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  • Is eternal security "secure"?

    I have searched the Scripture and looked from both sides. My question is this: "Is eternal security biblical?" Like I said, I have searched Scripture. I have a some thoughts of my own. I just want so other oppinions on this matter. Thanks in advance for your responses.
    www.myspace.com/nazarinbassist

    http://seanwwilkinson.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Get ready man............and welcome to the boards.

    Yes its biblical. Let the games begin.

    Comment


    • #3
      I take it this is a hot topic.
      www.myspace.com/nazarinbassist

      http://seanwwilkinson.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        If you believe faith is something God instills in us or that we enter into a covenant when we accept Him as Lord, then you will believe we cannot lose our salvation. Instead, you would believe that the Scriptures tend to point to us being able to wander from God (because of our fallen nature), but Him lovingly, yet sternly, bringing us back into the fold. Likewise, you would believe sanctification is a huge aspect of Christianity - we have no license to sin and, in fact, because of sanctification will grow to detest sin in our lives.

        If, however, you believe faith is something we enter into or that we act on, then you're more likely to believe that we can lose our salvation. This puts us in charge of our own salvation rather than having God in charge of it. It allows for more free will than the previous view.

        I hold to the first view though - to me, Scripture makes it clear that we are chosen by God, covered by His grace, and sanctified by His Spirit.

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        • #5
          God knows who are His.

          All things are sustained by Him

          It is for Him all things were created

          The Son is the Agent by which the Father created our world

          Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith

          Jesus has the power of eternal life which He gives to those who belong to Him. God proved this by raising Him from the dead.

          Jesus is the One God has ordained to judge the world - which is also proved by the resurrection.

          Our hope is that He will bring us through death to stand in His presence because we believe we have forgiveness in the atonement He has provided for us and that He has the power to raise the dead.

          This promise which God has given to those who believe and put their faith in Him, is sustained by grace thru faith. Faith is thus the "conduit" by which grace and hope is given to us and which the Holy Spirit keeps alive in us.

          Those who are IN Christ are thus eternally secure as God keeps them in faith thru His word concerning the record He has given us of His Son and will never leave or forsake those whom He has given to Christ.

          If the Spirit of Christ abides in you then your hope is a genuine one that you have salvation according to His promise.

          If however you grieve the Holy Spirit by turning back to unbelief and sin then you have not continued to abide in faith. Faith is what must live in us and endure to the end, if we are to have our hope fulfilled.

          If we forsake the new covenant by denying the Lord who bought us then we shall die in our sins and face the coming judgment instead. Because there is only one sacrifice for sins, and if we deny the efficacy of that sacrifice, there is no other that will be given to us. This is why the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. If we abide in the truth we have received we are kept by the power of God, but if not we will be cut off.

          So the answer is yes for the believing, and no for the unbelieving.

          (John 20:27-29 KJV) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. {28} And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. {29} Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
          Robin

          Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
          And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
          Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
          Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BrokenOne View Post
            I have searched the Scripture and looked from both sides. My question is this: "Is eternal security biblical?" Like I said, I have searched Scripture. I have a some thoughts of my own. I just want so other oppinions on this matter. Thanks in advance for your responses.
            Umm..Eternal Security is OSAS(Once saved always saved) we essentially already have a thread like this that MikeBR opened...maybe the Op's can merge the two threads.

            http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133058&page=23

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
              Umm..Eternal Security is OSAS(Once saved always saved)
              Is eternal security really the same thing as OSAS. That guy in I Cor. whom Paul delievered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of fornication is going to be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Nevertheless, the enemy was able to cause quite a bit of destruction in the guys life before that. (I Cor. 5)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                Umm..Eternal Security is OSAS(Once saved always saved) we essentially already have a thread like this that MikeBR opened...maybe the Op's can merge the two threads.

                http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=133058&page=23

                I am sorry Friend of I AM if my posting of this thread bothers you since there seems to be another of its kind. I personally did not see the other at the time of posting this one. If repeating topics on this board is a bother to some and should not be allowed then this board would not be near as busy as it is. If they want to merge it then I have no control over that and that's fine. Once again I apologize for posting on the same topic since some apparently do not like this.
                www.myspace.com/nazarinbassist

                http://seanwwilkinson.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BrokenOne View Post
                  I am sorry Friend of I AM if my posting of this thread bothers you since there seems to be another of its kind. I personally did not see the other at the time of posting this one. If repeating topics on this board is a bother to some and should not be allowed them this board would not be near as busy as it is. If they want to merge it then I have no control over that and that's fine. Once again I apologize for posting on the same topic since some apparently do not like this.
                  No problem man. Didn't bother me any. Just wanted to let you know.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cwb View Post
                    Is eternal security really the same thing as OSAS. That guy in I Cor. whom Paul delievered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of fornication is going to be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Nevertheless, the enemy was able to cause quite a bit of destruction in the guys life before that. (I Cor. 5)
                    I think Paul also mentioned something about all of the Apostles and prophets/disciples being made spectacles of before the universe in Corinthians and being thought of as fools by the entire universe(men as well as angels), who were essentially doomed to destruction. (1 Cor 4:9-10)

                    To answer the original question though, I think eternal security is essentially the same thing as OSAS to be honest.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post

                      To answer the original question though, I think eternal security is essentially the same thing as OSAS to be honest.
                      Eternal security is the issue. Some believe that once we are born again we are OSAS - we are sealed and that is that and nothing can remove our hope of salvation. Some believe that once we are born again we are NOSAS - we are sealed but must produce fruit of the spirit in keeping in line with the faith walk. We have our part to do to remain close to Him.

                      Broken One, don't worry about there being another thread of this sort. This is occationally discussed here and for you to bring up to topic is fine. To keep 1 topic in 1 thread and that's that wouldn't make this place near as interesting as it can get to be! Welcome to the board!
                      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                      Not second or third, but first.
                      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                      when He is the source of all hope,
                      when His love is received and freely given,
                      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                      will all other things be added unto to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cwb View Post
                        Is eternal security really the same thing as OSAS. That guy in I Cor. whom Paul delievered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of fornication is going to be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Nevertheless, the enemy was able to cause quite a bit of destruction in the guys life before that. (I Cor. 5)
                        Well I guess an early death would be the ultimate chastisement to come upon a saint for his sin - if he remains stubbornly unrepentant. But elsewhere Paul does say to bring the erring brother back into the fellowship if he repents. Now you have me wondering if Ananias and Sapphira who lied to the Holy Spirit were saved in the day of their death when Peter brought that judgment upon them. I'll have to think about that some more...

                        Ok - is it possible that this precariousness concerning salvation was only in effect for a time? Heb 9:8 says the way into the holy of holies - which veil Jesus tore at the cross - was not yet made open while the earthly tabernacle remained standing. That would seem to imply that a benefit which was dependent upon remaining faithful and undefiled had not yet come when these words were penned. IOW continuing in sin at that time could cause one to lose their salvation - because wrath from God was coming.
                        Robin

                        Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
                        And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
                        Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
                        Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cwb View Post
                          Is eternal security really the same thing as OSAS. That guy in I Cor. whom Paul delievered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of fornication is going to be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Nevertheless, the enemy was able to cause quite a bit of destruction in the guys life before that. (I Cor. 5)

                          No, they aren't the same. I tend to use the term perseverance of the saints or eternal security. Both give off the idea that there is still an act of sanctification that comes with being saved - it isn't a one time act or a pit stop (such as OSAS).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i believe it is a biblical doctrine

                            true, genuine believers will never be snatched out of jesus' or his father's hands. although they may fall or backslide along the way, god will come for them to discipline, chasten, and do whatever it takes so they remain on the narrow path.

                            however, most of the "christians", particularly in america today, who believe this doctrine, do so to make an excuse for their sin. people who use this as an excuse to indulge in carnality are not true believers and are not even saved at all. charles spurgeon says it best:

                            "“If I believed that doctrine, I would live as I pleased,” says one. Then you are not one of his sheep, for his sheep love holiness, and will not love iniquity. The change brought about by the new birth is such that a man will not return to his old ways of sin and folly. This is the doctrine; and how can you make it to be an indulgence to sin? True saints never turn the grace of God into an excuse to ignore the very commands of God, but the very mention of eternal love leads them to careful obedience."

                            here are some great articles i recommend reading regarding this doctrine:

                            Eternal Security, Charles Spurgeon

                            Never Perish, J.C. Ryle

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BrokenOne View Post
                              I have searched the Scripture and looked from both sides. My question is this: "Is eternal security biblical?" Like I said, I have searched Scripture. I have a some thoughts of my own. I just want some other opinions on this matter. Thanks in advance for your responses.
                              Yes, it's biblical - IMO.

                              A good question to ask is, "Is eternal life eternal?" and, "When do we receive eternal life?"

                              As Charles Ryrie has said, "If eternal life can be lost, then it has the wrong name." Or something like that.

                              But I will not get involved in a debate on this topic.

                              BD
                              3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

                              BadDog!

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