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  • Works Do Save Us

    I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

    Can anyone help clear this up?

  • #2
    We are not saved by works. But we are judged according to our works. The unsaved are punished according to their wickedness; the saved are rewarded according to their righteousness.
    To This Day

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    • #3
      Getting judged determines our saved or lost condition.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
        I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

        Can anyone help clear this up?
        What exactly is it you would like cleared up?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
          I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

          Can anyone help clear this up?
          Well, no that's a roman Catholic belief. Are you an RC

          The example of Nicodemous is a good one. Jesus was clar to this rich man that he had to be born again.

          We are not saved from our good works but being saved produces good works. It's a fruit of being saved
          Amazzin

          Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

          CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
            I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

            Can anyone help clear this up?
            Go back to the scripture you cited - Ephesians 2:8-9

            "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

            Now go back and include the very next verse - verse 10.

            "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

            As saved people, we will do good works not to BE saved, but because we ARE saved. God has little things and big things that he requires of us as Christians. Work - which God prepared in advance for us to do after we are saved.
            sigpic
            ".....it's your nickel"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by amazzin View Post
              Well, no that's a roman Catholic belief. Are you an RC

              The example of Nicodemous is a good one. Jesus was clar to this rich man that he had to be born again.

              We are not saved from our good works but being saved produces good works. It's a fruit of being saved
              I'm not RC and I believe one must have works to be saved.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
                Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

                Can anyone help clear this up?
                The rich man went to hell according to Luke 16:30 because he was unrepentant.

                And he pleaded for someone to go and tell his brothers and warn them to repent so that they would not end up in hell also.

                He never asked to leave hell and he never claimed that he ended up there unjustly. He knew that repentance was necessary and that he had not done it and that his brothers needed it.

                The rich man was not in hell because of bad works.
                sigpic
                ".....it's your nickel"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                  I'm not RC and I believe one must have works to be saved.
                  If you are making reference to James 2:20 - "Faith without works is dead", then you are partially correct.

                  James 2:20 is the natural extension of Ephesians 2:8-10.

                  A Christian will be in obedience to God and instinctively and willingly perform the works that God has for him to do. That is evidence of his faith.

                  The works don't save him, but a saved person will work for the LORD.
                  sigpic
                  ".....it's your nickel"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Butch5 View Post
                    I'm not RC and I believe one must have works to be saved.
                    That question was not for you Butch
                    Amazzin

                    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                      That question was not for you Butch
                      I was pointing out that it is not just a Catholic belief. Actually it was the church's belief until the 1500"s
                      Last edited by Butch5; Jun 20th 2010, 11:35 AM. Reason: Spelling

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jayne View Post
                        If you are making reference to James 2:20 - "Faith without works is dead", then you are partially correct.

                        James 2:20 is the natural extension of Ephesians 2:8-10.

                        A Christian will be in obedience to God and instinctively and willingly perform the works that God has for him to do. That is evidence of his faith.

                        The works don't save him, but a saved person will work for the LORD.




                        James makes it clear that works are an essential part of faith and without them faith is dead. James says that Abraham's faith worked "WITH" his works and "Together" faith was made complete. He also said that faith without works is dead. He asks the rhetorical question can that faith save him? The obvious answer is no. So, if order for faith to save it must be a living faith or a complete faith. Well, James tells us what makes a complete faith, and that is a man's faith and works working together. So, the question is, if works are needed to complete faith in order to make saving faith, how can works be the product of faith? In other words, how can faith produce works when faith needs works in order to produce anything?

                        You see, his point is that it is faith and works that produce saving faith. So, this would imply that works are necessary in order to be saved. This is exactly what Jesus, Paul and James all indicate.

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                        • #13
                          We are saved for good works not by good works.

                          For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
                          Not of works, lest any man should boast.
                          (Ephesians 2:8-9)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
                            I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

                            Can anyone help clear this up?
                            Hi Sherry,

                            The basic idea in Matthew 25:31-46 is one of separation not salvation. The sheep are not saved by the works of love and mercy we find listed. Rather, those works are used to distinguish the sheep from the goats or believers from unbelievers and false professors. In other words, those marked by works of love and mercy are demonstrated to be the children of God. Those who are loveless and merciless are demonstrated to be the enemies of God.

                            . . .for the tree is known by its fruit. Matt. 12:33

                            You also mentioned Luke 16. While it is true that the rich man demonstrated his sinfulness by being loveless and merciless toward Lazarus, that's not why he was ultimately condemned. The rich man was condemned for rejecting the light of the Gospel given to him through Moses and the Prophets.

                            Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--
                            Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers--so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
                            Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
                            Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
                            Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
                            In His Service,

                            Nomad

                            Got questions about Reformed theology? Want solid Biblical answers without all of the usual nastiness, mud slinging and straw-man portraits of Reformed Theology found in public forums? Then ask a Calvinist.

                            Ask a Calvinist

                            http://abidingtruth.wordpress.com/

                            Warranted Faith - Reformed Apologetics & Theology

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sherry W View Post
                              I know most will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 to say we are saved by grace alone, not works. But Matthew 25 says the sheep go to Heaven for doing good works, and the goats go to Hell for not doing them. Luke 16 says the Rich Man went to Hell for not helping Lazarus.

                              Can anyone help clear this up?
                              My friend, faith and works go together.

                              If you are a professed Christian and a poor man asks you to help him and you do not: is that counted against you? Yes, because we are to feed the hungry and dress the unclothed. If you are not a professed Christian and a poor man asks for your help and you help him: how does that count toward your blessings from God?

                              It's simple. If you believe that Jesus in the Son of God, what good does it do if you don't not help His children? If you help someone yet say that God does not exist, then you are "being a good person" but have no faith. Therefore you MUST have faith and good works.

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