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  • Discussion What is legalism

    Liberal/Moderate evangelicals and Charismatics may consider me a legalist.

    So often do these types believe that obeying the scriptures and being dogmatic about them and what they teach is legalism. This is not legalism by any stretch for Jesus said that if you loved me you would do what I say. We have the Bible for a reason and this is to obey it and teach it. Doing so is obedience and not legalism.

    Legalism is this.

    le·gal·ism n
    1. strict adherence to a literal interpretation of a law, rule, or religious or moral code
    2. a word or phrase in legal jargon
    3. the belief that good deeds are required for entrance into Heaven

    Encartaź World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.


    I want to issue a challenge to the liberal/moderate and charismatic men and women posting in this board.

    Try experiencing a Fundamentalist culture for a change and for a period. Then after you will re-consider your views on legalism.


    There you will/may be judged if you do the following.

    Go to movies
    Dance
    Own a TV
    Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
    Worship God in a Contemporary form
    Mix swim
    Have a beard
    Have long hair
    Use the NIV


    etc..

    Liberal/moderate evangelicals and charismatics have no idea what they are talking about when they call me a legalist.

  • #2
    I view legalism as 2 different things:

    1.)
    Putting requirements in front of salvation
    In order to be saved you must be circumcised, baptized, keep the law ect

    2.)
    Adding man-made requirements to Yahweh's word
    A christian can't;
    Go to movies
    Dance
    Own a TV
    Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
    Worship God in a Contemporary form
    Mix swim
    Have a beard
    Have long hair
    Use the NIV


    This is what Messiah blasted the religious leaders for, adding to Yahweh's Torah.
    He never said obeying Torah was bad or a yoke - it's what man added that was a yoke.

    It's all about relationship - and obedience to Yahshua and Yahweh's Word flows from that relationship.

    Making the focus about obedience is taking the wrong angle and perspective.

    Adding man-made rules like those listed makes it about religion and traditions of men.
    A form of Godliness denying the power there of - which is in essence a work of the flesh, creating ones own righteousness which is as filthy rags.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by poochie View Post
      Have a beard
      Have long hair
      Ironically, most churches portray Jesus as long-haired and bearded (and, I daresay, the "legalist" churches do this more).
      To This Day

      Comment


      • #4
        Eaglenester,

        Very well put. It is a shame that man has turned the Law of Liberty into a yoke of bondage.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by markedward View Post
          Ironically, most churches portray Jesus as long-haired and bearded (and, I daresay, the "legalist" churches do this more).
          It's a blasphemous image.
          "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:49

          "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" - 1 Corinthians 11:14

          "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." - Revelation 20:6

          Comment


          • #6
            The belief that you can add to or attribute to salvation by justifying or proving yourself righteous before God. God needed the sacrifice of his son plus what you can do as well. Believing that you have a requirement to accomplish to complete and finalized your salvation.

            I am a Torah ascriber, but I do not believe in legalism. This is a contradiction and impossibility to some because they detach obedience from love and trust. However, my obedience to it does not add anything to my justification or righteousness, but is a reflection of my love and trust.
            Last edited by manichunter; Aug 20th 2008, 09:57 PM.
            Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

            www.woc-church.org

            Comment


            • #7
              Rufus did you mae that up or cite the wrong scripture? I dont recall ever seeing the word "godhead" in scripture.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think legalism is an attitude. When a man thinks he is better than everyone else simply because he keeps the rules, he is a legalist.

                Jesus told a parable in which he compared two men who went to the temple to pray. Read that parable and decide which one is the legalist.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Godhead

                  Originally posted by Emanate View Post
                  Rufus did you mae that up or cite the wrong scripture? I dont recall ever seeing the word "godhead" in scripture.
                  Remarkably enough, it appears three times in the Holy Bible...
                  "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:29

                  "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" - Romans 1:20

                  "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." - Colossians 2:9

                  "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." - Revelation 20:6

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by poochie View Post
                    There you will/may be judged if you do the following.

                    Go to movies
                    Dance
                    Own a TV
                    Listen to Contemporary Christian Music
                    Worship God in a Contemporary form
                    Mix swim
                    Have a beard
                    Have long hair
                    Use the NIV
                    How, precisely, would this judgment take place?
                    ----------------------------------------------
                    When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by manichunter View Post
                      The belief that you can add to or attribute to salvation by justifying or proving yourself righteous before God. God needed the sacrifice of his son plus what you can do as well. Believing that you have a required me to accomplish to complete and finalized your salvation.

                      I am a Torah ascriber, but I do not believe in legalism. This is a contradiction and impossibility to some. However, my obedience to it does not add anything to the justification or righteousness.
                      You have a proper perspective pertaining to salvation and Torah - your obedience to Torah flows out of your relationship with Elohim (by grace through faith) and that runs contrary to legalism.

                      Though many who disregard Torah would wrongly label you a legalist.

                      Was Messiah a legalist?
                      He ascribed to Torah out of His relationship to The Father - and we are to be like Messiah.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Rufus

                        I must have doen a bible search using an incorrect translation. I see it now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                          I think legalism is an attitude. When a man thinks he is better than everyone else simply because he keeps the rules, he is a legalist.

                          Jesus told a parable in which he compared two men who went to the temple to pray. Read that parable and decide which one is the legalist.

                          I agree that it is an attitude...... those 'legalists' I've come across over my years as a born Again Christian know their Bible very well. They quote scripture very easily.... Many stand in judgement of anything done by somebody else that was 'out' of their own man made rules... do's and don'ts... touch not taste not....etc.. These extra rules in their eyes added to the 'rigtheousness of God'... or so they thought...... which in reality... is blindness... The Righteousness of God is a GIFT.. cannot be earned and cannot be bought.. It was 'paid' in FULL at Calvary on that bloody Tree by the Perfect Lamb..... and is distributed by God the Father ... Himself.. as a GIFT...

                          Not only is it an 'attitude'... but is a condition of the Heart... Most 'legalists' I've come across have absolutely NO MERCY OR COMPASSION.. they substitute that with a condemning judgemental attitude and portray God as someobody who sits in Heaven with a lightning bolt ready to strike down upon His children when they make a mistake or stumble.... Look to the New Testament when Jesus Healed on the Sabbath... the Pharisees got mad at Him.... They had absolutley no compassion or mercy.. but were blind to their own error... Jesus spoke that their 'hearts were hardened'... and their ears were shut.....

                          Legalism kills.......... where Life in Jesus the Christ brings Eternal Life........ Joy, Liberty, Freedom, Mercy, Compassion, Discernment, etc....
                          Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                          ------------------------------------------------
                          Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                          ------------------------------------------------
                          The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                          Jeremiah 31:3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
                            I agree that it is an attitude...... those 'legalists' I've come across over my years as a born Again Christian know their Bible very well. They quote scripture very easily.... Many stand in judgement of anything done by somebody else that was 'out' of their own man made rules... do's and don'ts... touch not taste not....etc.. These extra rules in their eyes added to the 'rigtheousness of God'... or so they thought...... which in reality... is blindness... The Righteousness of God is a GIFT.. cannot be earned and cannot be bought.. It was 'paid' in FULL at Calvary on that bloody Tree by the Perfect Lamb..... and is distributed by God the Father ... Himself.. as a GIFT...

                            Not only is it an 'attitude'... but is a condition of the Heart... Most 'legalists' I've come across have absolutely NO MERCY OR COMPASSION.. they substitute that with a condemning judgemental attitude and portray God as someobody who sits in Heaven with a lightning bolt ready to strike down upon His children when they make a mistake or stumble.... Look to the New Testament when Jesus Healed on the Sabbath... the Pharisees got mad at Him.... They had absolutley no compassion or mercy.. but were blind to their own error... Jesus spoke that their 'hearts were hardened'... and their ears were shut.....

                            Legalism kills.......... where Life in Jesus the Christ brings Eternal Life........ Joy, Liberty, Freedom, Mercy, Compassion, Discernment, etc....
                            Hey now wait a minute.......slow down. Don't you know that downloading music from youtube, and then dancing to this music, is a threat to your very salvation?

                            Legalism is more saving then grace ever will be.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Got cha....lol.... and I'm probably using the wrong kind of toilet paper and tissue too...lol...confused now I'm so confused as to what to do and dont do ...... I'm acting like the County Agent on Green Acres... what was his name?????
                              Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                              ------------------------------------------------
                              Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                              ------------------------------------------------
                              The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                              Jeremiah 31:3

                              Comment

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