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  • Speaking in Tongues

    The term “Charismatic” derives from the Greek word
    charismata meaning gifts and particularly spiritual gifts.

    http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lec...umlecture4.pdf

  • #2
    I believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit-and speak in tongues-and even have given messages in tongues in the church service-but I am not Charismatic-I'm a Pentecostal Christian.

    Comment


    • #3
      How important are Signs & Wonders?

      • St. Paul listed the fruit of the Holy Spirit in his Epistle to the Galatians, he said, “But the fruit of the
      Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control”
      (Gal 5:22,23). These virtues are more important for our salvation than signs and wonders because
      many have performed signs and wonders and yet lost their eternal life as our Lord said, “Many will
      say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your
      name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
      depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Mt 7:22,23)

      • When the disciples rejoiced that they were performing miracles and that the demons are subject to
      them, our Lord said to them, “do not rejoice in this ... but rather rejoice because your names are
      written in heaven” (Lk 10:20)

      • Moreover, pride may be associated with signs and wonders; therefore, St. Paul was given a physical
      infirmity lest he should be exalted by the abundance of the revelations (2 Cor 12:7)

      • St. Paul said, “The coming of the lawless one [the antichrist] is according to the working of Satan,
      with all power, signs, and lying wonders ...” (2 Thess 2:9) thus those who are seeking signs are more
      vulnerable to be deceived.
      Last edited by Enoch365; Aug 5th 2008, 09:17 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree that it's not necessary for salvation.
        I agree that there is confusion about what it is good for.
        I agree that it could potentially cause pride - just as any other spiritual gift could.
        I agree that not all Christians speak in tongues.
        Maybe it will "cease" one day.
        I speak in tongues and it has improved my prayer life in an awesome way. It has edified me personally. I have translated the tongue of others for the edification of the church. Yeah, I don't have all the answers either. But, these things I know.

        In love.............

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Enoch365 View Post
          E How important are Signs & Wonders?

          • St. Paul listed the fruit of the Holy Spirit in his Epistle to the Galatians, he said, “But the fruit of the
          Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control”
          (Gal 5:22,23). These virtues are more important for our salvation than signs and wonders because
          many have performed signs and wonders and yet lost their eternal life as our Lord said, “Many will
          say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your
          name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
          depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” (Mt 7:22,23)

          • When the disciples rejoiced that they were performing miracles and that the demons are subject to
          them, our Lord said to them, “do not rejoice in this ... but rather rejoice because your names are
          written in heaven” (Lk 10:20)

          • Moreover, pride may be associated with signs and wonders; therefore, St. Paul was given a physical
          infirmity lest he should be exalted by the abundance of the revelations (2 Cor 12:7)

          • St. Paul said, “The coming of the lawless one [the antichrist] is according to the working of Satan,
          with all power, signs, and lying wonders ...” (2 Thess 2:9) thus those who are seeking signs are more
          vulnerable to be deceived.
          Good points. Due to the revelations God had given him, Paul actually had to pray to God himself that he wouldn't become too boastful on the path. As you stated, more important than the gifts are our attitudes/fruits of the spirit during the walk.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
            I believe in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit-and speak in tongues-and even have given messages in tongues in the church service

            Just wondering.
            In those church services, were all the people present English speaking people; or did the audience contain non-English speaking people whom you spoke the message to them in their own tongue?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
              Just wondering.
              In those church services, were all the people present English speaking people; or did the audience contain non-English speaking people whom you spoke the message to them in their own tongue?
              Yep, they were all English speaking people and no, I didn't speak the message in their own tongue.

              For he who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to man but to God--indeed no one understands.

              That's why the gift of interpretation is needed.

              tongues + interpretation. They go together in the church.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by merjorg View Post
                I agree that it's not necessary for salvation.
                I agree that there is confusion about what it is good for.
                I agree that it could potentially cause pride - just as any other spiritual gift could.
                I agree that not all Christians speak in tongues.
                Maybe it will "cease" one day.
                I speak in tongues and it has improved my prayer life in an awesome way. It has edified me personally. I have translated the tongue of others for the edification of the church. Yeah, I don't have all the answers either. But, these things I know.

                In love.............
                Me too! 'Cept I have not been used in the gift of interpretation-at least not yet-I'm praying for it though!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Keep in mind that Paul said not to forbid speaking in tongues, (1 Corinthians 14:39)

                  he wished that all of us spoke in tongues... meaning we should all do it (1 Cor 14:5)

                  and he spoke in tongues more than the Corinthian church. (1 Corinthians 14:18).. which could be called in our day the Corinth First Church of Tongues and Gifts...
                  The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                    Yep, they were all English speaking people and no, I didn't speak the message in their own tongue.

                    For he who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to man but to God--indeed no one understands.

                    That's why the gift of interpretation is needed.

                    tongues + interpretation. They go together in the church.
                    Had you spoken in English directly to the English Congregation would they and God understood and been edified?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                      Had you spoken in English directly to the English Congregation would they and God understood and been edified?

                      Yes, that's called prophesy. tongues + interpretation = prophesy. The gifts of the Spirit are given "as the Spirit wills" and are not ours to choose. If the Lord wanted to use me in the gift of prophesy-I would have been willing-but He asked me to give a message in tongues and I obeyed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks.
                        I think you answered all of my questions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                          he wished that all of us spoke in tongues... meaning we should all do it (1 Cor 14:5)
                          The rest of that verse is : ...but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

                          In my past studies on speaking in tongues, I have come to the conclusion, thru scripture, that it is ok if all that are around understand. If someone is present that doesn't understand, interpretation is a must.

                          __________

                          Jim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            • Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit by which the ability to speak a
                            foreign language without having to be taught it or knowing it beforehand is granted to the person.
                            This is clear from the Holy Scripture (Acts 2:1-13) in which the events of Pentecost are described,
                            and at which time this divine gift first appeared.

                            • The speaking of foreign languages, by the grace of the Holy Spirit, manifested itself, as a miracle, for
                            the first time in history on the Day of Pentecost; with this divine gift the apostles began to preach in
                            other languages (15 foreign languages) to the visitors who came to attend the feast at Jerusalem.

                            • The apostles were simple men of Galilee and it was impossible for them to know another language
                            except the Aramaic they had learned at home yet the Jews of other nations, who had as their mother
                            tongue the language of the nation in which they lived, understood everything from the divine
                            preaching of the apostles who spoke to them with precision in their own language without needing a
                            translator, and it is in exactly this that the miracle rests.

                            • Among the listeners of the preaching there were also some that did not understand anything that the
                            apostles said and subsequently mocked them thinking that they were drunk (Acts 2:13). This group
                            can be none other than the residents of Jerusalem who did not know other languages except Aramaic.
                            For these men the preaching of the Apostles was completely unintelligible as it was prophesied, “with
                            stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people.” (Is 28:11)

                            • Thus, the residents of Jerusalem did not understand anything from the preaching, unless someone
                            translated it for them. For just as there is the gift of speaking in tongues (foreign languages), there
                            also exists the gift of translation. This was given when those listening were only locals ignorant of
                            other languages, as was, for instance, the case in Corinth for St. Paul said, “if anyone speaks in a
                            tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no
                            interpreter, let him keep silent in church ...” (1 Cor 14:27,28)

                            • The gift of translation was itself also miraculous, just as was that of speaking in foreign languages, on
                            which it was directly dependent as St. Paul said, “unless you utter by the tongue words easy to
                            understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. There are, it
                            may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
                            Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks,
                            and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me ... therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he
                            may interpret.” (1 Cor 14:9)

                            • The gift of speaking in foreign languages played a decisive role in evangelism and was manifested
                            among unbelievers as a sign of the power of God as St. Paul said, “tongues are for a sign, not to those
                            who believe but to unbelievers” (1 Cor 14:22) for what meaning does it have for someone to speak
                            about the Lord in a foreign language to someone who was taught, believed and lived his Christian
                            faith from his childhood?

                            • The purpose of this gift was for the apostles to be able to spread, through preaching in foreign
                            languages, the Christian faith to all people and to make the Holy Gospel known throughout the world.
                            Thus, God did not give the gift of speaking in foreign tongues for all time, until the end of the world
                            but rather for a special period of time with the aim of making it easier for unbelievers to convert to
                            Christianity and thus St. Paul prophesied that this gift would cease (1 Cor 13:8).

                            • In addition to being given for a certain period of time in the Church, the gift of speaking foreign
                            tongues is not a common gift for all Christians as St. Paul wonders, “Are all apostles? Are all
                            prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in
                            tongues? Do all interpret?” (1 Cor 12:29,30)

                            • The gift of speaking foreign tongues is not the greatest among the gifts of God. St. Paul says that
                            there are other greater gifts of the Holy Spirit than that of speaking in tongues, “I wish that you all
                            spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who
                            speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification” (1 Cor
                            14:5) and elsewhere he also says, “if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak
                            with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you
                            are out of your mind?” (1 Cor 14:23)

                            • Consequently, the gifts of prophecy, preaching and interpretation of Holy Scripture are much higher
                            than the gift of speaking in foreign tongues, for with these the believers are built up and benefit much
                            more than with the gift of linguistics or speaking different languages. Moreover, St. Paul said,
                            “though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become a sounding
                            brass or a clanging cymbal” (1 Cor 13:1).

                            • The gift of speaking in foreign languages is not associated with a state of ecstasy in which the person
                            may speak inarticulate and incomprehensible human sounds and experience certain movements of the
                            body such as shaking and falling on the ground, which in fact defeats the very purpose of the gift that
                            is to communicate the Christian faith to foreign unbelievers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the info, Enoch!

                              Are you just sharing the information with the board in bullet points or are the premises you lay out meant to point to a certain conclusion?

                              I've never seen anyone "shake and fall to the ground" when speaking in tongues. I guess I've heard of people doing that, but I've certainly never witnessed it.

                              Interestingly, I have seen this: A young man (early 20's) had been living on the roof of a department store for several months. His wife had his child and then left him behind, refusing to allow him to see his child. He turned to drugs and ended up on the street, completely broken. I was talking to him and he "recommitted" (or perhaps it was an actual salvation) on the spot. Very genuine, very heartfelt, tears coming down his face. I put him up in a hotel and we sat in the room and talked. He began to weep something terrible. I had never in my life seen a man cry like he was crying. I began to pray...it's the only thing I wanted to do or could bring myself to do. As I was praying, he suddenly began to speak in tongues for quite some time. He prayed and prayed in tongues while he continued to weep uncontrollably. No English was coming out...just tongues for several minutes. Now, I don't know much about "signs" and "wonders", I just know what I saw that night was something I could have never scripted.

                              And you're right...the bible certainly makes it clear that it's not the most important of the gifts.

                              Thanks again for all the info you shared.

                              Comment

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