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Who Sinned?

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  • Who Sinned?

    I am going to address this once...and not again.

    And mostly for the sanity of those who don't wish to engage in the debate which seems to be ever so prevalent on our board lately.

    In the story of "the man born blind"...Jesus heals a man who was blind from birth.

    Now...most of the time this story gets no notice....no one ever forms a sermon around it so that the parishioners can parrot the lesson later...and this is for a reason.

    The Jews of Jesus' day often debated higher theologies much along the same lines as people do on this forum.

    If someone was to pay close attention to the dialog between Jesus and the disciples they might see that the conversation doesn't make a whole lot of sense with a simple flat reading. Unless the whole back drop of understanding of the common debate was known.

    The Jews of that time debated the question of the "effect of sin" upon mankind. But this debate went much farther than the title would suggest.

    They wondered why God chose to bless them with the genetics of being Jewish to begin with. Why were other apparently good people not blessed with the genetic line. Why were some Israelites born with such maladies (such as blindness) at birth. Was the effect of sin more corporate in nature or more specific...did someone in his past sin specifically to cause this man to be born blind or was it because of the sin of all of israel that this man was born blind.

    And then there was the Gentile Adoption issue. Some Gentiles were adopted into Israel and believers in God. Caleb in the Old Testament is a classic example. Why and how could these men choose to become believers when the vast majority of people on the Earth did not agree that God is so good...and did not want to become Israelites as well.

    Some were sure that effect of sin was individualistic in nature...It would always affect your legacy. And there was plenty of scripture to back that side up...
    And then some were noticing the free will of mankind and noticing that individuals like Caleb were vastly different from their predecessors and chose something else. This side too had plenty of common sense and scripture to back it up.

    Look carefully again at what Jesus says. "No one sinned"

    Meaning: Neither side of this debate is correct. Neither has it right. Neither answer or question is posed correctly to begin with.

    When debating this issue people forget one of God's main attributes. It is one of those basic and most important lessons that we shouldn't forget.

    God is omnipotent. God is omniscient. These two things together mean that God is always perfectly efficient in his use of power...there is no side effect of giving someone their life that is not intended...no power is ever wasted. Otherwise God is not omnipotent or omniscient. (God gives and creates all life)

    All people have a purpose and function...no life is ever wasted. All give glory to God in some fashion or manner. Some for noble and some for ignoble purposes. All are vessels. Even the most heathen amongst us has a special purpose that God has designed...no better and no worse than we are.

    So....for those that like the debate and wish to carry on debating it...that can very well be described as an ignoble purpose. But carry on if you feel you must.

  • #2
    Sin, according to Jesus, did not cause him to be born blind.

    Jn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

    There are some that believe that because you are sick that it is because of sin.

    Firstfruits

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    • #3
      He must have kicked his mom to hard while she was pregnant. No this man was born to a fallen human race. That is why he was born blind.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Freek View Post
        He must have kicked his mom to hard while she was pregnant. No this man was born to a fallen human race. That is why he was born blind.
        What then about those born without defect yet are most wicked?

        Firstfruits

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
          What then about those born without defect yet are most wicked?

          Firstfruits
          They also die eventually.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Freek View Post
            They also die eventually.
            But we are all born in sin, so does that not also apply to us?

            Firstfruits

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              But we are all born in sin, so does that not also apply to us?

              Firstfruits
              Of course it applies to us. We also die. (Do I understand what you are saying?) Does the Bible say that we are all born equal with our first birth? The second birth is another matter altogether.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Freek View Post
                Of course it applies to us. We also die. (Do I understand what you are saying?) Does the Bible say that we are all born equal with our first birth? The second birth is another matter altogether.
                With regards to the blind man, do you believe that it is because of sin that he was born blind and if so why?

                Firstfruits

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                  With regards to the blind man, do you believe that it is because of sin that he was born blind and if so why?

                  Firstfruits
                  He nor his parents committed a specific sin that had to be "punished". He was born to a fallen human race and yes, that is caused by sin. Can satan be redeemed?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freek View Post
                    He nor his parents committed a specific sin that had to be "punished". He was born to a fallen human race and yes, that is caused by sin. Can satan be redeemed?
                    Knowing that we are all born in sin, why are we not all born with defects?

                    Firstfruits

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                    • #11


                      arrrrgggghhhhh

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnDB View Post


                        arrrrgggghhhhh
                        Hmm. You tell everyone that if they wish to debate, to go ahead and do so. So they are, and because they are, you are 'giving up'? What was your point or purpose in this thread?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
                          Hmm. You tell everyone that if they wish to debate, to go ahead and do so. So they are, and because they are, you are 'giving up'? What was your point or purpose in this thread?
                          The particular debate I was speaking to by exegeting the scripture was about to be again become debated on this particular thread...when the focus is against that particular debate.

                          Those in the beginning stages of debating it were taking exactly the two sides that Jesus said were wrong to begin with.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JohnDB View Post
                            So....for those that like the debate and wish to carry on debating it...that can very well be described as an ignoble purpose. But carry on if you feel you must.
                            Personally I feel the scripture explains the purpose of how Jesus opens the eyes (spiritual) of those who are obedient to Him so they see "Him" and stop just hearing and knowing about Him.
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              Knowing that we are all born in sin, why are we not all born with defects?

                              Firstfruits
                              This is because we are NOT born in sin.

                              As to the man born blind, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."
                              You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

                              Charles G Finney



                              http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

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