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God And The Jewish Religion??

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  • Discussion God And The Jewish Religion??

    There is absolutely no doubt that God loves Israel, yet according to the following God does not regard the Jews Religion, because it is not according to what he commanded.

    Knowing therefore that God does not regard the Jewish Religion, where do we stand if we try to be justified by that which is contained within it?

    Is 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

    Prov 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

    When Jesus came he confirmed the same;

    Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Whose counsel do we follow, is it God or mans?

    Firstfruits


  • #2
    God's problem wasn't with the law or the religion. After all, he commanded Israel to practice that religion. God's problem had to do with the hearts of the people, who apparently didn't care much for God.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by BroRog View Post
      God's problem wasn't with the law or the religion. After all, he commanded Israel to practice that religion. God's problem had to do with the hearts of the people, who apparently didn't care much for God.
      Jesus said that the Jewish religion was according to the commandments of men, which is what was being followed; Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

      What was being taught was not what God commanded. Jesus also said that by their teaching Gods commands had been made void; Mt 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

      They had without doubt added to and diminished Gods commandments. They were worshiping God but as Jesus said it was in vain.

      Firstfruits

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
        Jesus said that the Jewish religion was according to the commandments of men, which is what was being followed; Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

        What was being taught was not what God commanded. Jesus also said that by their teaching Gods commands had been made void; Mt 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

        They had without doubt added to and diminished Gods commandments. They were worshiping God but as Jesus said it was in vain.

        Firstfruits
        Yes, I see what you are saying now. I agree.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BroRog View Post
          Yes, I see what you are saying now. I agree.
          Thank you BroRog,

          So Knowing therefore that God does not regard the Jewish Religion because of what they taught, where do we stand if we try to be justified by that which is contained within it?

          Firstfruits

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
            Thank you BroRog,

            So Knowing therefore that God does not regard the Jewish Religion because of what they taught, where do we stand if we try to be justified by that which is contained within it?

            Firstfruits

            We stand like Wile E. Coyote in the face of gravity. beep beep

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BroRog View Post
              We stand like Wile E. Coyote in the face of gravity. beep beep
              Are we therefore also worshiping in vain as in Wile E Coyotes quest for the Road Runner?

              Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


              Firstfruits

              Comment


              • #8
                Jesus was decrying the rabbinical teachings that had been used as a guide to interpret and supplement the OT between the completion of the Hebrew Scriptures and his day. This is why he mentions the 'precepts of men.' He was not in any way downplaying the OT or Judaism in its purest form. The Sermon on the Mount, recorded in Matthew Chapters 5 to 7 is essentially a recapitulation of the giving of the OT Law to Israel by Moses in the book of Deuteronomy. Jesus, as the 'new Moses,' is retreiving the true meaning and application of the OT law that had been lost and undermined by extraneous rabbinical teaching that, while attempting to adhere to it in the strictest literal sense, consequently ignored or lost sight of the spirit behind it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by scourge39 View Post
                  Jesus was decrying the rabbinical teachings that had been used as a guide to interpret and supplement the OT between the completion of the Hebrew Scriptures and his day. This is why he mentions the 'precepts of men.' He was not in any way downplaying the OT or Judaism in its purest form. The Sermon on the Mount, recorded in Matthew Chapters 5 to 7 is essentially a recapitulation of the giving of the OT Law to Israel by Moses in the book of Deuteronomy. Jesus, as the 'new Moses,' is retreiving the true meaning and application of the OT law that had been lost and undermined by extraneous rabbinical teaching that, while attempting to adhere to it in the strictest literal sense, consequently ignored or lost sight of the spirit behind it.
                  Jesus was confirming what God had already said knowing that as it was when God first said it, the Jewish Religion was still the same.

                  Is 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

                  Prov 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

                  When Jesus came he confirmed the same;

                  Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

                  Firstfruits

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                    Are we therefore also worshiping in vain as in Wile E Coyotes quest for the Road Runner?

                    Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


                    Firstfruits
                    I don't know about us, but those whom Jesus mentioned were.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                      I don't know about us, but those whom Jesus mentioned were.
                      Remember this is in regards to the commandments of men that are taught as though they are Gods commands.

                      Is 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

                      If we keep those things that are taught in the Jewish religion with what both God and Jesus said, are we not in the same position as they?

                      Firstfruits

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                      • #12
                        so here's the question... where in our everyday lives are we doing according to tradition instead of the word of God...

                        the reality is I believe that this can be said of much of the church today... which is sadness
                        The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is a "spirit of the Law vs. letter of the Law" issue.

                          Don't forget that the disciples--and many others--were raised within the Jewish religion, but still were eventually saved.

                          If we live in the Spirit--which God has graciously suppled to us--we may fulfill the spirit of the Law.

                          If we believe fulfilling the letter of the Law will provide the Spirit, we are in error.
                          Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                            so here's the question... where in our everyday lives are we doing according to tradition instead of the word of God...

                            the reality is I believe that this can be said of much of the church today... which is sadness
                            Jesus showed them the difference between the commandments of men and the commandments of God and how their teaching, doctrine, precepts, ordinances made what God commanded of none effect. If we therefore teach doctrine which adds or diminshes the commandments of God as he gave it, then yes it is very sad, even though we may claim to be worshiping God.

                            Mt 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

                            Mt 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

                            Mt 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

                            Firstfruits

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SIG View Post
                              This is a "spirit of the Law vs. letter of the Law" issue.

                              Don't forget that the disciples--and many others--were raised within the Jewish religion, but still were eventually saved.

                              If we live in the Spirit--which God has graciously suppled to us--we may fulfill the spirit of the Law.

                              If we believe fulfilling the letter of the Law will provide the Spirit, we are in error.
                              According to God and Jesus they were not following the letter of the law as it was given by God; Is 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Prov 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

                              Whose counsel do we follow if as Jesus said, the Jewish religion is built on the commandments of men and those that follow it are worshiping God in vain?

                              Firstfruits

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