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  • Need Advice: Born Again/Baptized

    Hello, I need a little light shined upon an issue. I suppose born again can mean several things. Do we need to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God? These scriptures confuse me a little.
    John:3
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Thanks,
    Believeth In The Lord.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
    Hello, I need a little light shined upon an issue. I suppose born again can mean several things. Do we need to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God? These scriptures confuse me a little.
    John:3
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Thanks,
    Believeth In The Lord.
    the confusion you have is in the word itself.

    John 3: 16 is a promise, not based on being immersed in water. but based on faith in Christ.

    Jesus said all who eblieve will be baptised by the holy spirit. this is the spiritual baptism that saves us.

    Water baptism is symbolic of this spiritual event. and should be done. but ones salvation or lack of has nothing to do with water baptism.
    not perfect, Just forgiven

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bryan43 View Post
      the confusion you have is in the word itself.

      John 3: 16 is a promise, not based on being immersed in water. but based on faith in Christ.

      Jesus said all who eblieve will be baptised by the holy spirit. this is the spiritual baptism that saves us.

      Water baptism is symbolic of this spiritual event. and should be done. but ones salvation or lack of has nothing to do with water baptism.
      Thank you Bryan43. I was just reading a closed thread on Baptism save us or not.
      I know my faith is strong, as I write this my eyes are tearing. I believe in Jesus Christ and he is my savior. My family believes in the need for baptism. I tell them it seems like
      a man or a woman immersing me in water is more of a symbolism. The Grace of God is in my heart now! I'm I wrong?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
        Thank you Bryan43. I was just reading a closed thread on Baptism save us or not.
        I know my faith is strong, as I write this my eyes are tearing. I believe in Jesus Christ and he is my savior. My family believes in the need for baptism. I tell them it seems like
        a man or a woman immersing me in water is more of a symbolism. The Grace of God is in my heart now! I'm I wrong?
        your perfectly right. And if your saved. God already baptised you, and after which he sealed you into his body.

        Now make sure you do the symbol also. God commanded it. Like he commanded communion and many other things.
        not perfect, Just forgiven

        Comment


        • #5
          Fabulous answers Bryan43!

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Guys. Bryan43 is there a scripture that you could refer me to, were you wrote.
            Jesus said all who eblieve will be baptised by the holy spirit. this is the spiritual baptism that saves us

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
              Thanks Guys. Bryan43 is there a scripture that you could refer me to, were you wrote.
              Jesus said all who eblieve will be baptised by the holy spirit. this is the spiritual baptism that saves us
              a few..

              Matt 3:11-12 I (John the Baptist) indeed baptise with water unto (because of) repentance. Be he (christ) Who is comming after me is mightier than I , whose sandal straps I am not worth to lose. He will BAPTIZE with the holy spirit and with Fire. His winowing fan is in his hands, and he will thoroughly clean out his threshing floor. and gather the wheat into the barn. But he will burn up the chaff with unquentiable Fire"

              Acts 1 :5 For you were truely baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the holy spirit not many days from now

              Acts 10: 44 - 48 ?? While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
              Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

              along with for perspective;

              Acts 11: 15- 17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God??

              1 Cor 12: 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— vwhether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.

              Please note it is the act of the holy spirit doing the baptizing. and the thing we are baptized into is the body

              col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

              Please not it is the working of God. Who raised Christ from the dead that we are baptised. This can only be the holy spirit. this is the circumcizion, or baptism ( cleansing ) done without the hands of man, but by the hands of God.

              Rom 6 : 3 Or do you not know that as many of us that were baptized into christ jesus were baptized into his death, therefore were were buried with him in baptism unto death that just as christ was raised by the father, even so we should walk in newness of life..For we have been united together in his likeness of his death certainly we shall also be united in the likeness of his ressurection

              Again this is Holy Spirit, not water baptism. the death and burial are the things we are baptised in. not water.

              also note. Unted with him in death is another term defined by baptism. this can be seen in another verse.

              1 Cor 10: 2 - 4 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ

              This is God placing all the children of isreal into vital union with moses. No water baptism is involved here. it was the coud and the sea they were untied in. the miracles done by Christ. the parting of the sea, and the cloud that they followed.

              hope this helps
              not perfect, Just forgiven

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks again, I see the light.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
                  I suppose born again can mean several things.
                  Thats like saying stop on red lights can mean several things. When a light turns red can it mean slow down as you cruise through the intersection? When the light turns red can it mean Go? A red light means stop.

                  Born again cannot mean several things. It can't mean baptism and birth at the same time. It is either baptism or birth, not both. If Jesus meant baptism, He would have said baptism. However since He said born again, he meant birth. Baptism is not birth.
                  If the Calvinistic Westminister Confession is true (that "God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"), then God ordained my disbelief of Calvinism.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
                    Hello, I need a little light shined upon an issue. I suppose born again can mean several things. Do we need to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God? These scriptures confuse me a little.
                    John:3
                    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                    Thanks,
                    Believeth In The Lord.
                    Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5 (KJV)
                    Good question – in John 3 Jesus told Nicodemus, the Jewish “doctor of the law” that the time would shortly come when those who desired to enter the “kingdom of God” would need to be born again – born of “water and the Spirit”. The “new birth” spoken of by Jesus is *one birth* that consists of two elements - “water and Spirit”. This “birth from above” includes the outward administration of immersion in water (a burial) where the believer is “baptized into His death" (Rom 6;3-5) and this ordinance of baptism is combined with the *cleansing of the heart* that is a direct operation of the Holy Spirit as the believer is immersed in water. The "old man" of sin goes into the water a sinner but he arises out of the water a "new creature" in Christ Jesus (born again) - cleansed by the blood of Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit. The ordinance of Christian baptism is (and always has been) the means of entrance into “the kingdom of God” as the believer is “baptized into Christ Jesus” - baptized into the body of Christ. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death" Romans 6:3. To answer your question – yes, one must be immersed in water to “enter the kingdom of God.”
                    John 3:5 of water and of the Spirit — A twofold explanation of the “new birth,” so startling to Nicodemus. To a Jewish ecclesiastic, so familiar with the symbolical application of water, in every variety of way and form of expression, this language was fitted to show that the thing intended was no other than a thorough spiritual purification by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, element of water and operation of the Spirit are brought together in a glorious evangelical prediction of Ezekiel (Eze_36:25-27), which Nicodemus might have been reminded of had such spiritualities not been almost lost in the reigning formalism. Already had the symbol of water been embodied in an initiatory ordinance, in the baptism of the Jewish expectants of Messiah by the Baptist, not to speak of the baptism of Gentile proselytes before that; and in the Christian Church it was soon to become the great visible door of entrance into “the kingdom of God,” the reality being the sole work of the Holy Ghost (Tit_3:5). ~ A Commentary on the Old and New Testaments by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ridin Red, were you referring to baptism of the Spirit or baptism by water?
                      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                      Not second or third, but first.
                      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                      when He is the source of all hope,
                      when His love is received and freely given,
                      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                      will all other things be added unto to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ridin Red View Post
                        Hello, I need a little light shined upon an issue. I suppose born again can mean several things. Do we need to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God? These scriptures confuse me a little.
                        John:3
                        15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                        16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                        Thanks,
                        Believeth In The Lord.
                        NO, you do NOT need to be baptized to be saved. As someone who fell into this dangerous teaching not too long after being saved, I am very passionate about refuting it.
                        USSA-The United Socialist States of America

                        Without Jesus, eternity is a living Hell, literally.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why be baptised?
                          Why not?

                          Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
                          Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
                          C. S. Lewis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MidnightsPaleGlow View Post
                            NO, you do NOT need to be baptized to be saved. As someone who fell into this dangerous teaching not too long after being saved, I am very passionate about refuting it.
                            But the OP asks the simple question – “Do we need to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God?” The biblical answer is yes per Jesus Christ – “ Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”. This is straightforward and hard to miss.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                              Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5 (KJV)
                              Good question – in John 3 Jesus told Nicodemus, the Jewish “doctor of the law” that the time would shortly come when those who desired to enter the “kingdom of God” would need to be born again – born of “water and the Spirit”. The “new birth” spoken of by Jesus is *one birth* that consists of two elements - “water and Spirit”
                              .

                              NO NO NO NO NO, NO! To see that the water in John 3:5 is NOT baptism, we have to examine the entire passage in detail, John 3:1-7 KJV:

                              There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
                              Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
                              Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
                              Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
                              That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
                              Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

                              Nicodemus came to Jesus and acknowledged that he was who he was (the Son of God), and that's when Jesus spoke to him about being "born again." Nicodemus was confused by this and asked how he could be born a second time when he was already an old man. And that's when Jesus said, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The "water gospel" teachers love to interpret this as meaning baptism, but if you go verses 6-7, in verse 6, Jesus says That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and how are we born of the flesh? By the water of our mother's womb, so Nicodemus could not do this again. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. This is our regeneration by the Holy Spirit that places us inside the body of Christ and is a supernatural act performed by God. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Basically, Jesus was saying that two births are necessary to enter into the kingdom of Heaven, our natural birth in the womb by water, plus a spiritual regeneration accomplished entirely by God.

                              This “birth from above” includes the outward administration of immersion in water (a burial) where the believer is “baptized into His death" (Rom 6;3-5) and this ordinance of baptism is combined with the *cleansing of the heart* that is a direct operation of the Holy Spirit as the believer is immersed in water. The "old man" of sin goes into the water a sinner but he arises out of the water a "new creature" in Christ Jesus (born again) - cleansed by the blood of Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit. The ordinance of Christian baptism is (and always has been) the means of entrance into “the kingdom of God” as the believer is “baptized into Christ Jesus” - baptized into the body of Christ. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death" Romans 6:3. To answer your question – yes, one must be immersed in water to “enter the kingdom of God.”
                              When we are "baptized into his death," you need to see that there is FIGURATIVE language being used in that passage, let's open that old KJV to Romans Ch. 6, verses 3-6:

                              Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
                              For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
                              Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

                              In verses 4-5 we see simile being used (comparison using "like" or "as"). Like/likeness occurs a total of three times, illustrating that the baptism symbolizes our death/burial to sin and our resurrection to a new life. It is a beautiful, SYMBOLIC act of obedience with no saving merit that identifies the believer with his Savior, and it is commanded of all who believe. As for verse 6, let's jump ahead to Galatians 2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


                              In Gal. 2:20, Paul was talking about how he was united to his Lord and Savior by faith and nothing else.

                              This "water gospel," commonly known as "baptismal regeneration" is a Galatianistic gospel that is accursed by God (Gal. 1:8-9). As somebody who got misled by it early on in my Christian walk after initially accepting Christ through the TRUE gospel of salvation by GRACE ALONE, through FAITH ALONE, in CHRIST ALONE, I feel it my duty to oppose this false gospel that cannot save.
                              USSA-The United Socialist States of America

                              Without Jesus, eternity is a living Hell, literally.

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