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Is the modern-day state of Israel a fulfillment of prophecy?

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  • Is the modern-day state of Israel a fulfillment of prophecy?

    Is the modern-day state of Israel a fulfillment of prophecy?

    Is it one of these things that just happens outside of God's will?

    Is the answer unknown/unknowable?
    49
    Yes. It can be shown from the writings of the prophets.
    59.18%
    29
    No. Israel is not longer chosen/the prophecy was fulfilled metaphorically/other
    30.61%
    15
    I don't know/It's impossible to know
    10.20%
    5

  • #2
    I voted 'yes'.

    (would anyone expect otherwise? )

    Comment


    • #3
      There are verses all over the bible that support my contention. For example, Zachariah 8:


      1. And the word of the Lord of Hosts came [to me], saying:

      2. So said the Lord of Hosts: I am jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and with great fury I am jealous for her.

      3. So said the Lord: I will return to Zion, and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called the city of truth, and the mount of the Lord of Hosts [shall be called] the holy mountain.

      4. So said the Lord of Hosts: Old men and women shall yet sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each man with his staff in his hand because of old age.

      5. And the streets of the city shall be filled, with boys and girls playing in its streets.

      6. So said the Lord of Hosts: As it will be wonderful in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, it will also be wonderful in My eyes, says the Lord of Hosts.

      7. So said the Lord of Hosts: Behold I will save My people from the land of the east and from the land of the west.

      8. And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and they shall be My people, and I shall be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

      9. So said the Lord of Hosts: Let your hands be strong, you who hear in these days these words from the mouth of the prophets that were [prophesying] in the day that the foundation of the house of the Lord of Hosts was laid, even the Temple, that it might be built.

      10. For before those days, there was no hire for man; neither was there any hire for beast. And for him that went out or came in, there was no peace because of the adversary, and I would incite all men, each one against his neighbor.

      11. But now I am not [the same] to the remnant of this people as in the early days, said the Lord of Hosts.

      12. For the sowing is for peace. The vine shall give forth its fruit, and the earth shall give forth its produce, and the heavens shall give forth their dew-and I will cause the remnant of this people to inherit all these.

      13. And it shall come to pass that [just] as you were a curse among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, so will I save you-and you shall be a blessing. Fear not; may your hands be strengthened!

      14. For so said the Lord of Hosts: As I planned to do evil to you when your forefathers provoked Me-said the Lord of Hosts-and I did not repent,

      15. so have I turned about. I have planned in these days to do good to Jerusalem and to the house of Judah; do not fear.

      16. These are the things that you shall do: Speak the truth each one with his neighbor; truth, and judgment of peace you shall judge in your cities.

      17. And let no one think evil of his neighbors in your heart, nor shall you love a false oath-for all these are what I hate, says the Lord.

      18. And the word of the Lord of Hosts came to me, saying:

      19. So said the Lord of Hosts: The fast of the fourth [month], the fast of the fifth [month], the fast of the seventh [month], and the fast of the tenth [month] shall be for the house of Judah for joy and happiness and for happy holidays-but love truth and peace.

      20. So said the Lord of Hosts: [There will] yet [be a time] that peoples and the inhabitants of many cities shall come.

      21. And the inhabitants of one shall go to another, saying, "Let us go to pray before the Lord and to entreat the Lord of Hosts. I, too, will go."

      22. And many peoples and powerful nations shall come to entreat the Lord of Hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.

      23. So said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fenris View Post
        I voted 'yes'. (would anyone expect otherwise? )
        Hello, Fenris! I also vote yes. I believe this with all my heart, and it makes me sad to see how my country is pushing Israel into a "peace" treaty that will put their existence into a terrible danger. But I also think that this push to make Israel give up parts of its land is foretold by the Old Testament prophets too. Some verses I see that may speak to this are Zechariah 1:15-21, which says there will be four world powers that will humble and scatter Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. The four world powers are nations that live in peace and security, and I can think of a few that might fit that description pressing Israel right now, including the U.S. Apparently there will also be four world powers that will set out to terrify and destroy those four. They are described as blacksmiths or carpenters, leading me to suspect they are "builders" of some kind--perhaps nations who are beginning to build up weapons, such as Iran, or whose economic status is beginning to become powerful, such as China, Russia, etc. Another verse is Micah 2:5, which says others will set Israel's boundaries, and Israel will have no say in how the land is divided. And Joel 3:4-6 speaks of Tyre, Sidon, and Philistia removing Israelis far from their territory by selling them to the Greeks.

        I love Israel, and I know that they are going to go through some very difficult times as God's plans unfold. But I also know that God loves Israel and will miraculously preserve a remnant through all the difficult days--a remnant who will love and serve Him and to whom He will send the Messiah in the last days. This is what I will be praying for!

        Comment


        • #5
          This might surprise you Fenris, but I actually put "I don't know."

          I lean more toward it being a partial fulfillment of prophecy. Certainly having the land given back, defending it against 5 nations while still establishing the land, defending it against 5 nations again in 1967 (and in 6 days no less), and so on...it is difficult to say God is not involved.

          At the same time, the prophecies also speak of a spiritual return - yet Israel has become more and more secular in her existence. It seems there is quite a bit left in terms of prophecy.

          Comment


          • #6
            I voted yes too. I think it is clear that it is a fulfillment of prophecy. At least it is clear to me.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
              This might surprise you Fenris, but I actually put "I don't know."

              I lean more toward it being a partial fulfillment of prophecy.
              I agree. But partial fulfillment is still fulfillment. Just that more is yet to come.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wombat View Post
                Hello, Fenris! I also vote yes.
                You've made a very interesting post.

                Some verses I see that may speak to this are Zechariah 1:15-21, which says there will be four world powers that will humble and scatter Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.
                I think much of this has already happened, but some may still be yet to come.
                I love Israel, and I know that they are going to go through some very difficult times as God's plans unfold. But I also know that God loves Israel and will miraculously preserve a remnant through all the difficult days--a remnant who will love and serve Him and to whom He will send the Messiah in the last days. This is what I will be praying for!
                Hopefully all of Israel will be protected by the Lord.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I vote yes. That has been central to my awareness for a long time. It has major implications for what we can expect to happen before the end of the generation born in 1948.
                  Blessings,

                  Road Warrior


                  Proverbs 4:23
                  23 Guard your heart above all else,
                  for it determines the course of your life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been reading Jeremiah lately, which is powerful on the subject, naturally.

                    Interestingly, Jeremiah says that God promised that Ephraim would be regathered too... which did not happen during the partial regathering, and I'm pretty sure isn't happening now.

                    In fact, right now it appears that nobody but God knows where the ten tribes are...

                    But He promised they would be part of the regathering, crying out His love towards them.

                    So, given how much Christians stake on the fulfillment of Jeremiah and the promise of a New Covenant... naturally!

                    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...037&version=31

                    A Messianic Jew that I know has spoken to me about Ezekiel's prophecy of the valley of the dried bones. A regathering, first without life, but later with life. In the present time a secular Israel is regathering, it appears... a regathering with no Life in it. Bones that regrow flesh and sinew, the appearance of what should be alive, but no breath in it.
                    11 Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "
                    Of course, the very next passage is about the lost 10 tribes coming back too.
                    15 The word of the LORD came to me: 16 "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.
                    As a Christian, I see this as not just a revival in the following of Moses' Law, but a discovery of the Messiah that came.

                    24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.
                    I see there David's descendant...
                    26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant.
                    Cross-reference with Jeremiah 31.

                    31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
                    "when I will make a new covenant
                    with the house of Israel
                    and with the house of Judah.

                    32 It will not be like the covenant
                    I made with their forefathers
                    when I took them by the hand
                    to lead them out of Egypt,
                    because they broke my covenant
                    ,
                    though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
                    declares the LORD.

                    33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
                    after that time," declares the LORD.
                    "I will put my law in their minds
                    and write it on their hearts.
                    I will be their God,
                    and they will be my people.

                    34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
                    or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
                    because they will all know me,
                    from the least of them to the greatest,"
                    declares the LORD.
                    "For I will forgive their wickedness
                    and will remember their sins no more."
                    Yeah, that's all stuff firmly enmeshed in the Christian understanding of how all this fits together.
                    One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father over us all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                      I agree. But partial fulfillment is still fulfillment. Just that more is yet to come.
                      Fair enough. If I could change my vote to fulfilled, I would.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Using the picture of Ezekiel's dry bones prophecy, I believe the bones are assembled waiting for flesh and spirit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                          Is the modern-day state of Israel a fulfillment of prophecy?

                          Is it one of these things that just happens outside of God's will?

                          Is the answer unknown/unknowable?
                          Hi Fenris.

                          No, it is ( the State of Israel) not ourside prophecy. But it is not the fulfillment of the promised Re-gathering.

                          This present State is the 'beast out of the sea' of the nations, spoken of in Rev. 13. And from this willc come the false messiah. He will, within 7 years, build the temple.

                          Jews, the rest of the remnant, will be saved as they receive HaMoshiah Yeshua.

                          2Witnesses

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 2Witnesses View Post
                            This present State is the 'beast out of the sea' of the nations, spoken of in Rev. 13. And from this willc come the false messiah. He will, within 7 years, build the temple.
                            Is that bad? I don't know the refrence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                              Is that bad? I don't know the refrence.

                              Yes Fenris, It is VERY bad. Duh!!! He will deceive people like you (unless you remember what is spoken here). And he will seek to kill you that is, all the remnant. Be afraid!@!!! Be Very afraid!!!!

                              Listen. They hate it when people 'date' things. But a person who is alive and in israeli politics today, will promise to re-build the temple. Watch for this!

                              2Witnesses

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