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Who here believes 2 Peter 1:5-11 is speaking of losing salvation?

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  • Who here believes 2 Peter 1:5-11 is speaking of losing salvation?

    I want to point out a couple things that completely debunk this myth. I do not intend to leave the letters of Peter to prove this. I do not need to.

    1. Peter is addressing the same people he wrote to in his first letter.

    2. Since pt 1 is true based on 2 Pet 3.1, we know that both letters are addressed to born again believers (those who have received the same faith as he, God's elect).

    3. Most importantly, I want to point to 2 Peter 1:8 -- For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Point 3 is the clear giveaway. It says the preceding qualities keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful. NOT keep you from being SAVED.

    Furthermore, we must consider verse 9, which says; For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

    What is this saying? It is saying that if you do not possess these qualities, you're not saved ... right? It's saying that if you lack these qualities, you're in danger of losing your salvation .. right?

    Nope. It is saying the exact opposite! He says we are lacking these qualities because we have forgotten that we were cleansed already. So what is Peter trying to say? What he is saying is that we, as Christians, are capable of producing this fruit when our focus is on the right thing .. namely Christ. So what are we to do with this information? Continue to make our focus the One Thing it must be for us to continually live a life with those wonderful qualities. Oh the joy of the Cross! The freedom of the Cross!

    For a more in-depth understanding of this passage in this light, read this article:

    Notes on Our Ongoing Need of Redemption as Christians

    ^One of the better articles I've read in quite some time.^
    If we doubt or do not believe that God is gracious to us and is pleased with us, or if we presumptuously expect to please Him only through and after our works, then it is all pure deception, outwardly honoring God, but inwardly setting up self as a false [savior].... (Part X. XI) Excerpts from Martin Luther, Treatise Concerning Good Works (1520).

  • #2
    How do you interpret this then?
    • 2 Peter 1 : 11
      For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by theothersock View Post
      How do you interpret this then?
      • 2 Peter 1 : 11
        For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
      For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

      No need to "interpret" it. That word makes the intent of the verse clear. It is clear that the context speaks of one who either forgets they have been cleansed from their sins, or one who remembers. Either way, they are clean.

      Keep in mind ... the overarching message of the gospel is that Christ came to do what we could not. It is all of God. Hallelujah

      If we doubt or do not believe that God is gracious to us and is pleased with us, or if we presumptuously expect to please Him only through and after our works, then it is all pure deception, outwardly honoring God, but inwardly setting up self as a false [savior].... (Part X. XI) Excerpts from Martin Luther, Treatise Concerning Good Works (1520).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by humbled View Post
        For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

        No need to "interpret" it. That word makes the intent of the verse clear. It is clear that the context speaks of one who either forgets they have been cleansed from their sins, or one who remembers. Either way, they are clean.

        Keep in mind ... the overarching message of the gospel is that Christ came to do what we could not. It is all of God. Hallelujah

        Great point and well written. What pains me the most is that folks of the opposite "opinion" are working off of just that, their opinion. If one will just not draw a single, or a part of verse out of context there could be no heresy. Folks just seem determined to ignore the truth that the entire Bible is written in one context.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by humbled View Post
          I want to point out a couple things that completely debunk this myth. I do not intend to leave the letters of Peter to prove this. I do not need to.

          1. Peter is addressing the same people he wrote to in his first letter.

          2. Since pt 1 is true based on 2 Pet 3.1, we know that both letters are addressed to born again believers (those who have received the same faith as he, God's elect).

          3. Most importantly, I want to point to 2 Peter 1:8 -- For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

          Point 3 is the clear giveaway. It says the preceding qualities keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful. NOT keep you from being SAVED.

          Furthermore, we must consider verse 9, which says; For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

          What is this saying? It is saying that if you do not possess these qualities, you're not saved ... right? It's saying that if you lack these qualities, you're in danger of losing your salvation .. right?

          Nope. It is saying the exact opposite! He says we are lacking these qualities because we have forgotten that we were cleansed already. So what is Peter trying to say? What he is saying is that we, as Christians, are capable of producing this fruit when our focus is on the right thing .. namely Christ. So what are we to do with this information? Continue to make our focus the One Thing it must be for us to continually live a life with those wonderful qualities. Oh the joy of the Cross! The freedom of the Cross!

          For a more in-depth understanding of this passage in this light, read this article:

          Notes on Our Ongoing Need of Redemption as Christians

          ^One of the better articles I've read in quite some time.^
          Well done - very well written!
          ----------------------------------------------
          When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

          Comment


          • #6
            ProjectPeter(Ken) this is your que to jump in.

            I would love to put my thoughts in the mix but I am out of time for right now. This could be a good discussion

            I will add...

            10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


            Fall from where?????????

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by th1bill View Post
              Great point and well written. What pains me the most is that folks of the opposite "opinion" are working off of just that, their opinion. If one will just not draw a single, or a part of verse out of context there could be no heresy. Folks just seem determined to ignore the truth that the entire Bible is written in one context.

              To the contrary, I think it is the "other" crowd that is inserting opinion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                ProjectPeter(Ken) this is your que to jump in.
                I didn't think it would take this long, actually




                Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                Fall from where?????????
                Fall from effectiveness and fruitfulness, of course. For that is the exact point Peter makes just two verses before.

                The concept that one can "fall from grace", even in its original context in Galatians, does not mean "lose salvation" ... that phrase as used by Paul means to forget the gospel of divine grace and "fall back" into a legalistic idea of salvation by works. I would daresay that anyone who believes NOSAS and specifically that this particular passage in 2 Peter speaks of a need to "work out your salvation" in the literal sense is falling FROM grace themselves, and falling INTO works.

                Would you like to try addressing the points made in the OP? For if one cannot disagree with them, then the comments made by the following dissenters are contradictory to the context of the passage.
                If we doubt or do not believe that God is gracious to us and is pleased with us, or if we presumptuously expect to please Him only through and after our works, then it is all pure deception, outwardly honoring God, but inwardly setting up self as a false [savior].... (Part X. XI) Excerpts from Martin Luther, Treatise Concerning Good Works (1520).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by humbled View Post
                  I didn't think it would take this long, actually




                  Fall from effectiveness and fruitfulness, of course. For that is the exact point Peter makes just two verses before.

                  The concept that one can "fall from grace", even in its original context in Galatians, does not mean "lose salvation" ... that phrase as used by Paul means to forget the gospel of divine grace and "fall back" into a legalistic idea of salvation by works. I would daresay that anyone who believes NOSAS and specifically that this particular passage in 2 Peter speaks of a need to "work out your salvation" in the literal sense is falling FROM grace themselves, and falling INTO works.

                  Would you like to try addressing the points made in the OP? For if one cannot disagree with them, then the comments made by the following dissenters are contradictory to the context of the passage.
                  Wasn't my comments in context of the topic...

                  "Who here believes 2 Peter 1:5-11 is speaking of losing salvation"...remember

                  I believe my comments were within the scope of the topic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                    Wasn't my comments in context of the topic...

                    "Who here believes 2 Peter 1:5-11 is speaking of losing salvation"...remember

                    I believe my comments were within the scope of the topic.
                    Fair enough
                    ............. (<-- adding characters to make the minimum requirement of 15 ... come to think of it, the text explaining the added dots does that, too, doesn't it? hmm. now what?)
                    If we doubt or do not believe that God is gracious to us and is pleased with us, or if we presumptuously expect to please Him only through and after our works, then it is all pure deception, outwardly honoring God, but inwardly setting up self as a false [savior].... (Part X. XI) Excerpts from Martin Luther, Treatise Concerning Good Works (1520).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                      ProjectPeter(Ken) this is your que to jump in.

                      I would love to put my thoughts in the mix but I am out of time for right now. This could be a good discussion

                      I will add...

                      10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


                      Fall from where?????????

                      I looked up the word fall in strongs and it said "trip or sin". So maybe it is saying that if we do these things we will not sin. Just a thought. Great discussion though.
                      www.myspace.com/nazarinbassist

                      http://seanwwilkinson.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrokenOne View Post
                        I looked up the word fall in strongs and it said "trip or sin". So maybe it is saying that if we do these things we will not sin. Just a thought. Great discussion though.
                        Thank you

                        I didn't even think to look up the word itself. I was merely going by the overall context of the passage. That makes much more sense.
                        If we doubt or do not believe that God is gracious to us and is pleased with us, or if we presumptuously expect to please Him only through and after our works, then it is all pure deception, outwardly honoring God, but inwardly setting up self as a false [savior].... (Part X. XI) Excerpts from Martin Luther, Treatise Concerning Good Works (1520).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BrokenOne View Post
                          I looked up the word fall in strongs and it said "trip or sin". So maybe it is saying that if we do these things we will not sin. Just a thought. Great discussion though.
                          The definition of "if"...on the condition that, in the event that

                          And IF you fall into sin then you will not receive a rich welcome into the kingdom.

                          See the "For if you do these things" part just before "you will never fall" that makes this whole phrase a conditional statement...hence to receive a rich welcome, one would have to not fall. IF one fell then they would not receive a rich welcome...it is that simple.

                          So yes fall is "sin" and sin has been and always will be separation from God.

                          But the good news is...through repentance that sin can be erased

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The word 'fall' in 2 Peter 1:10 is [pipto]

                            Taken from Vines:

                            <B-1,Verb,4098,pipto>
                            "to fall," is used (a) of descent, to "fall" down from, e.g., Mat_10:29; Mat_13:4; (b) of a lot, Act_1:26; (c) of "falling" under judgment, Jam_5:12 (cp. Rev_18:2, RV); (d) of persons in the act of prostration, to prostrate oneself, e.g., Mat_17:6; Joh_18:6; Rev_1:17; in homage and workship, e.g., Mat_2:11; Mar_5:22; Rev_5:14; Rev_19:4; (e) of things, "falling" into ruin, or failing, e.g., Mat_7:25; Luk_16:17, RV, "fall," for AV, "fail;" Heb_11:30; (f) of "falling" in judgement upon persons, as of the sun's heat, Rev_7:16, RV, "strike," AV, "light;" of a mist and darkness, Act_13:11 (some mss. have epipipto); (g) of persons, in "falling" morally or spiritually, Rom_14:4; 1Co_10:8, 1Co_10:12; Rev_2:5

                            How some folk can take the word 'fall' or 'fallen', and get it to mean 'severed from Christ Jesus', is nothing short of baffling.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                              The definition of "if"...on the condition that, in the event that

                              And IF you fall into sin then you will not receive a rich welcome into the kingdom.

                              See the "For if you do these things" part just before "you will never fall" that makes this whole phrase a conditional statement...hence to receive a rich welcome, one would have to not fall. IF one fell then they would not receive a rich welcome...it is that simple.

                              So yes fall is "sin" and sin has been and always will be separation from God.

                              But the good news is...through repentance that sin can be erased
                              Yep!

                              Repent (escape the worldly corruption), believe through faith then work through your salvation by the steps laid out. If we possess these qualities and are adding to them (striving), meaning to persevere, we have purpose and fruit.

                              If we are lacking, not striving or possessing, we are blind, short sighted (lost sight of what is eternal, worldly focused), and have laid aside the sacrafice of the Son of God that had made us clean. Without the sacrafice, there is no purifucation from sin. Should we find ourselves in this camp - we need to go back to what we are lacking in - get back on the horse where we fell off - and stay on the good path.

                              If we don't, we become lacking all the more, having nothing, seeing nothing and focused not on Christ but the world, not covered by the sacrafice for purification of sin.

                              If we do - we have an abudance because of our faith.
                              Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                              Not second or third, but first.
                              Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                              when He is the source of all hope,
                              when His love is received and freely given,
                              holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                              will all other things be added unto to you.

                              Comment

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