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Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

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  • BrianW
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    And............................... it's closed. Thanks guy's.

    Don't start another thread on this until Thursday at the earliest. Maybe that will allow things to cool down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rufus
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Gadgeteer View Post
    Do you know what a "lamentation" is? It's an exaggeration. Like Genesis 6:5 --- men's thoughts were only evil continually --- but that didn't prevent ONE, from being righteous and finding FAVOR with God.
    So, I guess only 8 people being saved through the Flood was another "exaggeration"? The righteous in God's eyes could never have evil thoughts continually. But the seed of the Serpent can!

    Huh? This is word-play. He draws everyone without exception. Tell us who in Matt22:2-4, was not invited?
    This is a parable and the parable doesn't teach that God draws all men without exception.

    [qutoe]Before you make charges like "sophistry", document it -- support your charges with facts.

    Jesus does not regenerate, the SPIRIT does. The received Spirit --- Titus3:5-6. And the only connection between "Received-Spirit" and "Jesus-coming", is belief.[/quote]

    Learn what Jn 10:28; 17:2 is teaching!

    Yes He did --- the word is "PROVISION". Jesus is the Savior of the WORLD (provision), malista/specially/above-all believers (fulfillment). 1Tim4:10. He is the propitiation for sins, and not just OURS (fulfillment), but also the WHOLE WORLD (provision). 1Jn2:2. No, He is the Savior of the WORLD! Jn4:42!
    Yes, he is. Of Jews and Gentiles, for there is no partiality with God. Per Paul and Peter, God makes no distinctions between Jews and Gentiles, any longer. Both are brought into the New Covenant. They both comprise the world.

    Rom 2:10-11
    10 but glory and honor and peace to every man who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
    NASB

    Yes it does! Romans2:4-8!!! "Those WHO by perseverance in doing good seek glory honor and immortality, receive eternal life; but those WHO are selfishly ambitious and DO not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, receive wrath." This is a choice God has GRANTED --- "I have set before you life and death --- so CHOOSE LIFE by loving God, by obeying His voice ...and holding fast to Him." Deut30:19-20. You're not arguing with me --- read Acts17:2-31 and THAT is where your argument is.
    God doesn't have to grant choice. Everyone has that power to choose. But evil men do not have the power to choose good, anymore than a good God can choose to do evil.

    Write your own Bible --- 'cause you're not following the real one. Your copy doesn't have 2Tim1:12-14, does it? "Retain the (teaching). GUARD, by the Holy Spirit who indwells us, the treasure (of eternal life) that has been entrusted to you."
    What's the point of discussing things with you, Rufus? These are clear and absolute Scriptures --- and you're just not interested.
    You do a good enough job on this forum of twisting and perverting the scriptures. You don't need me. You're the one-trick pony on this forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gadgeteer
    replied
    Re: COMPATIBILISM

    Originally posted by Rufus View Post
    God stuck his satanic pit bull on Job twice! Does this mean God was "causally involved" in Satan's sins against Job?
    God permitted Job's temptation. Didn't cause it.

    Doesn't your copy still have James1:13?

    :-)



    (PS: I have a problem with your term "God's satanic pit bull" --- God has no part of the devil. God's house is not divided --- Matt12:25-31.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gadgeteer
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Rufus View Post
    I don't see where God is calling anyone in those Acts passages.
    Then you must be trying hard not to; and making "all men" into "not-really-all", and making "not far/difficult" into "very far & hard", etcetera...
    You really do take liberty with God's word, don't you? God being near doesn't = being called. God might have been "near" a whole bunch of people in Asia, but the Holy Spirit wasn't calling or drawing anyone there during a missionary trip of Paul's:

    Acts 16:6-7
    6 And they passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia ; 7 and when they had come to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;
    NASB
    I don't know the answer to that. There must have been a reason; but anecdotes do not set doctrine.

    How do you squeeze this passage into your Arminian philosophy?
    I could speculate --- but let's confine the discussion to non-speculative Scriptural dictate; like you just quoted and brushed away with "I don't see God calling anyone".

    Do you see it in Matthew22:2-14? MANY are called --- everyone, wasn't it?

    Who became the chosen? Did the KING decide, or did the invitees?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rufus
    replied
    Re: COMPATIBILISM

    Originally posted by Gadgeteer View Post
    "Compatiblism" attempts to harmonize the concepts of "man's free will", with "God's sovereign predestination of everything". Per Calvinism, there is no provision for "God permitting anything" --- all has been decreed. This makes God causally involved in sin; either causing it directly (double predestination), or creating the world such that all men WILL sin, and only God's direct sovereign/monergistic intervention can wrest man from his sinful dedication.

    God cannot be causally involved in man's sin at all. The clearest violation this presents is expressed in Matt12:25-31 --- God's house would be divided. To perceive God as having anything to do with sin, even ordaining it, fits Jesus' rebuke, and His calling it "blasphemy".
    God stuck his satanic pit bull on Job twice! Does this mean God was "causally involved" in Satan's sins against Job?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rufus
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Gadgeteer View Post
    All men every last one is called, without exception.
    Acts17:26) having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
    27) that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

    30) "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
    31) because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

    Clear and precise, undeniable. Your choice is to ignore it and pretend "predestination" still exists (and be found fighting against God! Acts5:33!), or to give up "predestined salvation".
    Matt22:2) "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
    3) "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
    4) "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
    5) "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
    6) and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
    7) "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
    8) "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
    9) 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
    10) "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
    11) "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
    12) and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
    13) "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
    14) "For many are called, but few are chosen."


    MANY are called --- how many, according to Jesus? Everyone in view.

    FEW are chosen --- which few, according to Jesus? Those who DECIDED BY THEMSELVES to come.

    One declined because he chose business; another because he chose farming. A third chose to refuse the clean clothes. Many others declined for unspecified reasons, but THEY CHOSE.


    That's it, RogerW --- discard the doctrine, or discard Jesus' words. If you think Jesus gave this little speech all the while secretly ENDORSING "predestined-salvation-God/King-makes-exceptions", let's see how you make it work.
    I don't see where God is calling anyone in those Acts passages. You really do take liberty with God's word, don't you? God being near doesn't = being called. God might have been "near" a whole bunch of people in Asia, but the Holy Spirit wasn't calling or drawing anyone there during a missionary trip of Paul's:

    Acts 16:6-7
    6 And they passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia ; 7 and when they had come to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;
    NASB

    How do you squeeze this passage into your Arminian philosophy?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bandit
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Rufus View Post
    You're batting .500 with this reply, so I suppose a congratulations is in order? Your post answered nothing. You have to show us how those "in the flesh" (all unregenerate people) managed to please God by repenting. You have to show how those in the sphere of "the flesh" moved out of that to occupy the sphere of "the Spirit" because it's only in the sphere of the Spirit that anyone can please God.

    But you are right in that everyone is commanded to repent. My answer to that is: So what? Israel under the Old Covenant was commanded to keep the whole Law perfectly and completely. Did they? People are commanded to stop sinning or to sin no more. Have they? People are commanded to be holy just as God is holy. Has anyone? Yet, at the same time, scripture tells us that there isn't a person alive who doesn't sin. Either God is very confused or you Arminians are with respect to the purpose behind God's commands.
    Actually, Rufus, you show that you don't know the scriptures as well as you think you do. Given that one example will disprove your position, consider what is said in Luke 1:6 concerning the parents of John the Baptist. I submit that you really don't understand what God has commanded (as underlined above). It should be clear from their example, that people could live as He has commanded, even under the Old Covenant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bandit
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Rufus View Post
    No, your objection is absurd! Paul believed salvation is all by God's sovereign grace. That's why He couldn't boast in himself. How soon you forget that Paul experienced God's sovereign election on the road to Damascus. Paul wasn't seeking Christ. Christ sought out Paul and actually saved him!
    And Paul also saved himself by not being disobedient to the heavenly vision. (See Acts 26:19) Salvation requires the participation of the one being saved!

    Leave a comment:


  • BrianW
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Mod note:

    I'm only saying this once so consider it a final warning.

    We want you all to have discussions, debates, deep delving into the word and etc. That is one of the reasons this board exists. Keep it up please.

    But enough with the insults and accusations. I've edited one post already and it's the last one I'll edit. If I see any more of it I'll just delete the post and close this thread. First warning, last warning, only warning.

    Please! Reason together and make sure your words are well salted with love.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gadgeteer
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by RogerW View Post
    While I realize replying to you is as good as blowing in the wind,
    While I'm glad you responded, you begin with an insult.
    and that you will continue to remain blinded to the truth until the Holy Spirit opens your eyes of understanding...
    Which He has done for you --- you are also on the "pedestal" of superior position, the Spirit has led you to a more mature and deeper Scriptural understanding than I have.

    ...unless He hasn't...

    Why don't we let Scripture determine the boundaries, and not get personal? And yes I recognize you believe you have Scriptural boundaries --- but that is why we discourse here, to compare our boundaries with others'; to see if we have mis-set those boundaries. You and I are imperfect, and neither of us can afford to have an "I-HAVE-ARRIVED" pedestal ivory-tower superior cloud-city to look down from on others.

    The men of Athens worship to an unkown god in ignorance of the One True God of whom Paul is making known to them.
    Actually, no --- in their superstition they were afraid of offending some God whom they might not even know about --- therefore their monument to "the unknown God". Paul capitalized on this, saying "I KNOW WHO HE IS!"
    He tells them this is the Creator of the world, The God of heaven and earth, Who does not dwell in temples made with hands, and "Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things." The God of Creation "has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth." IOW He is not The God of any one nation, creed, or religion, but the God over all the earth. All mankind is made of the same blood, as such every man is capable of learning of His character (see Ro 1:19-20).
    That's correct --- but you're not recognizing that the wording in Rom1 is "without excuse" --- that means they can be saved by seeing the Creator in the creation.

    One issue "predestinationists" universally refuse to acknowledge is believe-because-of-seeing. Plainly stated in Jn20:29 (where UNSEEN belief is better than SEEN belief --- does not fit "predestination"!), and in Jn10:38. It is the reason for the rebuke of Matt11:21-24, a rebuke that is nonsense under the perception of "predestined-belief".

    Idolatry, which they are practicing with their many gods, is evil and wickedness, because all men know the existence of the one God through the things He has created. It is possible for all men to find God, to learn of His existence and perfection, so all mankind is without excuse when they willfully suppress the clear knowledge God has given to each of them.
    Wait --- focus on "without excuse". You and I agree they can have knowledge of God --- but can they DO anything WITH that knowledge? If you say "the unelect CANNOT DO anything with the knowledge", then they are not without excuse --- they have the best excuse in the Universe.

    "Without excuse", is the reason those in Matt11:21-24 will be judged more harshly than the ancients, because those who SEE AND REFUSE to believe, make a more blatant choice than the ancients who did not have the luxury of having seen Jesus and His miracles.

    We have to blot that rebuke out if we want to embrace "predestined salvation" --- it cannot sensibly fit.

    This all through natural or physical revelation.
    Which, per Rom2:14-16, means they can enter Heaven, as they're held to their understanding of Jesus!

    But we can't stop the context midstream. For Paul next introduces them to Christ. They were in ignorance about their "unknown god", so after being shown they are deceiving themselves through superstition, because the God they claim is unknown to them has revealed Himself to all of humanity. Now Paul tells them the time has come when The God will no longer wink (overlook) at because the time has come that ALL (every single one of them) men are commanded to repent. This time of judgment has come and is revealed by that man ordained, and given assurance to ALL, not ALL men, but to ALL who believe the resurrection of the dead.
    Does command imply ability?

    If "no", then it's not a command; clearly it does, just as the command to love God clearly asserts God's opinion that all can. Matt22:37. (BTW, I look forward to your thoughts on Matt22:2-14.)
    This is clear when we read that not ALL of them believed, but in fact some of them mocked the resurrection of the dead. Only ALL [both Jew & Gentile alike] have been given assurance of faith by the One Man being resurrected from the dead.

    Ac*17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    Ac*17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    Ac*17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    Ac*17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.
    Ac*17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
    In that passage, how does "ALL COMMANDED TO REPENT", and "PROOF TO ALL MEN", not plainly and clearly indicate they all could believe?

    See how this passage fits with Romans10 --- Acts17:27 "He is not far from each one of us", Rom10:8 "the word is near us", Deut30:11 "the commandment which I command you today is not too difficult nor is it out of reach"; Deut30:14 "the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart that you may observe it".

    Now, for whom is it "near/not-far/not-hard"? The few-predestined-elect? Can't be; because the very next verse (Deut30:15-16) says He sets before us life and death, in that He commands us to LOVE GOD.

    And in the exact same context, "But if your heart TURNS AWAY and you WILL NOT obey, ...you shall perish!"


    To summarize:
    1. God/word-of-faith is not too far, not too difficult, it is near (Acts17:27, Rom10:8, Deut30:11-14)
    2. It is IN your hearts and mouths, that you may observe it
    3. I set before you life and death ...I command you to LOVE GOD and obey Him
    4. BUT if your heart TURNS AWAY and you WILL NOT obey, you will perish!

    Tell us how to break the context, and make it into:

    "Those whom God chooses have the word-of-faith WRITTEN in their hearts, they will (irresistibly) believe. But those who turn away never HAD that word, it was always INFINITELY too far and too hard"

    How do we do that? How do we change Deut30:17-18, butcher-knifing it from context to suddenly speak about someone ELSE? Recognize that Deut30:19-20 re-asserts the "choice" between life and death, which is the choice to love God. Can we make it a SANDWICH of "elect/unelect/elect"? On what grounds can the middle of the sandwich NOT be the same as the ends?



    And that's the point I made first of this post. If we get too "pillared", thinking that we have deeper spiritual revelation and more mature understanding than others, will we think critically and examine our beliefs against Scriptures that others present to us?
    How do our doctrines really hold up to Scripture?


    Unless you can find some credible reason that there are TWO audiences in Acts17:26-31, and in Rom10:6-10, and in Deut30:11-20, it really has to be accepted that ONE audience HAS the word-of-faith --- every one of them. And each can EITHER confess/believe/be-saved, or can turn away and perish.

    Do you have any way to credibly impose "two audiences", and make Deut30:17-18 NOT apply to Rom10:6-10, and Deut30:11-16?

    Leave a comment:


  • RogerW
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Gadgeteer View Post
    All men every last one is called, without exception.[indent][color=blue]Acts17:26) having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
    27) that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
    While I realize replying to you is as good as blowing in the wind, and that you will continue to remain blinded to the truth until the Holy Spirit opens your eyes of understanding...fwiw

    The men of Athens worship to an unkown god in ignorance of the One True God of whom Paul is making known to them. He tells them this is the Creator of the world, The God of heaven and earth, Who does not dwell in temples made with hands, and "Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things." The God of Creation "has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth." IOW He is not The God of any one nation, creed, or religion, but the God over all the earth. All mankind is made of the same blood, as such every man is capable of learning of His character (see Ro 1:19-20).

    Idolatry, which they are practicing with their many gods, is evil and wickedness, because all men know the existence of the one God through the things He has created. It is possible for all men to find God, to learn of His existance and perfection, so all mankind is without excuse when they willfully suppress the clear knowledge God has given to each of them. This all through natural or physical revelation.

    But we can't stop the context midstream. For Paul next introduces them to Christ. They were in ignorance about their "unknown god", so after being shown they are deceiving themselves through superstition, because the God they claim is unknown to them has revealed Himself to all of humanity. Now Paul tells them the time has come when The God will no longer wink (overlook) at because the time has come that ALL (every single one of them) men are commanded to repent. This time of judgment has come and is revealed by that man ordained, and given assurance to ALL, not ALL men, but to ALL who believe the resurrection of the dead. This is clear when we read that not ALL of them believed, but in fact some of them mocked the resurrection of the dead. Only ALL [both Jew & Gentile alike] have been given assurance of faith by the One Man being resurrected from the dead.

    Ac*17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    Ac*17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    Ac*17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    Ac*17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.
    Ac*17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gadgeteer
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by RogerW View Post
    Yes, all without distinction [Jew & Gentile alike] but not all without exception. I'm glad you bracketed [men] because the translators made this passage as clear as mud by adding it.
    All men every last one is called, without exception.
    Acts17:26) having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
    27) that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

    30) "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
    31) because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

    Clear and precise, undeniable. Your choice is to ignore it and pretend "predestination" still exists (and be found fighting against God! Acts5:33!), or to give up "predestined salvation".
    Matt22:2) "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
    3) "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
    4) "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
    5) "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
    6) and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
    7) "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
    8) "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
    9) 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
    10) "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
    11) "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
    12) and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
    13) "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
    14) "For many are called, but few are chosen."


    MANY are called --- how many, according to Jesus? Everyone in view.

    FEW are chosen --- which few, according to Jesus? Those who DECIDED BY THEMSELVES to come.

    One declined because he chose business; another because he chose farming. A third chose to refuse the clean clothes. Many others declined for unspecified reasons, but THEY CHOSE.


    That's it, RogerW --- discard the doctrine, or discard Jesus' words. If you think Jesus gave this little speech all the while secretly ENDORSING "predestined-salvation-God/King-makes-exceptions", let's see how you make it work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gadgeteer
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Rufus View Post
    Yes, it's a Davidic Lamentation which Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is using to indict all mankind. Read v. 9! Jews and Gentiles are all under sin! And Paul then immediately shows WHY they are all under sin! NO EXCEPTIONS!
    Do you know what a "lamentation" is? It's an exaggeration. Like Genesis 6:5 --- men's thoughts were only evil continually --- but that didn't prevent ONE, from being righteous and finding FAVOR with God.

    No one on this planet seeks God unless the Father draws that person. And the Father does not draw everyone without exception, but he does draw everyone without distinction! And there is a difference!
    Huh? This is word-play. He draws everyone without exception. Tell us who in Matt22:2-4, was not invited?

    Your sophistry is unbelievable. Why couldn't he have come to regenerate the elect "sick"?
    Before you make charges like "sophistry", document it -- support your charges with facts.

    Jesus does not regenerate, the SPIRIT does. The received Spirit --- Titus3:5-6. And the only connection between "Received-Spirit" and "Jesus-coming", is belief.

    And Jesus did not come into the world to become a potential savior.
    Yes He did --- the word is "PROVISION". Jesus is the Savior of the WORLD (provision), malista/specially/above-all believers (fulfillment). 1Tim4:10. He is the propitiation for sins, and not just OURS (fulfillment), but also the WHOLE WORLD (provision). 1Jn2:2.
    He came into the world to actually save people -- in fact HIS people!
    No, He is the Savior of the WORLD! Jn4:42!

    But Arminians cannot say this because each man's destiny rests with himself.
    Yes it does! Romans2:4-8!!! "Those WHO by perseverance in doing good seek glory honor and immortality, receive eternal life; but those WHO are selfishly ambitious and DO not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, receive wrath."
    He has the final say on whether he wants salvation or not -- not the Father, not the Son, not the Holy Spirit.
    This is a choice God has GRANTED --- "I have set before you life and death --- so CHOOSE LIFE by loving God, by obeying His voice ...and holding fast to Him." Deut30:19-20.
    Man is sovereign in his own little, insignificant, pathetic universe and God dare not invade his royal space!
    You're not arguing with me --- read Acts17:2-31 and THAT is where your argument is.

    Write your own Bible --- 'cause you're not following the real one.
    In fact, according to Armininism, in heaven where there are many mansions, the vast majority of those might be empty because salvation is not guaranteed to anyone!
    Your copy doesn't have 2Tim1:12-14, does it? "Retain the (teaching). GUARD, by the Holy Spirit who indwells us, the treasure (of eternal life) that has been entrusted to you."
    In fact, Jesus is probably not even there, since he didn't fulfill his Father's will perfectly!
    What's the point of discussing things with you, Rufus? These are clear and absolute Scriptures --- and you're just not interested.

    Why don't you write your own bible, one that does NOT have Rom2:4-8 in it; or 1Tim4:16 or 2Tim1:12-14. Or Deut30:11-20, Rom10:6-10, Acts17:26-31, or any other passage you find "offensive" to Predestined Salvation. Then open your own message board, "Rufus-bible-forums".


    The rewrite will be easy, Rufus --- by the time you take out all the passages plainly asserting personal choice and responsibility of diligence to abide in Jesus and in salvation, you can probably print it all on a postage stamp.

    :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • RogerW
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Jesus is the One Who said: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto Me." John 12:32
    Yes, all without distinction [Jew & Gentile alike] but not all without exception. I'm glad you bracketed [men] because the translators made this passage as clear as mud by adding it.

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  • Rufus
    replied
    Re: Can Calvinism and Arminianism be reconciled?

    Originally posted by Bandit View Post
    Hello Rufus,

    My post already answered your question. A person becomes saved as a result of repenting, so repenting is something the unsaved must do.
    You're batting .500 with this reply, so I suppose a congratulations is in order? Your post answered nothing. You have to show us how those "in the flesh" (all unregenerate people) managed to please God by repenting. You have to show how those in the sphere of "the flesh" moved out of that to occupy the sphere of "the Spirit" because it's only in the sphere of the Spirit that anyone can please God.

    But you are right in that everyone is commanded to repent. My answer to that is: So what? Israel under the Old Covenant was commanded to keep the whole Law perfectly and completely. Did they? People are commanded to stop sinning or to sin no more. Have they? People are commanded to be holy just as God is holy. Has anyone? Yet, at the same time, scripture tells us that there isn't a person alive who doesn't sin. Either God is very confused or you Arminians are with respect to the purpose behind God's commands.

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