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  • Do You Have To Confess A Sin Before It Can Be Forgiven? Can I get UR thoughts please.

    I read this article recently and it has bothered me in certain respects. I would love to hear your thoughts on this conclusions drawn about confession/repentance in this article that I found here http://www.charismaministries.org/do...n-be-forgiven/



    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (NKJV)
    1. When you fellowship with God, do you confess your sins to Him and ask for His forgiveness?
    2. Do you do it every time you pray?
    3. Do you feel guilty if you donít confess and seek forgiveness?
    4. Do you think you have to do this every day?
    5. Do you make a list of every single sin you committed in a day and ask forgiveness for each one or is it a more general confessing and asking?
    6. How do you do it? Do you acknowledge what you did wrong, say sorry, ask forgiveness and then feel that God is happy with you again?
    7. Why? Were you taught to do it?
    8. If so, did you check to see if what you were taught was true or did you just swallow it hook line and sinker?
    9. Is confession and asking forgiveness your idea of repentance?

    Did you answer Ďyesí to a few of these questions? If you did, you really need to read the further and answer a few more questions for your own benefit.


    Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin. (NKJV)
    Wouldnít it be awesome if God didnít impute our sin to us? We wouldnít need to confess or ask forgiveness anymore if God stopped holding our sins against us. We would be blessed for sure as this verse says. But God is a just and righteous judge, so it is wouldnít be possible for Him to not count our sins against us, right? Wrong!


    2 Cor 5:19 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, (NKJV)
    It seems like God isnít imputing our sins to us if we are in Christ. Now if He is not holding our sins against us, are we blessed as Romans 4:8 says? Of course. So what sins do you need to confess if God is not charging you with any of them?


    Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (NKJV)
    So Jesus is the end of the law of righteousness, the end of the measure of right standing before God based on a personís moral performance, a personís ability to keep the law. If He ended the law, meaning it is not applicable any longer, why should I keep measuring myself according to it? Easy, I shouldnít and I donít.


    Rom 4:15 the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. (NKJV)


    Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law (NKJV)
    Many people believe when we sin we deserve Godís wrath because we broke His laws. But sin is only sin if there is a measure that defines what it is. That measure was the law and it has come to an end. Where there is no law, no transgressions are counted against us. If no transgressions are imputed, there is no need to confess them since there arenít any to confess. If there arenít any sins held against us that we need to confess, we also donít need to worry about Godís wrath. There is only wrath when transgressions are counted. If no sin is counted against you, you also do not need to ask forgiveness. But how can all this be? How can God just end the law and not count peopleís sins against them any longer?


    2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (NKJV)
    Jesus was made into sin for you. God counted every single wretched vile sin of every single person throughout time and history against Jesus. All the wicked rebellious sin of the entre world was tied together in one person in one place at one time and that gave God the opportunity to punish all sin in one go. All the wrath God had against all the sin of the entire human race, was poured out completely on Jesus and He was put to death.


    Heb 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, (NKJV)
    One sacrifice paid for all sins FOREVER. So if it is paid for, it is dealt with. How many of your sins were included in sins Jesus died for? All of them? If you said yes, then donít you think God knew every sin you would ever commit and remembered to count all of them against Jesus? If He already counted your sin against Jesus and poured out His wrath, then He doesnít need to do the same thing for you. If He counts your sin against you and Jesus, then Jesus died for nothing. Since He doesnít count them against us, stop trying to count them against yourself by confessing them to God.


    At the point of salvation, we merely accepted and believed that Christ took our punishment already. When we believed that, we were reborn and created as new beings. We were made the righteousness of God in Christ. All our unrighteousness was taken away and we now have the same right standing before God as Jesus has. How can that be? Because when Jesus became sin for us, the righteousness He had from perfectly keeping the law, was given as a free gift to all mankind.

    Rom 5:18-19 Therefore, as through one manís offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Manís righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one manís disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Manís obedience many will be made righteous. (NKJV)
    In light of this, let us look again at 1 John 1:9.


    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (NKJV)


    Have you been cleansed from all unrighteousness? Yes. So if you have been cleansed, does that mean you have been forgiven? Logically, yes. If you were forgiven, when did you confess your sins? The day you said, ďJesus, I canít do this. I trust You to save me.Ē That was your confession. Now that you know God doesnít count your sins against you anymore, you can also stop counting them. God did His job perfectly. Just trust Him.


    But what about sinning again after salvation? That doesnít change the fact that ALL your sins were forgiven already. You donít need to confess ďnewĒ sins. When you do, all you are saying is that God apparently forgot to count those ones against Jesus. Since Jesus isnít going to die again, you have a problem if God messed up and forgot to count even one of your sins against Jesus. Rest assured that God didnít mess up. He forgave ALL your sin, even the ones you are going to commit tomorrow. Does that mean I can just go out and sin? Technically yes, but just remember that Jesus removed the punishment, the eternal separation sin brought between us and God. He didnít remove the consequence of sin. If I cheat on my wife, the consequence is that my marriage is over. If I steal or murder, the consequence is that I go to jail and become an outcast from society. Does that mean God is punishing me? No. It means I sowed destruction in my own life. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven but he still stayed and died on his cross. Jesusí sacrifice didnít make you immune against consequence, it made you immune from ever falling out of right standing before God.


    Thatís enough for now. I have already given you enough reasons to go thank God for being so awesome!


    Glory to Glory!
    Cornel Marais

  • #2
    [QUOTE=windwords7;2357317] I read this article recently and it has bothered me in certain respects. I would love to hear your thoughts on this conclusions drawn about ]
    [B][*]When you fellowship with God, do you confess your sins to Him and ask for His forgiveness? Yes, I repent..
    [*]Do you do it every time you pray? No.
    [*]Do you feel guilty if you don’t confess and seek forgiveness? Yes, because I am guilty.
    [*]Do you think you have to do this every day? Every time I commit a Sin.
    [*]Do you make a list of every single sin you committed in a day and ask forgiveness for each one or is it a more general confessing and asking? I repent as soon as I realise I have Sinned, theoreteically many times in one day.
    [*]How do you do it? Do you acknowledge what you did wrong, say sorry, ask forgiveness and then feel that God is happy with you again?I repent. In other words I determine not to grieve the Lord by repeating what is offensive to Him.
    [*]Why? Were you taught to do it?Yes, i also read the Word of God and find there the necesity to determine to live to please God. eg. 1 John 1:7 "IF we walk in the Light as He is in the Light we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Christ His Son cleanses us from all Sin" (happily sinning is not walking in the Light).
    [*]If so, did you check to see if what you were taught was true or did you just swallow it hook line and sinker? I follow the Beeran principle of checking the whole counsel of God.
    [*]Is confession and asking forgiveness your idea of repentance?No. Repentance is determining not to repeat the offense.[/LIST]
    Acts 26:20 'repent, turn to God and do works befitting repentance.'

    Rev.2:16 (Jesus said) "Repent , or else I will come to you quickly and will fight you with the sword of my mouth."


    I suggest you take no notice of those who water down the requirementa of Sonship, following them could very well have painful consequences one day, living to please the Lord, and repenting when you fail Him, can never be wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by windwords7 View Post
      But what about sinning again after salvation? That doesn’t change the fact that ALL your sins were forgiven already. You don’t need to confess “new” sins. When you do, all you are saying is that God apparently forgot to count those ones against Jesus. Since Jesus isn’t going to die again, you have a problem if God messed up and forgot to count even one of your sins against Jesus. Rest assured that God didn’t mess up. He forgave ALL your sin, even the ones you are going to commit tomorrow. Does that mean I can just go out and sin? Technically yes, but just remember that Jesus removed the punishment, the eternal separation sin brought between us and God. He didn’t remove the consequence of sin. If I cheat on my wife, the consequence is that my marriage is over. If I steal or murder, the consequence is that I go to jail and become an outcast from society. Does that mean God is punishing me? No. It means I sowed destruction in my own life. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven but he still stayed and died on his cross. Jesus’ sacrifice didn’t make you immune against consequence, it made you immune from ever falling out of right standing before God.
      I'm no expert, but I'd imagine "right standing before God" includes a recognition of the damage of sin, and being penitent, even for fresh sins.

      Comment


      • #4
        I do not concur with his conclusions on certain points. I feel very strongly that repentance is an ongoing reality in the life of Christians. Theologically the position is something I've never quite read as he stated it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, if Christ died for the sins of the world and one becomes a Christian and then has a relationship (is saved) with Christ, how many sins of yours have already been forgiven?
          I have a Blog. Please visit!

          My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

          Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

          Comment


          • #6
            I haven't read through the thread but my thoughts are as follows -

            ALL of your sins were forgiven at the cross. Your relationship hindered by unconfessed sin. The only way a child of God can be truly happy is to be walking, moment by moment in a good relationship with the Lord.
            I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
            - Mahatma Gandhi



            Comment


            • #7
              I would sum it up by saying the sin which we need repenting of us our lack of faith in Jesus. All our sin stems from that ONE. Here is an example

              And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
              (Mar 9:24)
              That's true repentance.
              ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by windwords7 View Post
                I read this article recently and it has bothered me in certain respects. I would love to hear your thoughts on this conclusions drawn about confession/repentance in this article that I found here http://www.charismaministries.org/do...n-be-forgiven/



                1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (NKJV)
                1. When you fellowship with God, do you confess your sins to Him and ask for His forgiveness?
                2. Do you do it every time you pray?
                3. Do you feel guilty if you donít confess and seek forgiveness?
                4. Do you think you have to do this every day?
                5. Do you make a list of every single sin you committed in a day and ask forgiveness for each one or is it a more general confessing and asking?
                6. How do you do it? Do you acknowledge what you did wrong, say sorry, ask forgiveness and then feel that God is happy with you again?
                7. Why? Were you taught to do it?
                8. If so, did you check to see if what you were taught was true or did you just swallow it hook line and sinker?
                9. Is confession and asking forgiveness your idea of repentance?

                Did you answer Ďyesí to a few of these questions? If you did, you really need to read the further and answer a few more questions for your own benefit.


                Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin. (NKJV)
                Wouldnít it be awesome if God didnít impute our sin to us? We wouldnít need to confess or ask forgiveness anymore if God stopped holding our sins against us. We would be blessed for sure as this verse says. But God is a just and righteous judge, so it is wouldnít be possible for Him to not count our sins against us, right? Wrong!


                2 Cor 5:19 that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, (NKJV)
                It seems like God isnít imputing our sins to us if we are in Christ. Now if He is not holding our sins against us, are we blessed as Romans 4:8 says? Of course. So what sins do you need to confess if God is not charging you with any of them?


                Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (NKJV)
                So Jesus is the end of the law of righteousness, the end of the measure of right standing before God based on a personís moral performance, a personís ability to keep the law. If He ended the law, meaning it is not applicable any longer, why should I keep measuring myself according to it? Easy, I shouldnít and I donít.


                Rom 4:15 the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. (NKJV)


                Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law (NKJV)
                Many people believe when we sin we deserve Godís wrath because we broke His laws. But sin is only sin if there is a measure that defines what it is. That measure was the law and it has come to an end. Where there is no law, no transgressions are counted against us. If no transgressions are imputed, there is no need to confess them since there arenít any to confess. If there arenít any sins held against us that we need to confess, we also donít need to worry about Godís wrath. There is only wrath when transgressions are counted. If no sin is counted against you, you also do not need to ask forgiveness. But how can all this be? How can God just end the law and not count peopleís sins against them any longer?


                2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (NKJV)
                Jesus was made into sin for you. God counted every single wretched vile sin of every single person throughout time and history against Jesus. All the wicked rebellious sin of the entre world was tied together in one person in one place at one time and that gave God the opportunity to punish all sin in one go. All the wrath God had against all the sin of the entire human race, was poured out completely on Jesus and He was put to death.


                Heb 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, (NKJV)
                One sacrifice paid for all sins FOREVER. So if it is paid for, it is dealt with. How many of your sins were included in sins Jesus died for? All of them? If you said yes, then donít you think God knew every sin you would ever commit and remembered to count all of them against Jesus? If He already counted your sin against Jesus and poured out His wrath, then He doesnít need to do the same thing for you. If He counts your sin against you and Jesus, then Jesus died for nothing. Since He doesnít count them against us, stop trying to count them against yourself by confessing them to God.


                At the point of salvation, we merely accepted and believed that Christ took our punishment already. When we believed that, we were reborn and created as new beings. We were made the righteousness of God in Christ. All our unrighteousness was taken away and we now have the same right standing before God as Jesus has. How can that be? Because when Jesus became sin for us, the righteousness He had from perfectly keeping the law, was given as a free gift to all mankind.

                Rom 5:18-19 Therefore, as through one manís offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Manís righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one manís disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Manís obedience many will be made righteous. (NKJV)
                In light of this, let us look again at 1 John 1:9.


                1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (NKJV)


                Have you been cleansed from all unrighteousness? Yes. So if you have been cleansed, does that mean you have been forgiven? Logically, yes. If you were forgiven, when did you confess your sins? The day you said, ďJesus, I canít do this. I trust You to save me.Ē That was your confession. Now that you know God doesnít count your sins against you anymore, you can also stop counting them. God did His job perfectly. Just trust Him.


                But what about sinning again after salvation? That doesnít change the fact that ALL your sins were forgiven already. You donít need to confess ďnewĒ sins. When you do, all you are saying is that God apparently forgot to count those ones against Jesus. Since Jesus isnít going to die again, you have a problem if God messed up and forgot to count even one of your sins against Jesus. Rest assured that God didnít mess up. He forgave ALL your sin, even the ones you are going to commit tomorrow. Does that mean I can just go out and sin? Technically yes, but just remember that Jesus removed the punishment, the eternal separation sin brought between us and God. He didnít remove the consequence of sin. If I cheat on my wife, the consequence is that my marriage is over. If I steal or murder, the consequence is that I go to jail and become an outcast from society. Does that mean God is punishing me? No. It means I sowed destruction in my own life. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven but he still stayed and died on his cross. Jesusí sacrifice didnít make you immune against consequence, it made you immune from ever falling out of right standing before God.


                Thatís enough for now. I have already given you enough reasons to go thank God for being so awesome!


                Glory to Glory!
                Cornel Marais

                My friend,

                I have read that article and it is fraught with enough error to write a few posts. The logic flawed. It is simply an idea based on Scripture taken out of context.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey,,,I can't read any post that long at the moment...my eyes will bleed.

                  But...if you are saying that God will forgive sins that we don't know we have...

                  You would be correct in that.

                  Job didn't sin...
                  He was a righteous man and God prospered him because he followed the Law...nor did he allow sin in his house.

                  But...when he got a vision of God's sinlessness/goodness...he despised himself for all he was...(before he got his troubles)

                  So...I am going to agree with that notion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The issue isn't God's willingness to forgive. The issue is our willingness to repent, and forsake the sin. God's hand remains extended. It's up to us to take it and receive forgiveness and be cleansed from unrighteousness.

                    I can forgive a person who has sinned against me without them asking for it. But they're going to continue being stuck in their sin until they repent. And the cleansing only happens after the asking for forgiveness and the willingness to go and sin no more.

                    On the other hand, I can choose to not forgive, yet that person can turn to God and find cleansing after they ask His forgiveness and are willing to repent and forsake that sin.

                    So you see that forgiveness is only one aspect. The cleansing from unrighteousness is mentioned in the same sentence and only happens after repentance. Yet we like to get hung up on the first part of the sentence and don't often mention the other, which is where people get confused.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just skimmed it. I'll read it tomorrow (out of time). If it is just saying believers in a relationship with God do not have to confess their sin, it is correct. What bothered you specifically?
                      1Jo 1:9 clearly says if we confess/ he will forgive.
                      So no one can say we are forgiven all sin!!! It says we are not! Right?
                      Wrong!
                      If we say we are forgiven all sin then 1Jo 1:9 cannot mean continue to confess after becoming a believer. This is correct.
                      Other wise
                      If we say we are not forgiven all sin then 1Jo 1:9 means we must continue to confess after becoming a believer. This is incorrect.

                      "If we" in 1Jo 1 is Greek Third Class Condition.
                      1John is a contrast themed book written for the purpose of informing a seduced church how they can know who is saved and who is not.
                      1Jn 1:8, 10 is one that did not bow at the cross.
                      1Jn 1:7, 9 is one that did.

                      It seems I got started and couldn't stop.....oh well

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        still going (worked 15 hours and have another 15 tomorrow -good night)

                        Greek Third Class Condition
                        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&a...i=&safe=images

                        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&aqi=&aql=&oq=

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sirus View Post
                          I just skimmed it. I'll read it tomorrow (out of time). If it is just saying believers in a relationship with God do not have to confess their sin, it is correct. What bothered you specifically?
                          1Jo 1:9 clearly says if we confess/ he will forgive.
                          So no one can say we are forgiven all sin!!! It says we are not! Right?
                          Wrong!
                          If we say we are forgiven all sin then 1Jo 1:9 cannot mean continue to confess after becoming a believer. This is correct.
                          Other wise
                          If we say we are not forgiven all sin then 1Jo 1:9 means we must continue to confess after becoming a believer. This is incorrect.

                          "If we" in 1Jo 1 is Greek Third Class Condition.
                          1John is a contrast themed book written for the purpose of informing a seduced church how they can know who is saved and who is not.
                          1Jn 1:8, 10 is one that did not bow at the cross.
                          1Jn 1:7, 9 is one that did.

                          It seems I got started and couldn't stop.....oh well
                          I've always heard that if our sin has been forgiven at the Cross and no longer held against us, then what sin is there left to confess since God has already forgiven us? People say "don't ask God to forgive but thank Him that He already did. Speaking about 1 John we notice even in the first chapter that the book is about fellowship. And I think what goes along with that is like when Jesus said that people who had a bath only needed their feet washed for they were already clean. Jesus is clear that He is the One who has made people clean.
                          But in daily life, our feet get dirty. Perhaps clean people confess their sin to get their feet washed!
                          People say we should confess in order to be restored to fellowship as one would in a human relationship, but even then I have to ask, If there is only remission of sin through shed blood then does Christ have to shed His blood every time I sin? I think not.
                          I have a Blog. Please visit!

                          My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                          Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
                            I've always heard that if our sin has been forgiven at the Cross and no longer held against us, then what sin is there left to confess since God has already forgiven us? People say "don't ask God to forgive but thank Him that He already did. Speaking about 1 John we notice even in the first chapter that the book is about fellowship. And I think what goes along with that is like when Jesus said that people who had a bath only needed their feet washed for they were already clean. Jesus is clear that He is the One who has made people clean.
                            But in daily life, our feet get dirty. Perhaps clean people confess their sin to get their feet washed!
                            People say we should confess in order to be restored to fellowship as one would in a human relationship, but even then I have to ask, If there is only remission of sin through shed blood then does Christ have to shed His blood every time I sin? I think not.
                            H MHD,

                            One who is in relationship with God should confess sins. That is why John says if we confess our sins. Every sin that you will commit in the future has not been pre-forgiven. The cross made the way of forgiveness possible it did not make automatic application of forgiveness. Both Peter and Paul address the issue of forgiven sins and both say that at baptism one is forgiven of their "Old" sins. It is past sins that are forgiven not future. Future sins are dealt with as the happen.


                            2 Peter 1:9 ( KJV )
                            But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


                            Romans 3:24-25 ( KJV )
                            Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
                            Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
                            through the forbearance of God;

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I guess what troubles me the most is the idea that finished work of the Cross some how negates our part in truly caring about when and how we are transgressing. I see repentance as a life long endeavor, like an onion that is being peeled back layer by layer, and I believe we have a false idea of grace running rampant in much of the Church.

                              Grace does give us confidence, but it is critical that it is confidence after we repent. If we have confidence before we repent, it is a false teaching on grace. This kind of message minimizes the work of Christ. He loves us in our weakness while we are sincerely seeking to obey Him. We do really need to emphasize the reality of each of us having confidence before God, because that is a vast and weighty subject, and a very important one. But we do not want to be confident before God in a false way.

                              So much of what I hear today seeks to make Grace something which makes us comfortable while we are sinning. "Grace is that which God gives us, that when we sin, the grace of God convinces us to repent of it, and it does give us confidence to have a new beginning right now—today, this minute—and we can be first-class citizens in His kingdom that very hour. So grace does give us confidence, but it is critical that it is confidence after we repent. If we have confidence before we repent, it is a false teaching on grace. "

                              Any grace message that makes you comfortable with God while continuing in your sin is false. This distortion empowers compromise and passivity while giving us confidence that God is smiling at us. Repentance and forgiveness go hand in hand. God smiles at us but He hates our sin. He paid an incredible price to deal with that sin.

                              I have come to believe that I had/have become incredibly deceived on this issue using grace and the finished work of the Cross as an excuse for sin and lazy living. The last several weeks have been like waking up from a long sleep where this deception clouded everything.

                              Comment

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