Do you believe in a literal HELL?

[BadDog]

Just wanted to take a poll regarding this controversial issue. Here are a few choices - I know that they won't encompass all that they should, but they'll give us some ideas:

Hell? Real or allegorical?

1) Yes. Hell is literal–a place where people suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire. (Dante's Inferno) The Literal View.

2) Yes. Hell is where unbelievers are exterminated. They do not suffer eternally, but cease to exist. The Annihilation View.

3) Yes. Hell is biblical but allegorical, not literal. It's simply the absence of God. This is also referred to as The Metaphorical View.

4) Yes. Hell is a place of punishment—but not for eternity. I believe ultimately all will be redeemed. (I am a Christian.) The Purgatorial View

5) No, I do not believe in hell at all. (I am a Christian)

6) No. I believe that all roads (religions) lead to heaven. There is no hell. (I am not a Christian.)



#1 is the traditional position on hell - that it is a place of eternal suffering as a judgment by a righteous God.

Assume that #4 above is a position held by conservative evangelical Christians in other areas of theology. They just do not believe that the Lake of Fire is eternal, and instead hold that all will eventually believe in Christ, or in some other way be saved. This is often referred to as Universal Redemption (or Reconciliation). There are a wide range of positions here, but the bottom line here is that they do not believe that hell is for eternity but for an age. It is also referred to as Christian Universalism. If you are not a Christian, then this is not your position.

If instead you believe that there are other paths to heaven (God) besides Christ, then select #6 above, rather than #4.

#3 and 5 above are similar. #5 is for those who do not believe in hell at all, while #3 is for those who hold to hell as a biblical concept, but one intended to be more allegorical. I know - close.

#2 is a position held by a growing number of evangelical theologians that says that one's existence is exterminated in the Lake of fire - you simply cease to exist. (FYI, this is NOT the traditional view on hell. The traditional view says that souls are eternal. It's just a matter of where you spend eternity.) IOW, you do not believe in suffering in hell for eternity if you hold this position. Other views of hell (whether allegorical or literal - except the UR position) in general see it as an eternal judgment of some sort.


Comments? BTW, this was not intended as a thread for bashing those who disagree with you, nor as a place for UR to plug their position. But we do want to know your thoughts on this sensitive topic. Let's get a feel for the range of beliefs regarding hell.

Oh, FWIW, I still hold to #1 above, as difficult as that may be to support at times. I recently read The Evangelical Universalist by Gregory MacDonald. Good book, but some of his arguments break down, IMO. For example, the problem of universal retribution breaks down due to his misunderstanding about eternity. Any mathematician would see through that argument, IMO. But it was a good read.

Thx,

BD

[Literalist-Luke]

Call me a conservative, fundamentalist, traditionalist then - # 1 is my vote. You should set this up as a "poll" thread in the Polls Forum.

[BadDog]

Call me a conservative, fundamentalist, traditionalist then - # 1 is my vote. You should set this up as a "poll" thread in the Polls Forum.

Lit-Luke,

Hi. Actually, it was set up in the polls forum. I was in the middle of listing the views and so I guess they had it temporarily listed somewhere else.

BTW, for what it's worth, your position is NOT the conservative fundamentalist traditionalist position... That is #1 - the view that unbelievers suffer for eternity in hell. The view that they cease to exist - are exterminated, believe it or not, is considered to be somewhat radical, and not evangelical! But who cares what they think, huh?

Oops - I assumed that you voted #2, since the only other vote, other than my own, was for #2. Yes, you did vote "conservative."

I believe that RC Sproul may have held the #2 position for a time. At the least he did write an article on it. It is an attempt to deal with the issue that some URs have that an eternal suffering must be an infinite amount of punishment, and hence is unwarranted since we do not commit an infinite amount of sin. The other argument is that eternal suffering does not seem to fit the character of God, and also the question is raised as to how one could enjoy eternity while being aware that a loved one is suffering at the same time.

Comments?

BD

[Frances]

I believe in hell - because Jesus did. I hope I never discover what it actually entails, apart from there being no love there.

[BadDog]

The 6 views listed

1) Yes. Hell is literal–a place where people suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire. (Dante's Inferno) The Literal View.

2) Yes. Hell is where unbelievers are exterminated. They do not suffer eternally, but cease to exist. The Annihilation View.

3) Yes. Hell is biblical but allegorical, not literal. It's simply the absence of God. The Metaphorical View.

4) Yes. Hell is a place of punishment—but not for eternity. I believe ultimately all will be redeemed. The Purgatorial View.

5) No, I do not believe in hell at all. (I am a Christian)

6) No. I believe that all roads (religions) lead to heaven. There is no hell. (I am not a Christian.)

FYI, views #1 - #4 are held by Christians, and all hold to some form of belief in hell. #5 is also held by some Christians - who do not believe in hell at all, allegorical or literal. #6 is a form of universal redemption which is non-Christian in nature, and should be distinguished from #4, which is held by believers - some of whom are very conservative. BTW, Augustine held the #4 view, and I think that Origin did not believe in a literal view of hell at all (#3 or #5).

I confess that I have been reading a book edited by Stanley Gundry and William Crockett - Four Views on Hell. It is one of those books designed so that you can read what a guru of a position says, and the other 3 comment on that position as well. I love those kinds of books. The first 4 options in this poll are from that book. I added 5 and 6 because some simply do not believe in hell... at all.

It is interesting that Crockett defends the metaphorical view, yet he is one of the editors of the book! It is also interesting that there often appears to be a strong reaction to #4 above, but not to #3, which IMO handles the Bible in a less literal fashion than does #4. I think it may be because #4 (Evangelical Universal Redemption) is often misunderstood as # 6 - that all roads lead to heaven.

BD

[BadDog]

Moderators - help?

I'm curious... as I understand it, our board does not permit those who hold to the #4 position above to "proselytize" in threads - the UR position. Does it also handle positions #2 and 3 above in a similar manner?

Thx, just curious.

BD

[BadDog]

I must add that referring to the UR #4 position as "The Purgatorial View" is probably not fair to it, since those who hold it are Protestants, not Catholics, as is Zachery Hayes - who defends that position in that chapter in the book I listed. But it is very close to what UR says, IMO. I hope I didn't offend any URs in our mix by doing so. I just didn't want to have too many positions, when #4 and UR are very close.

Edited-added: The UR position is typically different also in that it sees LL people as eventually being redeemed, while the Catholic position still sees many as perishing... they just see some believers as needing to go through purgatory. But the idea of a temporary holding place is similar to the UR position.

BD

[Literalist-Luke]

Lit-Luke,

Hi. Actually, it was set up in the polls forum. I was in the middle of listing the views and so I guess they had it temporarily listed somewhere else.

BTW, for what it's worth, your position is NOT the conservative fundamentalist traditionalist position... That is #1 - the view that unbelievers suffer for eternity in hell. The view that they cease to exist - are exterminated, believe it or not, is considered to be somewhat radical, and not evangelical! But who cares what they think, huh?

Um, I goi with eternal suffering, based on the plain wording to that effect in Revelation and in statements by Jesus that "their worm never dies".

Oops - I assumed that you voted #2, since the only other vote, other than my own, was for #2. Yes, you did vote "conservative."

That's right.

[Pleroo]

Comments?

Ahhh, yes. Comments I have. However, since comments in support of Christian Universalism have been, for all intents and purposes, banned on the open forums I'll be surprised to see too many of us represented here.

But, I'll joyfully chime in with a declaration of my belief in what the Bible teaches: that God is the Savior of all men, that just as in Adam all died, so also in Christ all will be made alive, and that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

As to the question of hell (hades), your opening post seems to equate it to the Lake of Fire which it cannot be since hades is cast into the Lake of Fire. Am I misunderstanding you, BD?

[daughter]

I can't vote on this one, because option one is spoiled by the assumption that the traditional biblical view of hell is that represented in Dante's Inferno. It isn't... The Divine Comedy was in part political allegory, and Dante himself didn't take it literally! But I do believe that hell is real, that to call seperation from God merely allegorical torture is underestimating the majesty and might of God... And if anything hell is worse than the flames we've heard of.

I believe yes, hell is real, it is eternal, it is a place of punishment, pain, and eternal seperation from God, and it's even worse than we can imagine. Given that we imagine it as a place of eternal burning, and it's too awful to describe... I'm glad I'm not going there, and I'm going to keep praying for others to be saved.

[holyrokker]

I would vote "None of the above"

I think hell is a "spiritual" location.

The suffering is spiritual, rather than physical. The body is dead, so there can't be any more physical suffering.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 says: "So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;....it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body"

[amazzin]

Anybody who doesn't agre with this:
Yes. Hell is literal–a place where people suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire.

They are headed there for a visit and they will burn for an eternity. It is a real palce not to be debated.

[BrckBrln]

Anybody who doesn't agre with this:
Yes. Hell is literal–a place where people suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire.

They are headed there for a visit and they will burn for an eternity. It is a real palce not to be debated.

So you're saying that people who believe in Annihilationism are going to hell?

[Jerry4America]

Anybody who doesn't agre with this:
Yes. Hell is literal–a place where people suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire.

They are headed there for a visit and they will burn for an eternity. It is a real palce not to be debated.

That does seem a tad bit harsh. I am dogmatic for #1 (not the Dante Inferno part), but I wouldn't say that people that believed in option 2 or 3 were going to Hell because of that.

[BadDog]

Ahhh, yes. Comments I have. However, since comments in support of Christian Universalism have been, for all intents and purposes, banned on the open forums I'll be surprised to see too many of us represented here.

But, I'll joyfully chime in with a declaration of my belief in what the Bible teaches: that God is the Savior of all men, that just as in Adam all died, so also in Christ all will be made alive, and that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

As to the question of hell (hades), your opening post seems to equate it to the Lake of Fire which it cannot be since hades is cast into the Lake of Fire. Am I misunderstanding you, BD?

No, you're correct. I know that "hell" is cast into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 21 or 22. But that's how most view it, and I didn't want to confuse more than I already was. But I did make clear in my opening post that what is in view IS the Lake of Fire... that is where people will suffer for eternity - not hell (or Hades or Ghenna).

I do not understand why Christian Universalism is banned here - didn't know that it was so strongly, and do not understand why, I must admit. I was just interested in what percentage of users here believe in what form of hell, if at all. Annihilation used to be considered almost heresy, yet more and more evangelical theologians are heading down that route as well.

I have researched this some, and must say that it is a confusing issue. I have sympathy for those who take position #2 or #4. I think that if more Christians researched this, rather than just accepted what they've been taught, this would be more widely split than it apparently is these days. Witness our poll... only one for #2, and 11 for #1. Yeah, I also hold to #1, but I have read two books on it carefully. I also know some Greek and studied the Greek regarding AIWN and AIWNOS and various complex singular and plural versions of those terms. I think the Greek does leave the door open, but I still see AIWNOS as referencing eternity - in general, though not exclusively. Complex forms of AIWN often refer to eternity in general as well, though not always.

But there are some good logical and philosophical questions raised by # 2 and # 4 above. I do not want to turn this thread into a debate on UR or annihilation though. But please, do vote. There should be no problem with that.

BD