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  • Tithing

    Can someone tell me where in the Bible it tells that tithing means giving 10% of your money. I know what tithing is I'm just unclear about this.
    Thanks
    There is nothing like hearing the prayer of a little child

  • #2
    The word "tithe" literally means "a tenth".
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by peacewithin View Post
      I know what tithing is I'm just unclear about this.
      Thanks
      What exactly is tithing?
      This IGNORE button is by far one of the most useful tools I've used to keep my peace while navigating through some of the madness.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by peacewithin View Post
        Can someone tell me where in the Bible it tells that tithing means giving 10% of your money. I know what tithing is I'm just unclear about this.
        Thanks
        Isn't it a tenth of everything? not just your money, but your time and so on...
        We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

        Comment


        • #5
          The OT Law often calls it the tenth. Even before Levitical Law, the Patriarchs tithed. In Jacob's case, he agreed if God fulfilled his conditions:

          So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
          And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
          Yes, I already know about I Timothy 1:4 and Titus 3:9.
          But these are endless and foolish genealogies, not God-given bible genealogies.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by -SEEKING- View Post
            What exactly is tithing?
            Actually "tithing" has taken place even before it was mentioned in the Bible. Simply put, it is the custom of giving one tenth of your profits, harvest, etcetera to someone who is your superior. It was a way of showing respect and/or subjugation.
            Psalm 19:14
            Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by peacewithin View Post
              Can someone tell me where in the Bible it tells that tithing means giving 10% of your money. I know what tithing is I'm just unclear about this.
              Thanks
              According to the law of Moses it is a tenth of all, to be given at the third year.

              Deut 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

              Deut 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

              It is not a new testament commandment/teaching/requirement.

              Firstfruits

              Comment


              • #8
                In Deu 10:9, Deu 18:1-2 and Josh 13:14,33 we see that there was no land given to the Levites (the descendants of Levi) and because of that, God commanded the other brothers to provide the Levites with part of their agricultural products from the land (since the Levites had no land to grow crops or raise cattle). The Lord told them to give a tenth of the agricultural products OF THE LAND to the Levites and the poor and needy because the Levites (and the poor) had no land as an inheritance. The Lord referred to this arrangement as:

                a. The tithe of the land (Lev 27:30)
                b. The tithe of the ground (Neh 10:37)
                c. The tithe of the field (Deu 14:22; 1Chr 31:4-6; Neh 12:44)

                It was never referred to as the tithe of the ocean or the sea. It was never referred to as the tithe of the furniture manufactured in Israel or the tithe of the building materials. The tithe had to be agricultural products that had to be eaten. Nothing is said about forbidding the Levites from fishing or not having bodies of water. As such, Israel did not have to give the Levites 10% of their fish. It was all about agricultural products that had to be eaten (produce and clean animals from the herds raised in the land of Israel). The reason is because the Levites could not own land to grow crops or raise cattle.

                The Law of Tithing (as given to Moses)

                1. Only land owners (farmers) that were growing crops or raising cattle had to tithe. People that did not own land could not tithe. The only thing acceptable as a tithing offering were agricultural products like corn, wine, strong drinks, oil, tithe of the herd or of the flock like lambs, sheep, goats, etc.. (see Deu 14:23,26; 2Chr 31:6; Neh 10:37; Neh 13:5,12). The poor people that did not own any land could not tithe. When Peter caught 153 fishes (John 21:11), he owed nothing as tithe offering because it is the tithe of the land, not the sea.
                2. Carpenters were not required to tithe 10% of their income. According to the law of Moses, money was not accepted by God as a tithe offering.
                3. The Israelites had to give 10 % of their land products to the Levites because they did not have land as an inheritance, they had the Lord as their inheritance.
                4. Tithing was also given to the poor and needy (widows, orphans, newcomers to the land). Tithing was part of God’s welfare program. (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). The poor did not give tithe, the poor received the tithe (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). To ask the poor to tithe is exactly the opposite of what God established in His Word. See Appendix B for more information.
                5. The tithing for the poor had to be placed at the entrance of the cities in Israel where the Levites and the poor will come to collect it (Deu 14:28-29). The Levites will then bring the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem.
                6. The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,11,18; Deu 14:23).
                7. If the Jews lived too far from Jerusalem, they were allowed to turn their agricultural products (their tithe) into money (to eliminate traveling with produce and animals). But once they arrived at Jerusalem, they had to turn the money into agricultural products before bringing the offering to God because God did not accept money as a tithing offering. The reason was so that the tithing offering could be eaten before the Lord in his Temple. (Deu 14:24-26).
                8. Because they had to bring their tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem, God did not make it a burden to those living far away from Jerusalem, to travel every week or every month to bring the tithe. Instead, he told the Israelites that they had to bring their tithes once every 3 years. That year was called the year of tithing (see Deu 14:28; Deu 26:12; Amos 4:4).
                9. If the people failed to bring in their tithes in the year of tithing, they were commanded by the law to bring them back the next year of tithing (3 years later) with 20 percent interest. To be financially accurate, twenty percent interest every 3 years translates to 6.3 % interest per year or 0.12 % interest per week. It is not 20% interest added the next Sunday after someone missed the offering.
                10. The tithe or the 10th part of the agricultural products in Israel belonged to the Lord. It really belonged to him because man put the seed on the ground, but it was the Lord that made it grow. The Lord did most of the work. That is why he considered it robbery not to give Him his part. He had earned it. The Lord in turn, gave what belonged to him to the Levite and the poor. (Lev 27:30; Num 18:24; Deu 26:12; Neh 13:5; Mal 3:8-10).
                11. The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th). If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).
                12. The Law of God required the Levites to give a tenth of the tithes that they received back unto the Lord. (Num 18:26). This had to be the best of the tithe and the Levite had to give it to the priests that ministered in the Temple (for their consumption).

                Because the Temple is no longer in place in Jerusalem and there are no Levites running a priesthood anymore, the laws connected with the Levitical priesthood and the Temple are no longer in effect. That is why the Jews do not kill a lamb during Passover, no one offers animals for sin offerings, there are no more animal sacrifices. Those laws are gone with the Temple and the priesthood. The law of tithing is part of that group. Rom 4:15; Rom 5:13 and 1 Jo 3:4 say that where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin cannot be inputted where there is no law. Because of that, since the Temple was destroyed and the Levitical priesthood disappeared, no one is robbing God of anything when people fail to bring their tithes (their agricultural products to the Levites in the Temple). Furthermore, Colossians 2:14 and Eph 2:15 reiterate that Jesus removed those laws when he was nailed to the cross.

                Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

                Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace.

                The current law of tithing preached in today’s protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible. That is a commandment of man. God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men.

                Furthermore, the NT giving is totally based on love. We give because we want to, not because we have to (big difference). We should give as we purposed in our hearts, not as the pastor purposed in his heart, but as we purposed in our hearts, not grudginly or OUT OF NECESSITY !!! for the Lord loves the cheerful giver.

                Shalom

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Servant89 View Post
                  In Deu 10:9, Deu 18:1-2 and Josh 13:14,33 we see that there was no land given to the Levites (the descendants of Levi) and because of that, God commanded the other brothers to provide the Levites with part of their agricultural products from the land (since the Levites had no land to grow crops or raise cattle). The Lord told them to give a tenth of the agricultural products OF THE LAND to the Levites and the poor and needy because the Levites (and the poor) had no land as an inheritance. The Lord referred to this arrangement as:

                  a. The tithe of the land (Lev 27:30)
                  b. The tithe of the ground (Neh 10:37)
                  c. The tithe of the field (Deu 14:22; 1Chr 31:4-6; Neh 12:44)

                  It was never referred to as the tithe of the ocean or the sea. It was never referred to as the tithe of the furniture manufactured in Israel or the tithe of the building materials. The tithe had to be agricultural products that had to be eaten. Nothing is said about forbidding the Levites from fishing or not having bodies of water. As such, Israel did not have to give the Levites 10% of their fish. It was all about agricultural products that had to be eaten (produce and clean animals from the herds raised in the land of Israel). The reason is because the Levites could not own land to grow crops or raise cattle.

                  The Law of Tithing (as given to Moses)

                  1. Only land owners (farmers) that were growing crops or raising cattle had to tithe. People that did not own land could not tithe. The only thing acceptable as a tithing offering were agricultural products like corn, wine, strong drinks, oil, tithe of the herd or of the flock like lambs, sheep, goats, etc.. (see Deu 14:23,26; 2Chr 31:6; Neh 10:37; Neh 13:5,12). The poor people that did not own any land could not tithe. When Peter caught 153 fishes (John 21:11), he owed nothing as tithe offering because it is the tithe of the land, not the sea.
                  2. Carpenters were not required to tithe 10% of their income. According to the law of Moses, money was not accepted by God as a tithe offering.
                  3. The Israelites had to give 10 % of their land products to the Levites because they did not have land as an inheritance, they had the Lord as their inheritance.
                  4. Tithing was also given to the poor and needy (widows, orphans, newcomers to the land). Tithing was part of God’s welfare program. (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). The poor did not give tithe, the poor received the tithe (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). To ask the poor to tithe is exactly the opposite of what God established in His Word. See Appendix B for more information.
                  5. The tithing for the poor had to be placed at the entrance of the cities in Israel where the Levites and the poor will come to collect it (Deu 14:28-29). The Levites will then bring the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem.
                  6. The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,11,18; Deu 14:23).
                  7. If the Jews lived too far from Jerusalem, they were allowed to turn their agricultural products (their tithe) into money (to eliminate traveling with produce and animals). But once they arrived at Jerusalem, they had to turn the money into agricultural products before bringing the offering to God because God did not accept money as a tithing offering. The reason was so that the tithing offering could be eaten before the Lord in his Temple. (Deu 14:24-26).
                  8. Because they had to bring their tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem, God did not make it a burden to those living far away from Jerusalem, to travel every week or every month to bring the tithe. Instead, he told the Israelites that they had to bring their tithes once every 3 years. That year was called the year of tithing (see Deu 14:28; Deu 26:12; Amos 4:4).
                  9. If the people failed to bring in their tithes in the year of tithing, they were commanded by the law to bring them back the next year of tithing (3 years later) with 20 percent interest. To be financially accurate, twenty percent interest every 3 years translates to 6.3 % interest per year or 0.12 % interest per week. It is not 20% interest added the next Sunday after someone missed the offering.
                  10. The tithe or the 10th part of the agricultural products in Israel belonged to the Lord. It really belonged to him because man put the seed on the ground, but it was the Lord that made it grow. The Lord did most of the work. That is why he considered it robbery not to give Him his part. He had earned it. The Lord in turn, gave what belonged to him to the Levite and the poor. (Lev 27:30; Num 18:24; Deu 26:12; Neh 13:5; Mal 3:8-10).
                  11. The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th). If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).
                  12. The Law of God required the Levites to give a tenth of the tithes that they received back unto the Lord. (Num 18:26). This had to be the best of the tithe and the Levite had to give it to the priests that ministered in the Temple (for their consumption).

                  Because the Temple is no longer in place in Jerusalem and there are no Levites running a priesthood anymore, the laws connected with the Levitical priesthood and the Temple are no longer in effect. That is why the Jews do not kill a lamb during Passover, no one offers animals for sin offerings, there are no more animal sacrifices. Those laws are gone with the Temple and the priesthood. The law of tithing is part of that group. Rom 4:15; Rom 5:13 and 1 Jo 3:4 say that where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin cannot be inputted where there is no law. Because of that, since the Temple was destroyed and the Levitical priesthood disappeared, no one is robbing God of anything when people fail to bring their tithes (their agricultural products to the Levites in the Temple). Furthermore, Colossians 2:14 and Eph 2:15 reiterate that Jesus removed those laws when he was nailed to the cross.

                  Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

                  Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace.

                  The current law of tithing preached in today’s protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible. That is a commandment of man. God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men.

                  Furthermore, the NT giving is totally based on love. We give because we want to, not because we have to (big difference). We should give as we purposed in our hearts, not as the pastor purposed in his heart, but as we purposed in our hearts, not grudginly or OUT OF NECESSITY !!! for the Lord loves the cheerful giver.

                  Shalom
                  This is a very good response Servant!! I wholeheartedly agree!!!

                  Blessings,
                  RW

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Servant89 View Post
                    In Deu 10:9, Deu 18:1-2 and Josh 13:14,33 we see that there was no land given to the Levites (the descendants of Levi) and because of that, God commanded the other brothers to provide the Levites with part of their agricultural products from the land (since the Levites had no land to grow crops or raise cattle). The Lord told them to give a tenth of the agricultural products OF THE LAND to the Levites and the poor and needy because the Levites (and the poor) had no land as an inheritance. The Lord referred to this arrangement as:

                    a. The tithe of the land (Lev 27:30)
                    b. The tithe of the ground (Neh 10:37)
                    c. The tithe of the field (Deu 14:22; 1Chr 31:4-6; Neh 12:44)

                    It was never referred to as the tithe of the ocean or the sea. It was never referred to as the tithe of the furniture manufactured in Israel or the tithe of the building materials. The tithe had to be agricultural products that had to be eaten. Nothing is said about forbidding the Levites from fishing or not having bodies of water. As such, Israel did not have to give the Levites 10% of their fish. It was all about agricultural products that had to be eaten (produce and clean animals from the herds raised in the land of Israel). The reason is because the Levites could not own land to grow crops or raise cattle.

                    The Law of Tithing (as given to Moses)

                    1. Only land owners (farmers) that were growing crops or raising cattle had to tithe. People that did not own land could not tithe. The only thing acceptable as a tithing offering were agricultural products like corn, wine, strong drinks, oil, tithe of the herd or of the flock like lambs, sheep, goats, etc.. (see Deu 14:23,26; 2Chr 31:6; Neh 10:37; Neh 13:5,12). The poor people that did not own any land could not tithe. When Peter caught 153 fishes (John 21:11), he owed nothing as tithe offering because it is the tithe of the land, not the sea.
                    2. Carpenters were not required to tithe 10% of their income. According to the law of Moses, money was not accepted by God as a tithe offering.
                    3. The Israelites had to give 10 % of their land products to the Levites because they did not have land as an inheritance, they had the Lord as their inheritance.
                    4. Tithing was also given to the poor and needy (widows, orphans, newcomers to the land). Tithing was part of Godís welfare program. (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). The poor did not give tithe, the poor received the tithe (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13). To ask the poor to tithe is exactly the opposite of what God established in His Word. See Appendix B for more information.
                    5. The tithing for the poor had to be placed at the entrance of the cities in Israel where the Levites and the poor will come to collect it (Deu 14:28-29). The Levites will then bring the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem.
                    6. The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,11,18; Deu 14:23).
                    7. If the Jews lived too far from Jerusalem, they were allowed to turn their agricultural products (their tithe) into money (to eliminate traveling with produce and animals). But once they arrived at Jerusalem, they had to turn the money into agricultural products before bringing the offering to God because God did not accept money as a tithing offering. The reason was so that the tithing offering could be eaten before the Lord in his Temple. (Deu 14:24-26).
                    8. Because they had to bring their tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem, God did not make it a burden to those living far away from Jerusalem, to travel every week or every month to bring the tithe. Instead, he told the Israelites that they had to bring their tithes once every 3 years. That year was called the year of tithing (see Deu 14:28; Deu 26:12; Amos 4:4).
                    9. If the people failed to bring in their tithes in the year of tithing, they were commanded by the law to bring them back the next year of tithing (3 years later) with 20 percent interest. To be financially accurate, twenty percent interest every 3 years translates to 6.3 % interest per year or 0.12 % interest per week. It is not 20% interest added the next Sunday after someone missed the offering.
                    10. The tithe or the 10th part of the agricultural products in Israel belonged to the Lord. It really belonged to him because man put the seed on the ground, but it was the Lord that made it grow. The Lord did most of the work. That is why he considered it robbery not to give Him his part. He had earned it. The Lord in turn, gave what belonged to him to the Levite and the poor. (Lev 27:30; Num 18:24; Deu 26:12; Neh 13:5; Mal 3:8-10).
                    11. The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th). If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).
                    12. The Law of God required the Levites to give a tenth of the tithes that they received back unto the Lord. (Num 18:26). This had to be the best of the tithe and the Levite had to give it to the priests that ministered in the Temple (for their consumption).

                    Because the Temple is no longer in place in Jerusalem and there are no Levites running a priesthood anymore, the laws connected with the Levitical priesthood and the Temple are no longer in effect. That is why the Jews do not kill a lamb during Passover, no one offers animals for sin offerings, there are no more animal sacrifices. Those laws are gone with the Temple and the priesthood. The law of tithing is part of that group. Rom 4:15; Rom 5:13 and 1 Jo 3:4 say that where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin cannot be inputted where there is no law. Because of that, since the Temple was destroyed and the Levitical priesthood disappeared, no one is robbing God of anything when people fail to bring their tithes (their agricultural products to the Levites in the Temple). Furthermore, Colossians 2:14 and Eph 2:15 reiterate that Jesus removed those laws when he was nailed to the cross.

                    Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

                    Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace.

                    The current law of tithing preached in todayís protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible. That is a commandment of man. God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men.

                    Furthermore, the NT giving is totally based on love. We give because we want to, not because we have to (big difference). We should give as we purposed in our hearts, not as the pastor purposed in his heart, but as we purposed in our hearts, not grudginly or OUT OF NECESSITY !!! for the Lord loves the cheerful giver.

                    Shalom
                    Yep . . . that ^^^ . . .



                    So, why is this being done?

                    Originally posted by Servant89 View Post
                    The current law of tithing preached in todayís protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible.
                    Grace and peace,

                    Billy-brown 2


                    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Servant89 View Post
                      ...

                      The current law of tithing preached in today’s protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible. That is a commandment of man. God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men.

                      Furthermore, the NT giving is totally based on love. We give because we want to, not because we have to (big difference). We should give as we purposed in our hearts, not as the pastor purposed in his heart, but as we purposed in our hearts, not grudginly or OUT OF NECESSITY !!! for the Lord loves the cheerful giver.

                      Shalom

                      A most excellent post.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You are right in saying that specifically 10% of your gross income is not overtly stated as a requirement in the New Testament; However, in 1st Corinthians 16:2, Paul states...

                        "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." (NIV)

                        Also, you are also right in saying that the law of tithing did apply to some very specific circumstances in the Old Testement. The verses Peter quoted to the people from Psalms (Psalms 69:25, 109:8) in regard to Judas (Acts 1:20) explicitly referred to David's enemies (Psalms 69:1-25, 109:1-8). Therefore, we must not become too stiff in assuming that Old Testement scriptures only apply to the Old Testement contexts in which they are spoken. Another good example of this is when Jesus was fasting in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan (Matthew 4: 1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13); when Satan tried convincing him to turn stones into bread, Jesus quoted part of Deuteronomy 8:3, even though that verse, in it's original context, did not refer to fasting; that verse was even enough to make Satan move on to another temptation, even though one might argue that it was quoted out of context if done so by anyone else in that situation.

                        Your tenth point is also void if you were using it to argue against tithing. You stated that the tenth part of the agricultural products belonged to the Lord, but if we as Christians proclaim that God is King over all the earth, doesn't he own everything anyway? (rhetorical question)

                        You are, however, absolutely correct in your final statement; NT giving is based totally in love, as is every 'commandment' given in the NT. Everything we do should be done out of love (agape), and if we do any of these things grudgingly or out of necessity, we are not right with God. A Pastor who preaches that we must give even if we don't want to is putting emphasis on the wrong idea, but just because we don't feel inclined to do something, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done at all, but rather it may mean that we need God to adjust our heart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Servant89 View Post
                          The current law of tithing preached in today’s protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible. That is a commandment of man.
                          Originally posted by billy-brown 2 View Post
                          So, why is this being done?

                          That is a very good question. Back in the mid 80's I tried to ask this very question of the pastor at the church (SBC) I was attending. The guy had recently been laying a lot of guilt on those in the church who did not "tithe". (This church had recently gotten themselves into a financial shortfall because of some mismanagement and they needed cash.) I got rather tired of the guilt trips, and after studying the topic, I realized he had no basis for trying to make “tithing” a compulsory part of the New Covenant. I went in with the teaching materials from a very well-known radio bible teacher who taught against the mandatory church tithe. So when I met this local pastor, I first explained to him what I had been reading, explained the biblical arguments against the tithe, and then I asked him for a counter-response to these biblical arguments. He refused to address those arguments in any way, and supplied no counter-arguments. In fact, it was apparent he didn't want any part of the conversation. Every question I had went unanswered. That was a real eye-opening experience for me. I could tell that I had put him on the spot, and that he knew he had no answer for these biblical arguments. I came away from that meeting with the realization that this local pastor was not free to search the scriptures; he had to adhere to the party line if he wanted to retain his position as a pastor in that denomination. I guess there comes a time in many person’s religious experience when they realize that politics plays a huge role in what goes on in church. That was one of those moments for me. It wasn’t the first, nor the most significant, but it was memorable nevertheless. After that meeting, I said to myself that I would never give up my allegiance to the pursuit of God’s truth (as this man had done) in order to advance or maintain myself in some man-made church organization. I might not know all things, but I will not knowingly play politics with the word of God.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billy-brown 2 View Post
                            Yep . . . that ^^^ . . . amen: So, why is this being done?
                            1 Cor 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

                            Shalom

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by didymus View Post
                              You are right in saying that specifically 10% of your gross income is not overtly stated as a requirement in the New Testament; However, in 1st Corinthians 16:2, Paul states...
                              "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." (NIV)
                              I know that is not an attempt to convince me I have to give 10%. Right?

                              Originally posted by didymus View Post
                              we must not become too stiff in assuming that Old Testement scriptures only apply to the Old Testement contexts in which they are spoken. .
                              Oh yes we have to !!!! Because God is stiff when it comes to tithing. The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,8,11,18; Deu 14:23).

                              DEU 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
                              23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
                              24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
                              25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

                              And God said he was very specific about doing it exactly like that and not to twist this commandment based on human reasoning (Deu 12:8,32).

                              Originally posted by didymus View Post
                              Your tenth point is also void if you were using it to argue against tithing. You stated that the tenth part of the agricultural products belonged to the Lord, but if we as Christians proclaim that God is King over all the earth, doesn't he own everything anyway? (rhetorical question)
                              Listen up!!! We can not give what does not belong to us. We are called to give as we purposed in our hearts because it is ours to give. The law of tithing demands a payment. People in the OT paid tithes, they did not give tithes because it did not belonged to them (God gave the increase of the agricultural products and as such, he did most of the work and the 10% belonged to him). We do not pay tithes, we give from what we own, as we purposed in our hearts.

                              Originally posted by didymus View Post
                              You are, however, absolutely correct in your final statement; NT giving is based totally in love, as is every 'commandment' given in the NT. Everything we do should be done out of love (agape), and if we do any of these things grudgingly or out of necessity, we are not right with God. A Pastor who preaches that we must give even if we don't want to is putting emphasis on the wrong idea, but just because we don't feel inclined to do something, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done at all, but rather it may mean that we need God to adjust our heart.
                              Amen!

                              Shalom

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