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  • Is it natural?

    Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

    Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

    Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

    If all these are natural, then what is the crime?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
    Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

    Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

    Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

    If all these are natural, then what is the crime?
    Its 'natural' for some animals to kill and eat their young..or the young of others! But 'natural' does not mean this is how God made them to start with..or what He intended.

    Going back to Genesis the word 'good' in God's creation is used seven times. Seven in the bible means perfection..a reflection of God. Now when God creates something 'good' it means is PERFECT..its great, its wonderful, its awesome. There was no death then. No animals killing each other let alone their young...

    There was no humans harming each other either until sin entered the world. So their was no rape...no murder ..nothing that went against God.

    Isaiah 65:25
    The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the LORD.


    I think Isaiah gives us an idea of how it once was.

    Now sin has infected everything...animals kill, we kill, disease and suffering and death has come into the world. Nothing is truly 'natural' anymore..its unnatural...

    Why are you asking these questions anyway? Why would you think those things are natural in the first place?

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
      Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

      Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

      Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

      If all these are natural, then what is the crime?

      I'm not sure about our human nature but they are surely against our New Nature in Christ. CS Lewis covers this in Mere Christianity. http://www.philosophyforlife.com/mctoc.htm

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
        Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

        Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

        Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

        If all these are natural, then what is the crime?
        Do you mean natural to sin? If you had said normal then I would have assumed you meant according to percentages. The problem with having eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is that we do not know which is which! God is therefore the one who sets the standard and what seems quite natural to us because of sin, is unnatural to the purpose for which He created us. We have it upside down and so we need a guide to set us straight. Sin is natural, however that doesn't make it right. There lies the difference.
        Robin

        Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
        And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
        Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
        Those who compromise with Christ’s enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

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        • #5
          Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

          Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

          Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?
          Yes. It is our nature and it isn't our nature. Humans are a contradiction, which explains all of the problems we have.

          It is not our intended nature that we kill, it is not the image of God within us that causes us to want to kill. It is unnatural for us to desire to kill. At the same time, it is a part of our sin nature, it exists within our nature to kill, and genetically there is a desire to kill when put in a certain situation (same with everything else you listed). All of this, however, is because of the fall of humanity.

          If all these are natural, then what is the crime?
          It is within human nature - both intended by God and even post-fall - to want to procreate. This does not mean, however, that I have to procreate. I can choose not to. This means we can choose to go against our nature.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
            Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

            Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

            Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

            If all these are natural, then what is the crime?
            Is it not natural for a mother to eat her young? I have seen this in nature many times!

            Would you call it a crime?



            Is it not natural for the healthy siblings to turn on their crippled sister and tear out her neck with their teeth? I have seen this in nature!

            Would you call it a crime?



            Natural = occurring in nature.

            Crime = Cause harm to or oppress rights of another unconsenting individual.

            Yes.

            I, at least, would call of these things a crime.

            You do foolishly err in your attempts to place words in the mouth of the Christian church. None have called homosexuality a "crime".

            We call it abomination or sin, because they are such to God.

            Will you, somehow, prove to me that the Bible does not say homosexuality is an abomination to God? Disgust is subjective, it depends on the perspective, so there is no ground to argue that anything is absolutely "not" an abomination, therefore it is, accurate for us to say so in that it is stated as being an abomination to God.

            Will you, somehow, prove to me that the Bible does not say homosexuality is a sin unto God? That it is condemned? Sin refers to those things that are condemned by our religion, and seeing as this activity is condemned by our religion, then it is appropriate to refer to it as such.

            If you wish to fight this battle, then be prepared to do it properly. Do not come into this place putting words in other people's mouths so that you might mock them for "their" speech.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
              Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

              Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

              Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

              If all these are natural, then what is the crime?

              Do you need to teach a child to lie? Do you need to teach a child to share? Do you need to teach a child to respect?

              To live physically and die is natural. To be murdered is not natural. Even the world agrees that things like genocide should not be tolerated. Preservation of physical life is natural. To have it taken by another is not natural.

              Natural affection, what God designed us for, is between a man and a woman. Homosexual relations are not natural.

              Rape is a perversion of what is natural. Sex is one of the devils greatest tools to keep us from salvation.

              Our nature of sinful flesh makes all of these things temptations to some. Some people murder, some rape, some choose homosexuality. None of them are seen as acceptable, or natural and created or ordained by God.
              Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
              Not second or third, but first.
              Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
              when He is the source of all hope,
              when His love is received and freely given,
              holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
              will all other things be added unto to you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                Do you need to teach a child to lie? Do you need to teach a child to share? Do you need to teach a child to respect?

                To live physically and die is natural. To be murdered is not natural. Even the world agrees that things like genocide should not be tolerated. Preservation of physical life is natural. To have it taken by another is not natural.

                Natural affection, what God designed us for, is between a man and a woman. Homosexual relations are not natural.

                Rape is a perversion of what is natural. Sex is one of the devils greatest tools to keep us from salvation.

                Our nature of sinful flesh makes all of these things temptations to some. Some people murder, some rape, some choose homosexuality. None of them are seen as acceptable, or natural and created or ordained by God.
                He's arguing with a different definition of "natural" than you and I.

                We use the context where "right" is "natural".

                While he uses the context where "occurring in nature" is "natural".

                According to Webster, he may be considered correct in his diction, but it is merely a matter of surface semantics, not deeper meaning.

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                • #9
                  If that is true, then the "human" part of the nature is what's tripping me up. I assumed us human types.
                  Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                  Not second or third, but first.
                  Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                  when He is the source of all hope,
                  when His love is received and freely given,
                  holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                  will all other things be added unto to you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Those all belong to our fallen nature we inherited from Adam and are condemn by God as sin. Those with the new nature though they battle at times with the sinful nature they do not try to justify the behavior as ok but rather agree with God that it is sin and seek help and forgiveness through Christ Jesus.
                    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
                      Is homosexuality against human nature, or is it natural to for us?

                      Is murder against human nature, or is it natural to for us to murder one another?

                      Is rape against human nature, or is it natural to for us to rape?

                      If all these are natural, then what is the crime?
                      Homosexuality is not natural to our biology then it is not natural at all.

                      However, what is natural to man is not natural at all. Man has been corrupted by sin. Sin has become our nature. Hence was is right and nature has been lost to us. We are capable of anything since we can pervert anything against its original intent. So our sin nature is natural now, when it was never meant to be. Hence, anyone can go beyond what could be consider righteous and holy into corruption since the agent of disease called sin is in us waiting to pervert all things natural.
                      Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

                      www.woc-church.org

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                      • #12
                        I might sound like a hater here, but I see what is happenning. Homosexually is trying to make its self normal and natural within churches. I know of several all gay christian churches already. I have always seen openly gay choir members since my childhood. Now I am seeing infeminite preachers in the pulpit. I got one I open for what is on the horizon. I do not hate gays, but they cannot push themselves on the saints. I will not have misplaced compassion, that would be sin to me as well.

                        I love my gay brothers and sisters, but their sin is out in the open, hence they cannot hold office and authority within the church. They can be members, but that is not what some of them are after. They want approval for their actions and authority within the church.
                        Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

                        www.woc-church.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by manichunter View Post
                          I might sound like a hater here, but I see what is happenning. Homosexually is trying to make its self normal and natural within churches. I know of several all gay christian churches already. I have always seen openly gay choir members since my childhood. Now I am seeing infeminite preachers in the pulpit. I got one I open for what is on the horizon. I do not hate gays, but they cannot push themselves on the saints. I will not have misplaced compassion, that would be sin to me as well.

                          I love my gay brothers and sisters, but their sin is out in the open, hence they cannot hold office and authority within the church. They can be members, but that is not what some of them are after. They want approval for their actions and authority within the church.
                          Why would you have gay brothers and sisters (figure you are talking Christian folk). Gay "Christian" just doesn't work.


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                          • #14
                            Gay "Christian" works just as much as "gossiping Christian," "Gluttonous Christian", or "lying Christian."

                            Christians are Christians not because of their post-regeneration actions, but because of their faith in Christ and his atoning work.

                            Some Christians stuggle mightily and oftentimes, unsuccessfully, with overcoming sinful actions.

                            Doesn't mean they are not Christians.

                            Status as a Christian is faith-based, not works-based.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                              Gay "Christian" works just as much as "gossiping Christian," "Gluttonous Christian", or "lying Christian."

                              Christians are Christians not because of their post-regeneration actions, but because of their faith in Christ and his atoning work.

                              Some Christians stuggle mightily and oftentimes, unsuccessfully, with overcoming sinful actions.

                              Doesn't mean they are not Christians.

                              Status as a Christian is faith-based, not works-based.
                              Great thoughts..............

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