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  • Covenant with Adam

    Hosea 6.7: But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.
    What "covenant" did God and Adam have?
    To This Day

  • #2
    I think a basic covenant of not eating of the tree, I think.

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    • #3
      So, simple obedience to that one command?
      To This Day

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      • #4
        Yes, I believe so. That's the only thing I can think of

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        • #5
          Here's the thing I'm wondering about:

          Adam had access to everlasting life (i.e. the tree of life). If the "covenant" between God and Adam consisted of Adam performing a certain work (i.e. don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), then his access to everlasting life was contingent upon his ability to follow that commandment... which is the opposite of what we have been taught in the New Testament.
          To This Day

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          • #6
            Yes I can see quite the dilemma. The only thing I could think of are two possibilities the first is that God knew that even with such a simple thing we still couldn't do what He required or else that we misunderstood what was our requirement in the NT Of course I could be wrong altogether too

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            • #7
              Originally posted by markedward View Post
              Here's the thing I'm wondering about:

              Adam had access to everlasting life (i.e. the tree of life). If the "covenant" between God and Adam consisted of Adam performing a certain work (i.e. don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), then his access to everlasting life was contingent upon his ability to follow that commandment... which is the opposite of what we have been taught in the New Testament.
              I believe Adam was given a choice. God told Adam he could eat freely of every tree in the garden which included the tree of life. Unfortunately Adam made the wrong choice and ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil rather than the tree of life which God gave him freely to eat and prompted him to eat of. I believe God's covenant with Adam, and every man after him is everlasting life through Jesus Christ.

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              • #8
                Interesting verse in that it is one of those that is translated very differently in some Bibles.

                KJV: But they like men have transgressed the covenant
                MKJV: But, like Adam, they have broken the covenant
                NET: At Adam they broke the covenant

                The NET has this footnote regarding the translation of Adam. It could be a city (see Jos 3:16), or "like sinful men".

                Or "Like Adam"; or "Like [sinful] men." The Masoretic Text (MT) reads כְּאָדָם (ke'adam, "like Adam" or "as [sinful] men"); however, the editors of BHS suggest this reflects an orthographic confusion of בְּאָדָם (be'adam, "at Adam"), as suggested by the locative adverb שָׁם (sham, "there") in the following line. However, שָׁם sometimes functions in a nonlocative sense similar to the deictic particle הִנֵּה (hinneh, "Behold!"). The singular noun אָדָם ('adam) has been taken in several different ways: (1) proper name: "like Adam" (כְּאָדָם), (2) collective singular: "like [sinful] men" (כְּאָדָם), (3) proper location: "at Adam," referring to a city in the Jordan Valley (Jos_3:16), emending comparative כְּ (kaf) to locative בְּ (bet, "at"): "at Adam" (בְּאָדָם). BDB 9 s.v. אָדָם 2 suggests the collective sense, referring to sinful men (Num_5:6; 1Ki_8:46; 2Ch_6:36; Jer_10:14; Job_31:33; Hos_6:7). The English versions are divided: KJV margin, ASV, RSV margin, NASB, NIV, TEV margin, NLT "like Adam"; RSV, NRSV, TEV "at Adam"; KJV "like men."

                The idea it is a city seems weak to me because as far as we know, nothing special happened there to reference it here. But it is correct that English versions are divided.
                In Christ,

                -- Rev

                “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by RevLogos View Post
                  KJV: But they like men have transgressed the covenant
                  I agree regarding the city being a weak interpretation. This one, however, also seems to be a weak translation; it's too vague to be helpful to Hosea's case. Why make a simile to such a generalized subject?
                  To This Day

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                  • #10
                    As for a covenant, it seems to be wrapped up in these three verses:

                    Gen 2:15 And Jehovah God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
                    Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, You may freely eat of every tree in the garden,
                    Gen 2:17 but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.


                    So in 2:15 Adam is to work it, to be a steward of it. Just as we are today.
                    In 2:16-17 Adam is told not to eat from the tree of TKOGAE, but nothing about the tree of life. Later when banished from Eden, the whirling flaming sword guards the tree of life. This implies to me that Adam and Eve would have lived forever, so that eating from the Tree of Life wouldn't do anything. But they were told they would die of they ate from the other.

                    There is also a command earlier in Chapter 1:

                    Gen 1:28 And God blessed them [humans]. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth.

                    This implies to me that Eden couldn't be just an orchid in the East, but had to be the entire world. Doesn't it?
                    In Christ,

                    -- Rev

                    “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RevLogos
                      This implies to me that Adam and Eve would have lived forever, so that eating from the Tree of Life wouldn't do anything.
                      Then... why was the tree of life in the garden if it was of no benefit to an already-everlasting Adam and Eve, and why does God explicitly say that Adam and Eve were cut off from the tree so that they couldn't eat of it and live forever?

                      This implies to me that Eden couldn't be just an orchid in the East, but had to be the entire world. Doesn't it?
                      Wherever Eden was, Genesis 2 says that the garden itself was on the east side of that region... and it also refers to several other regions apart from Eden.
                      To This Day

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by markedward View Post
                        Then... why was the tree of life in the garden if it was of no benefit to an already-everlasting Adam and Eve, and why does God explicitly say that Adam and Eve were cut off from the tree so that they couldn't eat of it and live forever?
                        The answer would have to be in 3:22. We would become like a god, but without the maturity to chose what is good and right.

                        Originally posted by markedward View Post
                        Wherever Eden was, Genesis 2 says that the garden itself was on the east side of that region... and it also refers to several other regions apart from Eden.
                        Yes. Puzzling. Verse 1:28 seems more suitable for the post-fallen world. There is quite a bit of overlap between the latter Chapter 2 and Chapter 3.
                        In Christ,

                        -- Rev

                        “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by markedward View Post
                          I agree regarding the city being a weak interpretation. This one, however, also seems to be a weak translation; it's too vague to be helpful to Hosea's case. Why make a simile to such a generalized subject?
                          To me it suggests what other scripture sugests. That all have sinned and fallen short. All being -all in Adam -man.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by newinchrist4now View Post
                            I think a basic covenant of not eating of the tree, I think.
                            Where's the sacrifice - blood?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by markedward View Post
                              Here's the thing I'm wondering about:

                              Adam had access to everlasting life (i.e. the tree of life). If the "covenant" between God and Adam consisted of Adam performing a certain work (i.e. don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), then his access to everlasting life was contingent upon his ability to follow that commandment... which is the opposite of what we have been taught in the New Testament.
                              But the NT doesn't teach that we are unable to floow the commands. It teaches that we cannot be justified by obeying the Law.
                              “You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.”

                              Charles G Finney



                              http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

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