Discussion Why do you hold to OSAS or NOSAS?

[BadDog]

Why do you hold to OSAS or NOSAS? This is a discussion-only thread, because I am trying to do something a little different for the "eternal security" issue.

• I think that those who old to NOSAS don't really understand WHY OSAS adherents believe the way they do.
• I think that those who old to OSAS don't really understand WHY NOSAS adherents believe the way they do.
• I think that there are several versions of NOSAS, and NOSAS adherents don't understand why others who believe differently about NOSAS believe the way they do.
• I think that there are several versions of OSAS, and OSAS adherents don't understand why others who believe differently about OSAS believe the way they do.

So I would like people to share WHY they hold to OSAS or NOSAS. I don't want us to support our position at all. I just want us to have an opportunity to share WHY we believe the way we do. Let me give an example. I hold to OSAS. I do so mainly because I think NOSAS does damage to the character of God. I also am concerned about how the gospel is distorted IMO from grace to works. So there are some versions of NOSAS for which I have much more tolerance, such as those who say that we can choose to stop following the Lord or we may stop believing. You may know some who have apparently done one or the other.

Now, let's not just say, "Because the Bible teaches NOSAS or OSAS." You see, we all have a basic systematic theology, and our position with OSAS/NOSAS comes from that.

May I also suggest that in the Title-bar that we write either OSAS or NOSAS? Because of the nature of this discussion-oriented thread, I am going to stop following this thread after about a week. Otherwise, we'll gravitate toward debating, and that's not the purpose of this thread. I am hoping that we will each take the time to carefully read the comments of others on both sides of this issue. Perhaps we'll understand the other side, as well as our own side, better.

Thx,

BD

[Slug1]

I hold to NOSAS because we are constantly warned throughout the NT about enduring to the end, overcoming, about falling away, being taken away, being cut down, being burned up, being withered, about fruit production, that faith can be dead, about roots among stony places, about roots in the thorns, repent, repent, repent, repent, repent... If it was OSAS, then there would be no need for all this warning once a relationship with Christ is begun.

[BadDog]

Thx slug1. I suppose that's similar to why I have an issue with the Reformed theology position of election with no opportunity for free will (I hold to both). Why so many appeals to respond to the gospel otherwise?

Thx,

BD

[losthorizon]

I hold to NOSAS because we are constantly warned throughout the NT about enduring to the end, overcoming, about falling away, being taken away, being cut down, being burned up, being withered, about fruit production, that faith can be dead, about roots among stony places, about roots in the thorns, repent, repent, repent, repent, repent... If it was OSAS, then there would be no need for all this warning once a relationship with Christ is begun.

It doesn't get any clearer than this - thanks brother.

[Slug1]

It doesn't get any clearer than this - thanks brother.

All in one breath also

[GitRDunn]

I see many people use the abbreviations OSAS and NOSAS, but could someone explain what those acronymns actually stand for? I'm not talking what each side believes, just the literal words they stand for.

[-SEEKING-]

Once Saved Always Saved, and I guess Not Once Saved Always Saved.

[crossnote]

It boils down to..
1. Are we saved by our faith as Slug1 illustrated
or
2. Are we saved by God's grace as the Reformers stated 'We are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ alone"

Point one makes faith the determining factor;
Point two God's grace.

To remove all boasting I opt for two.
I prefer to call it OTSAS (Once Truly Saved Always Saved).

[2 Peter 2:20]

It boils down to..
1. Are we saved by our faith as Slug1 illustrated
or
2. Are we saved by God's grace as the Reformers stated 'We are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ alone"

Point one makes faith the determining factor;
Point two God's grace.

To remove all boasting I opt for two.
I prefer to call it OTSAS (Once Truly Saved Always Saved).

So you must believe that there would be a OFSNAS (Once Falsely Saved Not Always Saved) scenario as well?

[2 Peter 2:20]

I hold to NOSAS because we are constantly warned throughout the NT about enduring to the end, overcoming, about falling away, being taken away, being cut down, being burned up, being withered, about fruit production, that faith can be dead, about roots among stony places, about roots in the thorns, repent, repent, repent, repent, repent... If it was OSAS, then there would be no need for all this warning once a relationship with Christ is begun.

Agreed!!! Wouldn't need much more than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John if the other were the case. Wasted words on the page for the rest. I know it's crude but it's true.

[Slug1]

I prefer to call it OTSAS (Once Truly Saved Always Saved).

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The scripture doesn't say, the "true" children of God.

Yet we are still warned... look at all the scriptures about those who are warned. The endurance and overcoming, faith is dead warnings aren't for those who are lost or for those who are false... the warnings are for those "in Christ".

The Bible never addresses those who are "Truly Saved." You either are or aren't and all these specific warnings are for those who are "saved"... to hold on, endure and overcome to the very end of physical life. If you are not saved... the Bible leads those seeking to learn about and meet God.

Of course those not saved have their own specific warnings... but all other warnings are for those who are saved... there is not a "truly saved" Christian and for them, there will be no warnings except maybe to be patient for death of the physical body... common... there is no such concept as the "truly" saved Christian. You either are saved or you are not.

There are false Christians and the warnings are for "saved" Christians to beware and that we'll know them by their fruit, to test the spirits and we have access to the Gft of Discernment to help ID what is false (of satan). Those who are false fall in with all the warnings for the lost even though they don't know this due to the decipt upon them... sad.

No where in the Bible will you find scripture addressing those who are "truly saved", compared to those who are "saved" compared to those who are "not saved".

Already, you tossed in the classic "not really saved" OSAS Card... no matter how disquised. Sorry... take the card back, it don't work. It's about as effective as the "not really pregnant" card.

[Redeemed by Grace]

The better point is 'are you saved and why you say you are saved'?

For me the point is neither OSAS or NOSAS, the point is are you saved and why you say you are saved? If one declares it is all God’s work, as I see what all of scriptures say, then all the warnings towards watching, working, enduring are also God breathed and guided by God to walking in faith. For a man’s salvation is for God, of God, by God, in God, through God and because of God least any man should boast.

If the focal point is towards the scriptures that points to man’s activity, then man being imperfect, can make decisions based on one thing one day another thing the next, so there is always the chance of uncertainty or even false assurance of being faithful enough, obedient enough, good enough, and the judgment becomes self-evident and not God focused.

So to all of scripture, whereas the sum of the word is truth, when we read that nothing can separate us from the Love of God --- with 'work out your salvation in fear and trembling…' compared together, the antimony melts away when we see that the Bible is both an open and closed book, that the Gospel is declared wide open and the Bible is also written only for those who believe.

So the core question is, “am I one who believes and then why and how do I know that I am a real Believer and Christ lives within me and I in Him?” So God's sheep are God's sheep... so ' am I one within His flock?'

[CaptainM]

You all are funny!

So you must believe that there would be a OFSNAS (Once Falsely Saved Not Always Saved) scenario as well?

How about WOYSWFAT? Work Out Your Salvation With Fear And Trembling! Whatcha got to say to that? :LAUGHING:

[Slug1]

You all are funny!



How about WOYSWFAT? Work Out Your Salvation With Fear And Trembling! Whatcha got to say to that? :LAUGHING:

Oh man... I forgot that one in my first reply...

Must be worked out...

[HisLeast]

NOSAS... kinda

Prior to a few months ago, I found the OSAS/NOSAS dialog to be a red herring. From my perspective one needed to assume knowledge of someone's salvation state in life AND after death in order to support either system of thought. Since this information isn't available to us, it seemed moot to me. At best it couldn't be verified, and at worst the two systems were saying the exact same thing but with different language.

Fast forward a few months and I'm leaning towards NOSAS. This has come from simple observation of my own life. There were times when I was both certain and concrete on what I believed. Today, after realizing none of it makes sense, and how hopeless the search for answers is, there is no more conviction nor certainty. If I can go from conviction to contempt in one year, then certainly anyone else could.

To that extent, NOSAS must be true if we assume that I have lost faith. Of course that I'm damned upon death, which requires the assumption of information we don't have. And gosh darn it, now we're back to where we started from!