AND

              "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

              By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
              (Joh.13: 34-35)

              Comment


              • #8
                Will the Church of Jesus face a future judgment by God?

                MY COMMENTS: By "church" I asssume you mean the "church--body of Christ", that is, all believers who God calls to be in this special body.

                While we who are the called body of Christ, whose future is in the heavenlies, are assured of our salvation, nevertheless, we will give account of our deeds, as believers, at the judgment seat (bema--Greek) of Christ in the heavenlies.

                Romans 13:10-12, "For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, 'As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.' So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." AV.

                I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE GAIN OR LOSS OF REWARDS, FOR "JUDGING" IS NEUTRAL WHERE BOTH GOOD AND BAD DEEDS WILL BE SHOWN.

                Also, see 2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether good or bad." AV.

                This seat of judging is not to be confused with Christ on His great white throne, described in Rev. 20:11ff.

                Comment


                • #9
                  God has always prepared His chosen vessels for the offices He ordained for them. He has a pattern of judging people by the purifying of their character, motives, and affections. These things have to be refined by fire. Do the saints of today think that they are better than Moses 40 years in the deserts of His father in law, David thirteen years in the wilderness, and Joseph's years of slavery which prepared all these saints for their calling and duties.

                  Now the times of the end is upon us, which Jesus says will be a time like no other. How can we think that no preparation will be needed. It will not be business and going to church as usual. The preparation is upon us now.................

                  God will move against every individual believer in judgment for either of the two types of judgment depending on the individual believer's response to God. God has to prepare His bride for His return. His bride is not ready as I type. This requires a refining by fire which burns away the adulterous heart, earthly treasures, and idols of worship from believers. Then God can restore His bride with His end time message and empowerment. However, there will be some who resist God and remain sleep. These shall face the same judgment of lawlessness that the unbelieving sinful nations face.

                  The call for repentance is upon. The Elijah's are upon us. The king of kings is coming to receive His bride for the wedding feast.
                  Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

                  www.woc-church.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bick View Post
                    Will the Church of Jesus face a future judgment by God?

                    MY COMMENTS: By "church" I asssume you mean the "church--body of Christ", that is, all believers who God calls to be in this special body.

                    While we who are the called body of Christ, whose future is in the heavenlies, are assured of our salvation, nevertheless, we will give account of our deeds, as believers, at the judgment seat (bema--Greek) of Christ in the heavenlies.

                    Romans 13:10-12, "For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, 'As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.' So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." AV.

                    I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE GAIN OR LOSS OF REWARDS, FOR "JUDGING" IS NEUTRAL WHERE BOTH GOOD AND BAD DEEDS WILL BE SHOWN.

                    Also, see 2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether good or bad." AV.

                    This seat of judging is not to be confused with Christ on His great white throne, described in Rev. 20:11ff.
                    Not that judgment, but the ones that we face on this side of creation. Whatever a man sows he reaps kind. We are tried by fire that we might be made a mature servant kind.
                    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

                    www.woc-church.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In my previous post, I said that when Solomon’s temple was destroyed by fire because God’s people refused to repent of their waywardness, the “innocent” suffered with the guilty.

                      But in truth, no-one is totally innocent. If we were, we would not need to be refined by the fire of great tribulation before the return of our Lord. If the Lord’s bride must be purified before He comes for her, then it means there’s something, or probably more than one thing, that we need to be purified from (in my case, I know there are).

                      And with regard to all this, I believe that it was for OUR sakes, and the sake of all Christians who would ever had to face terrible tribulation for the sake of their testimony to Christ and/or faithfulness to the truth (such as in the days of the Reformation), that He allowed what happened to Peter:

                      Peter said to the Lord, “Though I should die with You, yet I WILL not deny You. All the disciples also said the same.” (Mat.26: 35).

                      Peter trusted in himself – yet Jesus exhorts us to “Watch therefore, praying in every season that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things which shall occur, and to stand before the Son of Man.” (Luk.26: 41).

                      “Watch and pray that you enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Mat.26: 41).

                      We need to ask God to keep us from falling. We need to ask God for strength of character, faith, courage, HIS comfort, and to keep our eyes fixed on the hope of the glory that awaits us when the Lord Jesus Christ is revealed, when he comes in the clouds of heaven.

                      We need to NOT think about, and agonize, and be anxious about our circumstances and the things going on around us, but rather to “look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.”

                      “And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.” (Luk.21: 28).

                      “But they have no root in themselves, but are temporary. Afterward when affliction or persecution arises for the Word's sake, they are immediately offended.” (Mar.4: 17).

                      “Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another. And many false prophets will rise and deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many will become cold.” (Mat.24: 9-12).

                      John the Baptist was languishing in prison for righteousness’ sake. What was Jesus doing about it? NOTHING. So John sent his disciples to ask Jesus, “… Are You he who should come, or do we look for another?” (Mat.11: 3).

                      Jesus said, in effect, “Go and tell John about the works you’ve seen me do, and tell him, “… blessed is he, whoever shall not be offended in Me.” (Mat.11: 6).

                      “Truly I say to you, Among those who have been born of women there has not risen a greater one than John the Baptist. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.” (Mat.11: 11).

                      It doesn’t matter what great work we have done for the Lord – our works do not absolve us from tribulation for the sake of His name, or for the sake of righteousness. It doesn’t matter how faithful we have been, or consider ourselves to have been – JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS FAITHFUL – AND HOW! He gave up His whole life for the coming Messiah.

                      When Jesus seems to be doing NOTHING about our plight, we mustn’t become offended – we must simply ask God to keep us from falling, not trusting in ourselves, “And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.” (Luk.21: 28).

                      I think it’s time now for someone with good enough leadership capabilities to start a “tribulation preparation” private group in these Forums – and I think it’s time that we who know what’s coming, started loving and supporting one another. Manichunter, can you help with a "tribulation preparation private group?

                      Ananias.
                      "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

                      And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

                      Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
                      (Mat.23: 8-10)

                      AND

                      "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

                      By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
                      (Joh.13: 34-35)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, correction/judgement, begins at the house of God.

                        I don't see it as a judgement of whether or not one is saved or not, by head knowledge, but a judgement, that God has in place from the beginning. Whatsoever we sow, shall we reap..in both the physical and spiritual sense.

                        If we are truly born again, He leads us daily to a renewing of our minds, and I don't believe any true believer ever reaches a point where he/she does not need a continual renewing/correcting...but, God allows us to reap what we sow, in order to teach us things.

                        There does seem to be a mindset in the last days, that would think otherwise, as we read about in the book of revelation, where God shows us the "whore" whom sits as a queen, thinking pridefully that they do not need anything, and God rebukes them thoroughly and tells them they are even naked...because of their blind mindset...but, they are still God's people, and they are still loved by God,. and, He corrects, chastens, every son that He has.

                        I think pride is one of the biggest sins, and most likely why the church will be corrected through the tribulation, along with the world, whom will reap destruction, lest they repent.

                        There is an old saying....pride before the fall.

                        I think it will be true in that pride is what will cause the fall of babylon.


                        Everyone will reap what they themselves sow...both physically and spiritually...and, this world, that was destined to fall, will do so, because God will not be mocked...so, we have a choice to either be among the persecuted, or to be a persecutor. The choice is our own.

                        I don't see God being mocked...by mere men.

                        That is why it is my sincere hope and desire to seek God's will, and not my own...which would be my advice to all men...for, to scatter is not what God had intended for His people, but today, we live in a time where scattering is more acceptable, and gathering into God's true will is evil spoken of.


                        peaceandlove,

                        janet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bride Ready

                          Originally posted by manichunter View Post
                          His bride is not ready as I type.
                          His Bride has been ready for about 2000 years now. In fact, the Bride calls with the Spirit, "Come!".
                          sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                          http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
                            His Bride has been ready for about 2000 years now. In fact, the Bride calls with the Spirit, "Come!".
                            The Church is not ready for the Lords return. The state of the Church says differently. We are not united, under the same convictions, or of one theology. The prepared who wait with their lamps full of oil say come. However, that is not the rule, but exception right now. Most saints are doing the same things gentiles are doing. Marrying, keeping up with the Jones, and looking for their blessing instead of the blesser.

                            Christ said it will be like Sodom before His return. Sodom was in such a state of sin that God had to end it. Hence why God is returning. Sin will be so bad once again that God will have to end all flesh in judgment for sin. The saints can get caught up in this if they do not start repenting and preparing now.
                            Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

                            www.woc-church.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree the "church" is not ready. A lot of churches I visit seem more like an Amway convention / emotional orgy than the body of Messiah gathering to worship Him.

                              And I still haven't found anywhere in the bible where it says to 'go to church on Sunday'. All the convocations I see actually mandated by God are on Holy days, and 1st Century synagoues like the ones Jesus read Torah in and taught in were not at all like today's churches.

                              I wonder if today's churches have replaced some men's roles as priests? I don't mean intentionally, but there seems to be a lack of Christian men assuming the roles God gave them responsibility for.
                              Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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