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Spiritual death, or real life death?

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  • Spiritual death, or real life death?

    So what's the census on the Genesis verse... And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die” (Gen 2:16,17).. was Adam and Eve doomed a spiritual death or were they meant to live with God forever on earth? Did their sin cause what we know today as bodily death? or was this reference to a spiritual death? or both?
    Last edited by -SEEKING-; Aug 26th 2010, 01:07 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

    I think it sheds light to show the accurate rendition as "on the day you eat, you shall die". If a day = 1,000 years like the NT says, and Adam died before reaching 1,000 years, that would be the literal death and it will be in line with Scriptures. Where is the verse that states that they died spiritually when they ate the fruit? There are two things that changed when they ate the fruit:

    1. They realized they were naked.
    2. The got knowledge of good and evil.

    But when we are born, none of us comes to this planet with either one of those two changes. Todlers are not aware they are naked and the word of God states children have no knowledge of good or evil.

    Deut 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    So, the idea that we inherited original sin is not reflected in those two changes nor is it in line with Scripture.

    Deut 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

    Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    Shalom

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

      Plants died in the garden, so the "end of existence of a lifeform" was certainly in the Garden.

      I think it is referring to spiritual death, although any conjecture about the physical death aspect would be purely a guess.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

        Originally posted by Bammey View Post
        So what's the census on the Genesis verse... And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die” (Gen 2:16,17).. was Adam and Eve doomed a spiritual death or were they meant to live with God forever on earth? Did their sin cause what we know today as bodily death? or was this reference to a spiritual death? or both?
        Physical Death, without a doubt.
        "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
        Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
        ... there are few who find it."


        -----------------------------------------------

        * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

        The New American Standard Bible®,
        Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
        1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
        Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

        Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

          Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
          Physical Death, without a doubt.
          Romans was indicate otherwise.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

            Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
            Romans was indicate otherwise.
            Did Adam and Eve die?
            "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
            Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
            ... there are few who find it."


            -----------------------------------------------

            * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

            The New American Standard Bible®,
            Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
            1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
            Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

            Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

              A good translation of you will SURELY die, would be dying you will die.

              Adam was created perfect. He was meant to neither grow old or die. The moment he sinned, he became imperfect, began aging (dying) and he died spiritually (you will die).
              Last edited by TomH; Aug 26th 2010, 01:40 PM. Reason: brain lock
              Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.

              Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                Yes, but they did not drop dead on the day they ate the fruit.

                Romans 5 clearly indicates that the death brought about by Adam was a spiritual death, just as the life brought about by Christ was a spiritual life.

                As to whether Adam and Eve would have lived forever if they had not sinned, that is pure speculation.

                Also, in the absence of physical death the world would have been very overpopulated in less than 1000 years.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                  Where does the new testament say "a day IS 1000 years"?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                    Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                    Where does the new testament say "a day IS 1000 years"?
                    'What is, "No where" for $300, Alex.'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                      Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                      Where does the new testament say "a day IS 1000 years"?
                      1 Suppositions 3:4
                      For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

                      If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

                      Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                        Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                        Yes, but they did not drop dead on the day they ate the fruit.

                        Romans 5 clearly indicates that the death brought about by Adam was a spiritual death, just as the life brought about by Christ was a spiritual life.

                        As to whether Adam and Eve would have lived forever if they had not sinned, that is pure speculation.

                        Also, in the absence of physical death the world would have been very overpopulated in less than 1000 years.
                        They sure did die, just like you are I are born to die... Just because a lightning bolt didn't strike them dead that second doesn't mean it wasn't physical... From that moment, their days were numbered, just like ours.

                        For this is the whole premise of the Gospel... for the wages of sin is death... yet Jesus was born to be crucified to live again... death could not hold Him... Physical death.... And so the resurrection cannot be denied... it is a core tenet of the Christian faith, so my final answer is.... A) Physical death
                        "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                        Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                        ... there are few who find it."


                        -----------------------------------------------

                        * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                        The New American Standard Bible®,
                        Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                        1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                        Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                        Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          Where does the new testament say "a day IS 1000 years"?
                          2 Peter 3:8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

                          I supply this to the question above but not as an answer to the OP... the true quote says IS LIKE.
                          "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                          Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                          ... there are few who find it."


                          -----------------------------------------------

                          * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                          The New American Standard Bible®,
                          Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                          1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                          Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                          Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                            Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
                            They sure did die, just like you are I are born to die... Just because a lightning bolt didn't strike them dead that second doesn't mean it wasn't physical... From that moment, their days were numbered, just like ours.

                            For this is the whole premise of the Gospel... for the wages of sin is death... yet Jesus was born to be crucified to live again... death could not hold Him... Physical death.... And so the resurrection cannot be denied... it is a core tenet of the Christian faith, so my final answer is.... A) Physical death
                            That's a lovely analysis, but it contradicts what Paul teaches in Romans 5.

                            We simply do not know the answer to "was physical death a result of sin." We know that physical death at least for plants occurred prior to the Fall. We do not know if physical death for animals or man was designed before the Fall, or the result of the Fall. Scripture is just silent on this issue, and we are merely speculating on "yes" or "no."

                            We do know, however, as Scripture plainly teaches, that spiritual death is the result of sin.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Spiritual death, or real life death?

                              Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
                              2 Peter 3:8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

                              I supply this to the question above but not as an answer to the OP... the true quote says IS LIKE.
                              Correct. "IS LIKE" is as far away from "IS" as the night is from day.
                              The new testament does not say "a day IS 1000 years". It is a simile and it is highly dependent on context. It is not a secret decoder ring for the rest of the Bible.

                              Comment

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