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  • Is "Lucifer" Satan?

    I just came across a teaching I had never heard before saying that Lucifer is not Satan, but the King of Babylon.

    Is this correct?

  • #2
    "Lucifer" is not Satan.

    1. The translation error
    Isaiah 14.12, in many translations, refers to an individual called "Lucifer", occasionally rendered as Morning Star or Day Star. To properly explain why this is an error requires examining the original Hebrew word used and the history of how it was translated.

    In the Hebrew text of Isaiah 14.12, the noun used is hyll. The origin of the noun hyll is the root verb hlal. The verb hlal can mean "to shine", but it also (more often) means "to celebrate", "to boast", "to commend", "to praise". (Hlal is the root word for hallelu-Yah, which everyone knows to mean "praise God".) Hence, the noun hyll's proper meaning is something such as "shining one", "praising one", or "boasting one".

    When the Latin Vulgate was being made, the translator decided that the closest equivalent to hyll was lucifer, which was the name of the "morning star" (which turned out to actually be the planet Venus). Lucifer means "light bringer" or "light bearer". It shouldn't need to be explained, but the word hyll ("shining one", "praising one", "boasting one") does not have the same meaning as the word lucifer ("light bringer", "light bearer"). And in extension, "morning star" is even less of a proper translation of hyll into English.

    The noun hyll is being used as a descriptor of the person it is being applied to. It is not a name. So how should it be translated? Should it be "shining one"? "Praising one"? "Boasting one"?

    In 14.4, the king is mocked, "How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased!" In 14.8, the king is told, "you were laid low". In 14.9-11, the king's ego is brought down by his eventual death, when he will join the countless who have died before him. He will "become as weak" as they have. His "pomp is brought down". In 14.12, the king is told "how [he has] fallen" and "how [he has been] cut down to the ground". In 14.13-14, his heart is filled with pride, and he considers himself to be greater than all gods (including God). In 14.15-22, the king is told of his death, of how he will not be given glory, of how his sons will be slaughtered. Throughout the whole chapter, the king of Babylon is being humiliated and debased and humbled. The chapter is mocking his pride, his boastfulness.

    We have here our answer: hyll is best rendered in English as "boasting one", because that is how the king of Babylon is described throughout the whole chapter, as boasting of himself, and of his eventual humiliation. As should be seen by the original Hebrew word, and the context of the passage, lucifer is not the right word to translate here.

    2. The identity error
    Isaiah 14 repeatedly says who it is referring to. Even if the word lucifer was the right word to be used, Isaiah is not speaking about Satan. The king of Babylon is consistently seen in Scripture as being a human king, and this is made plainly clear in Isaiah 14.

    First, the king of Babylon is told that he will go down to sheol (the grave) when he dies. No passage in Scripture connects Satan (or any other fallen angel) as being sent to sheol, and likewise, no Scripture says that Satan (or any other fallen angel) will die (unless you count "the second death", being the Lake of Fire in the book of Revelation, which is not the same thing as sheol).

    Second, the king of Babylon says in his heart that he "will ascend to heaven". Nowhere does the text describe the king of Babylon as actually, physically attempting to wage war upon God in order to steal God's throne. The passage is speaking about the prideful condition of the king of Babylon's heart. Meaning, the king of Babylon did not literally try to climb up "the mount of assembly" in order to deify himself.

    Third, the king of Babylon is outright called a man in 14.16. Likewise, he is said to have "sons" and "offspring". He also has a "people" he can call his own. The king of Babylon is human, and nothing in the text suggests otherwise.

    Fourth, in order for this passage to be considered to have a "dual fulfillment", in both the human king of Babylon, and the fallen angel Satan, one must first overcome all of the previously mentioned obstacles, and even then the "dual fulfillment" is entirely assumed about the passage. Just because the reader has a hunch that the text is also about Satan does not mean it is about him. They need definitive Scripture that says so, and there is none. There is not a single passage in Scripture that connects Satan to the individual described in Isaiah 14.

    Isaiah 14 is not referring to Satan. Satan was not named "Lucifer" before his fall. The individual in Isaiah 14, called hyll ("boasting one") is the boastful, prideful human king of Babylon, and that's all.
    To This Day

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Welder4Christ View Post
      I just came across a teaching I had never heard before saying that Lucifer is not Satan, but the King of Babylon.

      Is this correct?

      Hello Welder4Christ,

      All different names and titles for the the same entity and there are many more names and title he goes by in the Scripture.

      Did you know that satan/lucifer/the King of Babylon/death/the serpent/dragon/king of tyre/son of perdition/god of this world/man/enemy/antichrist/devil/etc...quotes the Bible too?

      He has many names and titles.

      A friend of mine once said the greatest trick the devil has ever done is convincing the world he doesn't exist.

      Hope this helps,
      Love Fountain

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm.....well we all know that Satan is the power and driving force behind many of the world's leaders.

        We also know that pride has brought down many of these leaders, and even Satan himself. For me, its not such a stretch to think that the passage is actually talking to the driving force behind the king's rulership, that being Satan himself. Sounds to me like this king was extremely inflated in his ego....just as we know the anti-Christ and the son of perdition to be.

        After all, when Jesus Christ was addressing Peter that one time, He said "Get thee behind me Satan." I don't think that Jesus was calling Peter Satan.

        Comment


        • #5
          But the problem with that is, Satan is specifically mentioned by Jesus when he rebuked Peter. Satan is specifically mentioned by Paul when he describes the "son of perdition".

          Satan is not once mentioned when Isaiah rebukes the king of Babylon.
          To This Day

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          • #6
            Originally posted by markedward View Post
            But the problem with that is, Satan is specifically mentioned by Jesus when he rebuked Peter. Satan is specifically mentioned by Paul when he describes the "son of perdition".

            Satan is not once mentioned when Isaiah rebukes the king of Babylon.
            Verse 14 says that the Babylonian king said in his heart that he would be like the Most High -- this is a blatant reference to God. What person, king or not, would in his right mind make this claim? This is what Satan claimed.

            It just seems to me like the power behind this king's authority is being addressed here. This description is parallel to that of Satan.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Welder4Christ View Post
              Verse 14 says that the Babylonian king said in his heart that he would be like the Most High -- this is a blatant reference to God.
              But not a blatant reference to Satan.

              What person, king or not, would in his right mind make this claim?
              Kings of Babylon.
              Kings of Akkad.
              Kings of Egypt.
              Kings of Chaldea (neo-Babylon).
              Kings of Media-Persia.
              Kings of Greece.
              Kings of Rome.
              Kings of China.
              Kings of Japan.
              Kings of Maya.
              Kings of Inca.

              Basically every pagan king before the first coming of Christ, and several afterwards.
              To This Day

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              • #8
                Hey, Mark -- I really hate to sound like the church lady here, but couldn't it be Satan?

                I mean, I understand that it is a direct reference to the King of Babylon, but couldn't it also be an indirect reference to Satan as well? After all, God was the one who was telling Isaiah what to write. He knew what was going on behind-the-scenes, and the whole passage is just rife with imagery of Satan's arrogance.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by markedward View Post
                  Kings of Babylon.
                  Kings of Akkad.
                  Kings of Egypt.
                  Kings of Chaldea (neo-Babylon).
                  Kings of Media-Persia.
                  Kings of Greece.
                  Kings of Rome.
                  Kings of China.
                  Kings of Japan.
                  Kings of Maya.
                  Kings of Inca.

                  Basically every pagan king before the first coming of Christ, and several afterwards.
                  Really? All these kings claimed that they would be on equal footing with God?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not every single king from those empires, but many did, yes. Hence my generalization of "basically".

                    Archaeological records attest to the (self-)deification of many of these kings. Pharaohs were initially believed to be the sons of gods, and later, they were seen as the actual gods, incarnated as men. Naram-Suen of Akkad is considered to be the first self-deified ruler in Mesopotamia, at about 2200 BC. The Chinese emperors were deified as "sons of heaven". Julius Caesar was deified as "the Divine Julius" after he died, but his son and several emperors over the following centuries were deified will yet alive, taking the titles of "god", "son of god", "son of the divine", and "savior".

                    Even the Japanese emperors were considered incarnated gods until World War 2.



                    Of the kings that did consider themselves deities, they either did not believe that the God of the Bible (YHWH) existed, or if they did acknowledge his existence, they considered themselves superior to him. The self-deified condition of such a king's heart was placing him above the true God, regardless of whether or not a king had knowledge of who that God was.

                    Here's a somewhat comedic example: Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris both make (B-class) action movies. Their careers overlapped. For the sake of example, assume that Steven Seagal has absolutely never heard of Chuck Norris, yet Steven Seagal claims to be the best (B-class) action movie film star. While Steven Seagal has never heard of Chuck Norris, and never mentioned Chuck Norris by name, in his heart Steven Seagal considers himself to be superior to Chuck Norris.

                    In the same way, the king of Babylon may never have heard of YHWH, the true God. But by the mere fact that the king of Babylon is so arrogant, prideful, boastful, and has deified himself, in his heart he considers himself to be greater than the true God.

                    Satan may be the driving force behind the king of Babylon... but Isaiah is not referring to Satan, he is referring to the king of Babylon. Isaiah is not claiming that Satan's former name was "Lucifer", he is calling the king of Babylon a "boasting one".
                    To This Day

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Isaiah 14:12 NKJ
                      "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! Even the cowboys knew that Lucifer was fire. You got a lucifer?To light a cigerette

                      Luke 10:18 NKJ
                      And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

                      2 Corinthians 11:14 NKJ
                      And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

                      Revelation 2:9 NKJ
                      I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (satan has a church)

                      Revelation 3:9 NKJ
                      Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews (Christains) and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you

                      Revelation 2:13 NKJ
                      I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells( Roman rule)

                      Revelation 11:8 NKJ
                      And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.(Roman rule)

                      Read 17th chapter book of Rev.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        None of those have to do with determining the identity of "lucifer"...
                        To This Day

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Welder4Christ View Post
                          I just came across a teaching I had never heard before saying that Lucifer is not Satan, but the King of Babylon.

                          Is this correct?
                          No that is not correct, satan, lucifer, the king of babylon, all the same. Isa 14 is about when satan will be cast into the pit and his deception removed for the 1000 year millenium. Rest given and deception removed.

                          Let's have a look.

                          Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

                          20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                          20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

                          When the above happens then will those who see satan in the pit will say.

                          Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

                          14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

                          14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

                          14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

                          14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

                          14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                          Those who see him at the time mentioned above, shall see him in the pit, deceiving the nations no more! Even Paul spoke of the self exaltation of satan when referred to as the son of perdition in 2Thes 2 which is the time just before he will be cast into the pit.

                          2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

                          2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

                          When satan is cast into the pit, then shall come the rest and restoration.

                          Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

                          14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

                          14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

                          14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

                          14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

                          It shall happen exactly as it is written and lucifer is just another name/title for satan, the old serpent, the dragon, the king of babylon, the shining one, messenger of light, the assyrian, the antichrist, the god of this world and the deceiver of the whole world.

                          Let us come out of her my people and REPENT!! Turn our hearts back to the Father's word and be healed and converted.

                          Hope this helps.

                          Bless you,
                          Love Fountain

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Love Fountain View Post
                            No that is not correct, satan, lucifer, the king of babylon, all the same. Isa 14 is about when satan will be cast into the pit and his deception removed for the 1000 year millenium. Rest given and deception removed.

                            Let's have a look.

                            Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

                            20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                            20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

                            When the above happens then will those who see satan in the pit will say.

                            Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

                            14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

                            14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

                            14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

                            14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

                            14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                            Those who see him at the time mentioned above, shall see him in the pit, deceiving the nations no more! Even Paul spoke of the self exaltation of satan when referred to as the son of perdition in 2Thes 2 which is the time just before he will be cast into the pit.

                            2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

                            2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

                            When satan is cast into the pit, then shall come the rest and restoration.

                            Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

                            14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

                            14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

                            14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

                            14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

                            It shall happen exactly as it is written and lucifer is just another name/title for satan, the old serpent, the dragon, the king of babylon, the shining one, messenger of light, the assyrian, the antichrist, the god of this world and the deceiver of the whole world.

                            Let us come out of her my people and REPENT!! Turn our hearts back to the Father's word and be healed and converted.

                            Hope this helps.

                            Bless you,
                            Love Fountain


                            This is a pretty interesting connection, not that I agree or anything. Can you now show with the OT, when and why satan is released, and that he once again deceives the nations? IOW, from where Isaiah 14 left off.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Welder4Christ View Post
                              I mean, I understand that it is a direct reference to the King of Babylon, but couldn't it also be an indirect reference to Satan as well? After all, God was the one who was telling Isaiah what to write. He knew what was going on behind-the-scenes, and the whole passage is just rife with imagery of Satan's arrogance.
                              Only if you assume it's about Satan. Nothing in the text implies that it is about Satan; all of the imagery and language in the text points to a human king who has deified himself in his own eyes... this was true for many, many individuals in history (especially during the era that Isaiah was writing), so there's simply no reason within the context of what Isaiah wrote to say, "Look, it's talking about Satan!"

                              The "indirect reference" is wholly assumed by the reader. It's entirely based on a hunch. Interpreting the king of Babylon to be Satan is founded wholly upon eisegetical methods.

                              Put the belief on hold for a moment that "lucifer = Satan". Say there was an individual who had never heard of this connection. They are fluent in history. They have studied a great deal about kings who deified themselves. They knew this was true about kings from Babylon. Then they read the New Testament and became a Christian. Then they read the Old Testament and got to this passage for the first time. The Hebrew word hyll is properly translated into English as "boasting one". Now, can you objectively, honestly state that this person will read Isaiah 14 and ever come to the conclusion that Isaiah was prophesying about anyone other than the king of Babylon?

                              If you can say objectively and honestly that yes, they would connect "the boasting one", the king of Babylon, to Satan... then maybe Isaiah 14 is indirectly referring to Satan. (I would still have my own doubts, but that's up to others, not me.) If you can say objectively and honestly that no, they would never find a connection between Satan and the king of Babylon "the boasting one" unless someone had first told them, then it is more than likely that no, Isaiah's prophecy has nothing to do with Satan, there is no dual fulfillment, etc.
                              To This Day

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