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  • Judging another believer

    Jas 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
    Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    Would appreciate some help to have a deeper understanding of these verses and the principles they're trying to teach.

    1) What exactly does "speak evil" encompass? Can any examples be given?

    2) What does "speaking against a brother" or "judge a brother" encompass? Can you give me some examples?

    3) My commentary says we're not to judge a brother's actions and motives, is that correct? Also, are we forbidden to judge the state of salvaiton of a professed "brother?"

    Thanks.
    Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
    Jas 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
    Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    Would appreciate some help to have a deeper understanding of these verses and the principles they're trying to teach.

    1) What exactly does "speak evil" encompass? Can any examples be given?

    2) What does "speaking against a brother" or "judge a brother" encompass? Can you give me some examples?

    3) My commentary says we're not to judge a brother's actions and motives, is that correct? Also, are we forbidden to judge the state of salvaiton of a professed "brother?"

    Thanks.
    We are to judge according to that by which we also shall be judged, the gospel of Christ.

    Jn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but Judge righteous judgment.

    Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    Firstfruits

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi FF,
      Thanks for the reply. I'm looking for practical day-to-day examples of how we're to obey these commands. I need an in-depth practical understanding of what we are not to do.
      Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
        Jas 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
        Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

        Would appreciate some help to have a deeper understanding of these verses and the principles they're trying to teach.

        1) What exactly does "speak evil" encompass? Can any examples be given?

        2) What does "speaking against a brother" or "judge a brother" encompass? Can you give me some examples?

        3) My commentary says we're not to judge a brother's actions and motives, is that correct? Also, are we forbidden to judge the state of salvaiton of a professed "brother?"

        Thanks.
        Hi ThyWordIsTruth...I think in order to understand fully what the bible is saying about this on judging other believers you need to consider all the passages on it. Clearly the bible does tell us to judge in certain situations...1 Corinthians 5 is a good example of one. But the one you posted says don't speak 'evil' about another Christian. Speaking evil about someone is just saying mean things...bad things about them. Its gossiping, slander, hateful speech which of course we are to avoid. Its not about rightly judging their sins like we see in 1 Corinthians 5.

        James goes along with what Christ said about hating a brother (another Christian).

        1 John 2:9
        If anyone claims, “I am living in the light,” but hates a Christian brother or sister, that person is still living in darkness.


        The 'judging' talked about in James is unfair judging..hypercritical judging..what Jesus talks about here:

        Matthew 7
        Do Not Judge Others
        “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. 2 For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.

        3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye


        Then we have the Godly righteous way of judging..

        Matthew 7

        15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


        The bible gives very clear guidelines on when and how to judge another Christian..its not to be done with evil intentions as James talks about...its not to be done in a 'holier then thou' type of way either.

        Hope this helps!

        God bless
        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
          Jas 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
          Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

          Would appreciate some help to have a deeper understanding of these verses and the principles they're trying to teach.

          1) What exactly does "speak evil" encompass? Can any examples be given?

          2) What does "speaking against a brother" or "judge a brother" encompass? Can you give me some examples?

          3) My commentary says we're not to judge a brother's actions and motives, is that correct? Also, are we forbidden to judge the state of salvaiton of a professed "brother?"

          Thanks.
          To the 3rd and maybe a little to the 2nd...
          11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
          12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

          This gets me in hot water with those non-christians who were raised in church. They know that the Bible says judge not let ye be judged. Then when I show them this passage they say I didn't know that was in there. Then I have come across many Christians who didn't know this either. Seems overlooked too often.

          Paul tells us that we are to judge those inside the church and if they are immoral do not even eat with them. I believe that it is for the purposes that Paul told Timothy...

          1 Timothy 5:20
          Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

          2 Timothy 4:2
          Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you.. hmm..so it would seem that we are called to judge. If we don't judge we won't know who the sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, slanderer, drunkards or swindlers are.

            I still need to internalize this to get a complete understanding. I'm always confused as to what kind of judging is right and what kind is wrong, which is why my request for practical everyday examples would help. I'm not very clear on where to draw that line.
            Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

            Comment


            • #7
              hey why are there so few responses to real needful bible questions but tons of responses in theological debate threads?? help!
              Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
                Thank you.. hmm..so it would seem that we are called to judge. If we don't judge we won't know who the sexually immoral, greedy, idolater, slanderer, drunkards or swindlers are.

                I still need to internalize this to get a complete understanding. I'm always confused as to what kind of judging is right and what kind is wrong, which is why my request for practical everyday examples would help. I'm not very clear on where to draw that line.
                I believe we judge those inside to expose sin and to correct. To many churches out there today will not make a stand on right and wrong. They stay away from any scripture that is controversial. Paul tells us to call a spade a spade. Also, in this same chapter of 1 Cor. 5 Paul tells them to hand a man over to Satan so that his soul may possibly be saved. This is punishment and correction at its core. We all need our toes stepped on from time to time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
                  hey why are there so few responses to real needful bible questions but tons of responses in theological debate threads?? help!
                  Usually I'm guilty of that myself but for some reason I found myself in this topic and thought I would give you my $.02.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Harsh Words!!!

                    This is how we are to deal with those that are contrary to the will of God even though they may claim to be of God.

                    2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

                    Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

                    Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

                    Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

                    Sorry for being so blunt with the scriptures, but that is what we are commanded.

                    God bless you!

                    Firstfruits

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
                      Jas 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
                      Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

                      Would appreciate some help to have a deeper understanding of these verses and the principles they're trying to teach.

                      1) What exactly does "speak evil" encompass? Can any examples be given?

                      2) What does "speaking against a brother" or "judge a brother" encompass? Can you give me some examples?

                      3) My commentary says we're not to judge a brother's actions and motives, is that correct? Also, are we forbidden to judge the state of salvaiton of a professed "brother?"

                      Thanks.
                      1) False report designed to tarnish their reputation
                      2) Judging means to form a harsh opinion without good evidence
                      3) Maybe, but we can know a tree by it's fruits.
                      "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


                      Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
                        I believe we judge those inside to expose sin and to correct. To many churches out there today will not make a stand on right and wrong. They stay away from any scripture that is controversial. Paul tells us to call a spade a spade. Also, in this same chapter of 1 Cor. 5 Paul tells them to hand a man over to Satan so that his soul may possibly be saved. This is punishment and correction at its core. We all need our toes stepped on from time to time.
                        I read up more on the net on this today, and we're told to correct with love, and always with a view of restoring the brother or sister to God.

                        One question I have is this: is it wrong to try to discern if a fellow church goer is or is not truly born again? Reason for this is to know so I can reach out and pray for him/her. But the commentary I was reading says we're not to judged other people's motives/actions/salvation because God is the judge.

                        I was thinking if I don't know, how could I pray for this person, or try to encourage them to the right path?
                        Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi FF,

                          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                          This is how we are to deal with those that are contrary to the will of God even though they may claim to be of God.

                          2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
                          I believe this was Paul's instructions to Timothy and pastors, not all believers?

                          Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
                          This is actually an instruction for a pastor I think. I don't know if all believers are to do this. And this is speaking of people who teach doctrines contrary to that handed down by Christ and the apostles, teaching deviant doctrines, not fellow brothers/sisters I think.

                          Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

                          Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

                          Sorry for being so blunt with the scriptures, but that is what we are commanded.

                          God bless you!

                          Firstfruits
                          Similarly these are also instructions to a pastor, Tit 2:15 is particularly instructions to Timothy a young pastor, who had older people in his congregation who were perhaps not giving him the due respect as their under-shepherd.
                          Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gilligan View Post
                            1) False report designed to tarnish their reputation
                            2) Judging means to form a harsh opinion without good evidence
                            3) Maybe, but we can know a tree by it's fruits.
                            thank you, very helpful. however for (1) let's say it's something true about a brother/sister, are we even allowed to talk about their behaviour or whatever in private with someone else?
                            Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lev 19:15-18 is a likely source of the teaching on judging others.

                              We are not to be a talebearer or a gossip among the people.

                              We do not provoke confrontation with or neighbor.

                              We do not wish our neighbor dead.

                              We do not seek revenge against our neighbor.

                              For the cause of Christ
                              Roger

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