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  • Human rights

    I am having an interesting discussion with another member of bibleforums on human rights. I have several questions I would like to throw out there for discussion.

    1. What is the accepted definition in society today for a right?

    2. What do you think is the scriptural definition for a right? As a follow up question, do we have scriptural rights?

    3. Assuming we have rights, what is the scriptural response when someone treads on those rights?

    4. If we have rights, how should that impact our reaction to government intrusion to those rights? Or how should we respond in a democracy as individuals? I am not sure what I am trying to ask with question 4 other than to get a response on what people think a christian response should be concerning rights when it comes to government, voting, protest, etc.

    Is the following scripture applicable for this discussion?

    Phil 2:1-11

    2 If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    NASB
    Last edited by Brother Mark; Mar 10th 2010, 05:08 PM.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  • #2
    An interesting topic.

    Are we attempting to make a distinction between a God-given right or secular rights granted from the societies we are part of?

    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
    1. What is the excepted definition in society today for a right?
    I presume you mean accepted definition .



    I think Jesus showed that we really have no claims to any rights. He certainly made no claims to any rights. Granted there weren’t many under Roman rule, but based on the audience with Pilate he was afforded the opportunity to speak and defend himself but refused.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by teddyv View Post
      An interesting topic.

      Are we attempting to make a distinction between a God-given right or secular rights granted from the societies we are part of?
      If there is a distinction, then yes. (I think there might be one.)

      I presume you mean accepted definition .
      You would presume correctly. Funny how that typing thing works. Thanks for the notice. I'll change it in the original post.

      I think Jesus showed that we really have no claims to any rights. He certainly made no claims to any rights. Granted there weren’t many under Roman rule, but based on the audience with Pilate he was afforded the opportunity to speak and defend himself but refused.
      Is there not a difference between claiming a right and having one? That's part of the reason I started this thread to discuss that very point. Thanks for the input.
      Matt 9:13
      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
      NASU

      Comment


      • #4
        Christians have no "human rights" afforded to them in scriptures.

        We have...

        The right to be hated by all men.

        The right to be slaughtered.

        The right to deny ourselves.

        Etc., most of which are counter intuitive to modern concepts of "human rights".
        For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

        If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

        Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Urban Missionary View Post
          Christians have no "human rights" afforded to them in scriptures.

          We have...

          The right to be hated by all men.

          The right to be slaughtered.

          The right to deny ourselves.

          Etc., most of which are counter intuitive to modern concepts of "human rights".
          So when God says "Thou shalt not murder" he is not recognizing a right to life?

          Did Jesus have the right to make himself equal to God? But did he do so?

          I think we confuse at times the idea of "rights" from a western perspective, i.e. something that is owed to us that we can demand, with something God recognizes that all men should have even if we don't. Of course, God also requires that we lay them down too.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

          Comment


          • #6
            Rights? 1 Corintians 4, particularly 9-13, really spells it out for me. We give up our "rights" when we become servants.

            The rights we have here on earth given by men can be just as easily taken away by men...but remember, our citizenship is not here, but in a realm to come.
            θεοφιλε

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Theophilus View Post
              Rights? 1 Corintians 4, particularly 9-13, really spells it out for me. We give up our "rights" when we become servants.

              The rights we have here on earth given by men can be just as easily taken away by men...but remember, our citizenship is not here, but in a realm to come.
              Can you give me a definition you are using for rights? Does God think all men have the "right to life" since he said "Do not murder"?
              Matt 9:13
              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
              NASU

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                So when God says "Thou shalt not murder" he is not recognizing a right to life?
                Not necessarily...it could just be that He doesn't like us murdering something made in His image.

                After all, we're all eternal...some just have a fleshly covering. Does it make a difference to God if you're wearing a skin suit or not?
                θεοφιλε

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rights? Sure...the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution. That's what I would consider "man given", as an example.

                  Although I can't say I don't like all those rights, I don't need them to be a follower of Christ.

                  I'm not trying to yank your chain or anything, BM...this is all just off the top of my head (which may explain a lot!)
                  θεοφιλε

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Theophilus View Post
                    Not necessarily...it could just be that He doesn't like us murdering something made in His image.
                    Then the thing in his image (us) really has no inherit value to live? It's just the act of murder that's wrong?

                    After all, we're all eternal...some just have a fleshly covering. Does it make a difference to God if you're wearing a skin suit or not?
                    But is that fleshly covering a temple with value?

                    Anyway, back to the question at hand... what is your working definition of a "right"? I don't feel like you are yanking my chain. I started this thread for good discussion. I think we hang on to far too much these days. But I see a difference between demanding a right and having a right.
                    Matt 9:13
                    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                    NASU

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                      Then the thing in his image (us) really has no inherit value to live? It's just the act of murder that's wrong?
                      Based on Genesis, my thoughts are that our value is to worship our Creator, and be the stewards of his Creation. I'm not sure if that is a right or not.

                      Jesus pointed out that hating one's brother equates to murder.

                      Perhaps our main right as Christians is to love? And as others pointed out, as we are servants of God, we have given up any rights except to serve Him. I'm probably being unclear, because it is unclear in my mind yet.

                      But is that fleshly covering a temple with value?
                      Even if something has an intrinsic value, I don't think that means it has any rights.

                      Anyway, back to the question at hand... what is your working definition of a "right"? I don't feel like you are yanking my chain. I started this thread for good discussion. I think we hang on to far too much these days. But I see a difference between demanding a right and having a right.
                      The only rights as far as defnition would be those granted under our secular societies (in my case the Charter of Rights).
                      Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
                      Ecc 7:10

                      John777 exists to me only in quoted form.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                        So when God says "Thou shalt not murder" he is not recognizing a right to life?
                        Jesus also said... "Take no thought for your life", "whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it", and "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."
                        For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

                        If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

                        Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1. It is irrelevant in this world´s secular society, which perpetually modifies righteousness to accommodate sin.
                          2. (John 5:30) We which do believe are to deny our own will, and give up our rights.
                          3. (Luke 23:34)
                          4. With none. Our concerns should not be in what the carnally minded are minding, but what the spiritual minded are minding.
                          And they went out and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                            So when God says "Thou shalt not murder" he is not recognizing a right to life?
                            Could it be that God is recognizing our lack of authority to take a life without just cause?
                            For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

                            If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

                            Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Urban Missionary View Post
                              Jesus also said... "Take no thought for your life", "whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it", and "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."
                              But you are referring to "holding onto something" instead of a "right to something". I think we will all agree that we are not to hold on to something. (And IMO, Jesus is speaking spiritually there. He is not saying go commit suicide and you will live.)
                              Matt 9:13
                              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                              NASU

                              Comment

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