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  • State of Body Today (pulled from Turn Or Burn thread)

    Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
    Your end reasoning... I don't disagree with at all.
    Well the rest is just speculation anyway. I'm not saying the rest is fact at all. But my end reasoning is based on scripture. I just think that when the honey is flowing and the milk is churning, people as a whole tend to forget about where they come from or what God brought them out of. We grow complacent, selfish, and arrogant. I believe we live in that kind of generation, or at least that is the kind of generation that is being raised up today. We lived in a spoiled generation. What happens when all of that comes crashing down. What happens when civilization falls apart. Who do they turn to? What do you think Peter? It is only speculation, but I would like to know your opinion on the church and where it is currently headed.

  • #2
    Re: Turn Or Burn?

    Originally posted by Bruthaman View Post
    Well the rest is just speculation anyway. I'm not saying the rest is fact at all. But my end reasoning is based on scripture. I just think that when the honey is flowing and the milk is churning, people as a whole tend to forget about where they come from or what God brought them out of. We grow complacent, selfish, and arrogant. I believe we live in that kind of generation, or at least that is the kind of generation that is being raised up today. We lived in a spoiled generation. What happens when all of that comes crashing down. What happens when civilization falls apart. Who do they turn to? What do you think Peter? It is only speculation, but I would like to know your opinion on the church and where it is currently headed.
    I'd hate to see a derail. Maybe a topic for a new thread. This is an area I love and would love to share my experiences.
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Turn Or Burn?

      Originally posted by Bruthaman View Post
      Well the rest is just speculation anyway. I'm not saying the rest is fact at all. But my end reasoning is based on scripture. I just think that when the honey is flowing and the milk is churning, people as a whole tend to forget about where they come from or what God brought them out of. We grow complacent, selfish, and arrogant. I believe we live in that kind of generation, or at least that is the kind of generation that is being raised up today. We lived in a spoiled generation. What happens when all of that comes crashing down. What happens when civilization falls apart. Who do they turn to? What do you think Peter? It is only speculation, but I would like to know your opinion on the church and where it is currently headed.
      Let's put it this way. I asked the church tonight... How many of you, looking around at what's going on around us, truly believe that the return of the Lord is very, very near and judgment on this world is certain... as in I'm likely going to see it happen? Every hand in the church went up. I then explained to them that I agree... but the rub is this. Before God judges this world... He will first judge His own house. The church. as it stands today and as a whole, will be judged and found seriously wanting. I was speaking primarily of Western Churches. We like to thank God that we're not like those third world nations... soon, those 3rd world nations will thank God they weren't like the western nations.

      When it does come crashing down... we won't handle it well at all. We love our stuff too much... we'll be lost without it. We'll pine away over it... complain like the children of Israel and ultimately... many will simply curse God and die. Sadly... I figure that is how it will be and it is heart breaking.


      Visit our new website
      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

      A.W. Tozer said,
      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Turn Or Burn?

        Maybe not a bad idea... I can do some moving if I can remember how!


        Visit our new website
        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

        A.W. Tozer said,
        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Turn Or Burn?

          Okay... I actually remembered! Share away!

          And folks... let's not use this to bash the church. It's still the body of Christ even though it's in a mess. I don't want to hamstring folks making it where they have to be so guarded they can't speak freely. Say what you say in love and again remember... it's the body of Christ and not something we just rag for giggles. It's a serious matter.


          Visit our new website
          ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

          A.W. Tozer said,
          "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

          GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Turn Or Burn?

            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
            Let's put it this way. I asked the church tonight... How many of you, looking around at what's going on around us, truly believe that the return of the Lord is very, very near and judgment on this world is certain... as in I'm likely going to see it happen? Every hand in the church went up. I then explained to them that I agree... but the rub is this. Before God judges this world... He will first judge His own house. The church. as it stands today and as a whole, will be judged and found seriously wanting. I was speaking primarily of Western Churches. We like to thank God that we're not like those third world nations... soon, those 3rd world nations will thank God they weren't like the western nations.

            When it does come crashing down... we won't handle it well at all. We love our stuff too much... we'll be lost without it. We'll pine away over it... complain like the children of Israel and ultimately... many will simply curse God and die. Sadly... I figure that is how it will be and it is heart breaking.
            Dang, I knew you' drag me into this screaming!!!!

            The church! as a pastor with over 35 years of offical church minstry can say is damed. The church, as we see it today, is no different than the children of Israel that as long as there were miracles and manifestations they were happy. They pat themselves on the way out and say "wasn't that a great service"? Rather then staying behind all night in repentence for being found lacking. I'm not against a Holy Spirit filled altar time but alas its become the norm and true repentence the exception. It all production, copy cat TBN preaching and self anointed. The church today is a "whore" and when judgement comes the persecuted church will get the exalted positions and the western church will be found wanting.

            Now excuse me, I think I just busted the soap box. I need to repair it for round 2
            Amazzin

            Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

            CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Turn Or Burn?

              Now I am not a pastor, but I played one in a dream once so I must be qualified to have an opinion (just a little joke to lighten the mood). I agree with both ProjectPeter and Amazzin here. I think the church today is more concerned about stuff and how long it takes to get something done than we are about the souls affected by what we do. If we look at what just the apostle Paul went through for the cause of Christ I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that most people would have abandoned the faith. Not many people today would be willing to even sacrifice most of their possessions for the faith let alone their safety or health.

              Most people today have conditional love for conditional grace from God. What I mean by that is most will except God's grace, but it has to be on their terms and thus makes it conditional. This is not just the fault of the pastors or evangelists, it's the fault of every Christian who claims the badge. We the everyday Christians probably have the most fault because we don't have any backbone to stand up to our friends about the way they act. It is a sad story and sadly it will only change after the judgment starts.
              I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
              Have you laid your burdens down?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Turn Or Burn?

                Originally posted by TrustingFollower View Post
                Now I am not a pastor, but I played one in a dream once so I must be qualified to have an opinion (just a little joke to lighten the mood). I agree with both ProjectPeter and Amazzin here. I think the church today is more concerned about stuff and how long it takes to get something done than we are about the souls affected by what we do. If we look at what just the apostle Paul went through for the cause of Christ I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that most people would have abandoned the faith. Not many people today would be willing to even sacrifice most of their possessions for the faith let alone their safety or health.

                Most people today have conditional love for conditional grace from God. What I mean by that is most will except God's grace, but it has to be on their terms and thus makes it conditional. This is not just the fault of the pastors or evangelists, it's the fault of every Christian who claims the badge. We the everyday Christians probably have the most fault because we don't have any backbone to stand up to our friends about the way they act. It is a sad story and sadly it will only change after the judgment starts.
                I agree with the sentiments presented (For the most part) thus far. The church, and those who represent the church aren't going to like the judgment when Christ returns. Yes, I am one who believes it will be very soon. While most believe they will escape the great tribulation, the truth is that their very beliefs are going to be challenged to such a degree that they will be hard pressed to accept the coming Christ and the judgment he passes on the church body.

                All religions are false (Including Christianity as it is practiced today). Yes, Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, but there are many falsehoods being perpetrated by our religious leaders, and the flock have embraced them hook, line, and sinker. Scripture tells us that 'many' are called, but 'few' are chosen after all, and at His return He will seperate the sheep from the goats. The sheep (Gods children) will be blessed and they will inherit the kingdom, while the goats (Children of the devil) will face a great infliction (Torment) during this time of tribulation. Christianity as practiced today by 'most' Christians is false, and this false religion will face the great tribulation at His return. Christianity was never meant to be a religion, but rather a way of life (Demonstrated by Jesus).

                Bear with me for a moment ....

                If God is love, and God is also Spirit, and the Spirit is truth, then isn't it the Spirit of love (God) that we ought to be honoring? Jesus did, so why not us? He did show us how to live [for] God after all, just as He showed us the importance of living [for] others. We do so by submitting to God, who is our true "Father".

                Why then did Jesus suggest that the Scribes and Pharisees father was the devil? We cannot serve two masters and expect to stand, nor are we to be "luke warm". We pay homage to the 'force' we desire most (Good "God" or evil "Devil") whereby we (By our own desires) become the children thereof, which is why Jesus was so hard on the Scribes and Pharisees.

                They were extremely religious (As are many) but the truth was not in them because their father was the devil (Evil) and he was a liar, and murderer from the 'beginning'. Liar meaning one whom lies against the truth, which is to say against the Spirit (Love), which is the "truth" the NT scriptures speaks of.

                Jesus spoke the truth, yet they (And many still) rejected it (Love) in favor of evil. God is love, and it is only through His Spirit that any of us have any hope at all. We are called to worship (Honor) God in Spirit and in truth, and forsake our vain idols (False gods) in favor of the one "True" God who is love.

                All religions are false. There is but one truth and that truth is "love", and the only moral standard that we (Mankind) are expected to utilize and live through in our daily lives. Love is our moral compass, and the only "moral" standard able to govern our ethical behavior (For all time).

                What it comes down to is our desires. Do we desire "Love or Lust"/"Good or Evil"/"God or Devil". Both forces certainly exist, and it is through us that one or the other rules on earth. We are the vessels through which these forces operate, and it is through our actions that they are released upon mankind.

                In the end (If we want to be counted among the sheep) we must desire, and then live through Gods Spirit (Love) above the (Lusts) of our flesh.

                "Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord. But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death." Prov 8:32-36 (KJV)

                Does wisdom not cry out? Is it not obvious that the Spirit (Love) is in opposition to our flesh (Lusts), and that those who find love find life, whereby we obtain favor of the Lord? And likewise, is it not obvious that he who sins against love wrongs his own soul? God [is] love, and in His love is wisdom, and those who hate wisdom love death.

                "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew." Prov 3:13-20 (KJV)

                God is love, His love is wisdom, and His wisdom is a tree of life. Gods Spirit (Love) leads us into all truth, while the lusts of our flesh lead us to destruction. It is a battle between two opposing forces (Good "God" and Evil "Devil). Anything that is opposition to God (Who is love) is evil, and of the devil, stemming from the lusts of our (Mankinds) hearts.

                James

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Turn Or Burn?

                  I think the true church is flourishing, that Jesus is building it upon the rock of the revelation of his Deity, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

                  I also believe that millions that sit in pews and stand behind pulpits each Sunday will be sadly, tragically shocked when they assume room temperature to find that they had a great religion and no relationship.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Turn Or Burn?

                    Ah... this must be the "hope" talked about in 1 Peter 3:15.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Turn Or Burn?

                      Originally posted by TrustingFollower View Post
                      I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts
                      Over the last two weeks I have seen this said in multiple posts. Where are these said doughnuts.....and is there coffee too?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Turn Or Burn?

                        Originally posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
                        Over the last two weeks I have seen this said in multiple posts. Where are these said doughnuts.....and is there coffee too?
                        The expression means that you are willing to bet your own money (dollars) against something totally useless (donuts) in a wager. It means you're so certain of your wager you don't require the other party to reciprocate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Turn Or Burn?

                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          The expression means that you are willing to bet your own money (dollars) against something totally useless (donuts) in a wager. It means you're so certain of your wager you don't require the other party to wager.

                          I know....oops, I forgot to put a

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Turn Or Burn?

                            Originally posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
                            Over the last two weeks I have seen this said in multiple posts. Where are these said doughnuts.....and is there coffee too?
                            You don't want to go there. Stand down!!!!!
                            Amazzin

                            Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                            CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Turn Or Burn?

                              Rabiknife wrote:

                              I think the true church is flourishing, that Jesus is building it upon the rock of the revelation of his Deity, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

                              I also believe that millions that sit in pews and stand behind pulpits each Sunday will be sadly, tragically shocked when they assume room temperature to find that they had a great religion and no relationship.

                              -----------------------------------------------------

                              I agree.

                              The body is just fine. The ones who had a spiritual, supernatural, Holy Spirit filling, believing the deity of Christ, Repenting change into a new being ones that is. And by their fruits you will know them.


                              Its the pseudo Christians and pseudo pastors that are in a sad state.

                              Its the cowards who want Christ on their own terms that congregate with other people just like them to listen to people just like them preach and that are afraid to offend people by actually living the word of God.

                              The ones who say they believe in the deity of Christ, have read and heard the truth and that he is the light of the world and that no man comes to the Father and into heaven except through him and yet still want to look at scripture and their salvation as a smorgasbord and pick out only what they deem the good things and leave behind the things that can't bear to change or live without.

                              The ones who don't really love the truth but instead just want to be comforted and appeased in what they call their life but is really their death.
                              Day by day
                              Oh Dear Lord
                              Three things I pray
                              To see thee more clearly
                              Love thee more dearly
                              Follow thee more nearly
                              Day by day

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