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  • Who is Jesus?

    Who is Jesus?
    In faith we know that Jesus is God (John 8:58) in human form; because in Him we see the Spirit of God-which is pure love. He expressed His love by sacrificing His life, in order to compensate for the sins (Matthew 26:28) we committed against Him. He is the love which sends our inner being into ecstasy, the compassion that the eyes of a desperately needy person generates in us, and the mercy and forgiveness we show towards those who hurt us. We can accept Him and find peace by living His life. We can live His life by accepting Him as the only desire of our heart.

  • #2
    This verse that you refer to does not prove that Jesus is god.
    How often did the Jews misunderstand Jesus?
    Jesus also said, at this time, that Abraham desired to see his time, and he did.
    What Jesus is saying is that the “Savior” concept existed previously.
    Jesus himself was not around, in a form that Abraham could see.
    The Jews said Abraham was dead and Jesus said they were liars.
    I would conclude that Abraham knew God and knew of God’s plan, and he believed.
    So, that eternal life that Jesus said he was here to offer had been given to Abraham and he witnessed Jesus, in actuality.
    Of course, the Sadducees were in hot dispute with the Pharisees over the resurrection and Paul later said, in trial, that the Jews wanted to kill him over this very dispute.
    Jesus was using the simple version to indicate his existence, and not the form used to indicate the God, I AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ethnikos View Post
      This verse that you refer to does not prove that Jesus is god.
      How often did the Jews misunderstand Jesus?
      Jesus also said, at this time, that Abraham desired to see his time, and he did.
      What Jesus is saying is that the “Savior” concept existed previously.
      Jesus himself was not around, in a form that Abraham could see.
      The Jews said Abraham was dead and Jesus said they were liars.
      I would conclude that Abraham knew God and knew of God’s plan, and he believed.
      So, that eternal life that Jesus said he was here to offer had been given to Abraham and he witnessed Jesus, in actuality.
      Of course, the Sadducees were in hot dispute with the Pharisees over the resurrection and Paul later said, in trial, that the Jews wanted to kill him over this very dispute.
      Jesus was using the simple version to indicate his existence, and not the form used to indicate the God, I AM.
      Heresy aside...

      The passage is obviously saying that Jesus is eternal and existed as God before Abraham. Notice that he says, "before Abraham was [past tense], I am [present tense]." There is no doubt Jesus was referring to Himself as God.

      How do you deal with John 1?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
        Heresy aside...
        The passage is obviously saying that Jesus is eternal and existed as God before Abraham. Notice that he says, "before Abraham was [past tense], I am [present tense]." There is no doubt Jesus was referring to Himself as God.
        How do you deal with John 1?
        Thanks for starting your post by calling my thoughts heresy. Did you make yourself Pope to pass judgment?
        Your argument seems to be based on bad grammar. So, by your logic,"in the case of bad grammar, I declare Jesus as God. So obvious."

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        • #5
          Who do you say Jesus is?

          John 12:44-45

          44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

          Isaiah 45-21-23

          21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.

          22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

          23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.

          John 14:9

          9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

          Isaiah 9:6

          6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

          John 20:26-28

          26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

          So who is Jesus Christ according to the scriptures above?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Revelationtime View Post
            Who do you say Jesus is?

            So who is Jesus Christ according to the scriptures above?
            Someone who had been given the authority to bring into being the Kingdom of God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ethnikos View Post
              Thanks for starting your post by calling my thoughts heresy. Did you make yourself Pope to pass judgment?
              Your argument seems to be based on bad grammar. So, by your logic,"in the case of bad grammar, I declare Jesus as God. So obvious."
              No, it's simply a known fact that in the history of Christianity those who have denied the Deity of Christ have been considered heretics. The reason - and this just might be a guess - is because denying the Deity of Christ is heretical.

              Secondly, it's not bad grammar at all. Anyone looking at the historical context into which Jesus was speaking can see this. Jesus is stating, bluntly, that before Abraham existed He existed. When probed further on this, He says, "I tell you the truth - before Abraham existed, I AM." Now notice what the Pharisees do immediately after He states this: They try to kill Him for [what they called] blasphemy. He equated Himself with God.

              Again, what do you do with John 1? How do you deal with the fact that John is saying Jesus IS God?

              Comment


              • #8
                arunangelo, right on target. A mini-masterpiece!

                Comment


                • #9
                  AAAAAAAMEN! Thanks for those scriptures, Revtime!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                    No, it's simply a known fact that in the history of Christianity those who have denied the Deity of Christ have been considered heretics. The reason - and this just might be a guess - is because denying the Deity of Christ is heretical.

                    Secondly, it's not bad grammar at all. Anyone looking at the historical context into which Jesus was speaking can see this. Jesus is stating, bluntly, that before Abraham existed He existed. When probed further on this, He says, "I tell you the truth - before Abraham existed, I AM." Now notice what the Pharisees do immediately after He states this: They try to kill Him for [what they called] blasphemy. He equated Himself with God.

                    Again, what do you do with John 1? How do you deal with the fact that John is saying Jesus IS God?
                    It is a fact that there was a state sponsored organization that went about declaring people heretics. Are you trying to make this an argument about the authority of the "Church"?
                    Jesus said Abraham desired to see his day, he did, and was glad.
                    You must be using a different version of the Bible than I am. My Bible says they picked up stones and Jesus hid himself. End of chapter.
                    John 1 is not the topic of this thread. I am stating that John 8:56, quoted by the original poster, is not proof that Jesus is God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would like to expand a little on these scriptures......


                      Originally posted by Revelationtime View Post
                      Who do you say Jesus is?

                      John 12:44-45

                      44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

                      Jesus is making it clear here you are NOT ALLOWED to believe in him unless you understand something else about him. That is that the one who sent him is in fact the same one you see when you look at Jesus. Jesus is God Almighty the Father. I will speak about what Jesus said about the Father being greater than he in a moment.

                      Isaiah 45-21-23

                      21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.

                      Jesus is a just God and Savior and it states there is no GOD or Savior besides the God of Israel. Since this is Jewish scripture then Jesus is either God and Savior or not. If this scripture is true and we know it is then Jesus is God Almighty the creator and our Father. John 1 makes that clear as well.

                      22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

                      Once agian God declares there is no God but the God of Israel

                      23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.

                      Notice above God said he has sworn by himself and to him every knee shall bow. If every knee is going to bow to Jesus then Jesus has to be God Almighty our Father.

                      John 14:9

                      9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

                      Isaiah 9:6

                      6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

                      John 20:26-28

                      26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

                      So who is Jesus Christ according to the scriptures above?

                      Jesus is God the Father the creator, but when Jesus became flesh he came as a son with no more power than Adam had before the fall. Adam had great authority and wisdom with God in the garden until he fell.

                      Jesus had to pass the test Adam failed to redeem us which was temptation and obedience. If Jesus had used his power as God rather than limit himself to no more power than Adam had before the fall then Lucifer would have known who Jesus was and from God's point of view it would have been cheating.

                      When Jesus said he considered it robbery to be considered equal to God he did mean it. Even though Jesus was the Father he was operating with only the power Adam had as a son before the fall. Any other power Jesus manifested he attested to the Father's work.

                      The Holy spirit also spoke out of heaven saying concerning Jesus, " This is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased."

                      Jesus also said " The father is greater than I."

                      Jesus knew he had to die for us in order to redeem us legally, Jesus also knew he had to keep hidden the fullness of who he was until all was fulfilled, but Jesus gave us clues everywhere who he was.

                      When Jesus died on the Cross for us he died as a real son of God because he limited himself in power to that of a son, but when Jesus rose for our justification he no longer had to hide who he was.

                      Peter said you are the son of the living God, and Jesus affirmed that without correction to Peter.

                      Years later doubting Thomas said MY LORD AND MY GOD and Jesus did not correct him.

                      Before Jesus had accended he said to Mary " Do not touch me Mary for I have not yet accended to the Father.

                      Later he said to Thomas, put your hand in my side and touch my wound and be believing, not faithless.


                      The scriptures declare that no one can say Jesus is Lord (with faith & understanding) without the Holy Spirit.

                      The Word Lord in the greek is Kurios, it is as Thomas spoke it. It does not mean Lord Churchill or some knighted person from England. It means LORD as in God Almighty.

                      So the scripture is true, " No one can say Jesus Christ is God Almighty (LORD) except by the Holy Spirit. That is what that scripture really means. No one can say Jesus is God except by the Holy Spirit.

                      If you say Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings then what you are really saying is that Jesus is God above all Gods King above kings. So be the truth Amen and Forever Amen.

                      I praise you Father Jesus Father God

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Revelationtime View Post
                        Jesus is God the Father the creator, but when Jesus became flesh he came as a son with no more power than Adam had before the fall. Adam had great authority and wisdom with God in the garden until he fell.
                        Jesus had to pass the test Adam failed to redeem us which was temptation and obedience. If Jesus had used his power as God rather than limit himself to no more power than Adam had before the fall then Lucifer would have known who Jesus was and from God's point of view it would have been cheating.
                        When Jesus said he considered it robbery to be considered equal to God he did mean it. Even though Jesus was the Father he was operating with only the power Adam had as a son before the fall. Any other power Jesus manifested he attested to the Father's work.
                        The Holy spirit also spoke out of heaven saying concerning Jesus, " This is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased."
                        Jesus also said " The father is greater than I."
                        Jesus knew he had to die for us in order to redeem us legally, Jesus also knew he had to keep hidden the fullness of who he was until that was fulfilled. But Jesus gave us clues everywhere who he was.
                        When Jesus died on the Cross he died as a real son of God for us because he limited himself in power to that of a son, but when Jesus rose for our justification he no longer had to hide who he was.
                        Peter said you are the son of the living God, and Jesus affirmed that without correction to Peter.
                        Years doubting Thomas said MY LORD AND MY GOD and Jesus did not correct him.
                        Before Jesus had accended he said to Mary " Do not touch me Mary for I have not yet accended to the Father.
                        Later he said to Thomas, put your hand in my side and touch my wound and be believing, not faithless.
                        The scriptures declare that no one say Jesus is Lord (with faith & understanding) without the Holy Spirit.
                        The Word Lord in the greek is Kurios, it is as Thomas spoke. It does not mean Lord Churchill or some knight person from England. It means LORD as in God Almighty.
                        So the scripture is true, " Non One can say Jesus Christ is God Almighty (LORD) except by the Holy Spirit. That is what that scripture really means.
                        If you say Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings then what you are saying is that Jesus is God above all God King above kings. So be the truth Amen and Forever Amen.
                        I praise you Father Jesus Father God
                        You say in your post, "Jesus also knew he had to keep hidden the fullness of who he was until that was fulfilled." Did he do that? reveal his fullness. Did he go to his disciples, after rising from the dead, and tell them, "Now I can tell you the truth, I am God." Somehow that must have been left out of the Gospels.
                        Funny no one is calling you a heretic for espousing non-orthodox theology. This theory of yours does not conform with the sanctioned view of the Trinity. This sounds like some form of Pentecostal "Oneness" view of the nature of God. I believe in the Bible and my Bible says Jesus was born of the young woman, Mary. My understanding of the scripture does not show a pre-existence of Jesus, before he was born.
                        Help yourself if you feel it necessary to worship Jesus but I do not go along with this idea that Jesus the Son is one and the same as God the Father.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Preach it, bro Revtime. Shout it from the housetops, proclaim it in the city streets! Do you do speaking engagements?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                            Joh 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
                            Joh 1:3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being.

                            Case closed.
                            Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is a fact that there was a state sponsored organization that went about declaring people heretics. Are you trying to make this an argument about the authority of the "Church"?
                              Prior to 325 the orthodox position was still that Jesus was God and anyone denying that position was not a true Christian. That is the orthodox and Biblical position to hold in the modern era.

                              Jesus said Abraham desired to see his day, he did, and was glad.
                              You must be using a different version of the Bible than I am. My Bible says they picked up stones and Jesus hid himself. End of chapter.
                              So they wanted to kill Him for a misunderstanding? He was just saying, "Abraham was looking forward to this time" and the Pharisees just misunderstood Him? For someone who is supposedly wise, why didn't He just say, "Whoa whoa whoa, guys, there is no need to stone me, I'm not really claiming equality with God, you misunderstood me!"

                              John 1 is not the topic of this thread. I am stating that John 8:56, quoted by the original poster, is not proof that Jesus is God.
                              That's quite deceptive. The topic of the thread is that Jesus is God. John 8:56 was just used as partial evidence. Nice try to slip out of it, but again, how do you deal with John 1?

                              Also, shouldn't you change your status to "not a Christian" since you deny the Deity of Christ and the Virgin conception?

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