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  • Information The Prophetic- An FYI

    This thread serves as a follow up to another thread in the forum which deals with "prophesy". In that thread, the main thrust was whether prophesy is the ability to read into future events. However here I would like to discuss more the "Prophetic" or the role of a prophet in scriptural context of the local church. The following is an exert from a lesson I taught at a leaders seminar on the Five-Fold Ministry in the church.

    The chief role of the prophet is NOT to prophesy. It is to teach everyone how to hear the voice of God for themselves. "My sheep know my voice," Jesus said in John 10. We want everyone to be trained effectively in hearing the voice of the Lord and in distinguishing between that, their own opinions and the disrupting influence of the enemy.

    The setting of protocol as a framework for moving in revelatory prophesy in the church is extremely vital. There is a huge difference between the simple inspirational prophesy that exhorts, edifies, and comforts as written in 1 Cor 14:1-5, and the more revelatory words that can carry overtones of new direction, correction, warnings, or judgement. The former can be given a fairly free hand because it is highly unlikely anyone will be damaged or upset by inspirational prophesy. At its heart is a desire to bless, encourage, support, and build up the people around us. The worst that may happen is that we get a blessing in an area of our lives that does not exactly need one!

    The latter, however, may be incredibly damaging and hurtful is we do not set appropriate guidelines. Revelatory prophesy may lead us across governmental boundaries in church life that are inappropriate and unscriptural. Whatever we hear from the Lord that is of a revelatory nature must be shared with the leadership first. There is a governmental principle at stake. The operation of certain spiritual gifts often require s defined cooperation and relationship with the leadership of the work. Prophets promote such partnerships. They also help to create a framework for ongoing development of prophetic people. We want leaders willing and able to pastor the prophetic, not merely police the ministry.

    Ongoing training in the gift, the ministry, and the office of a prophet can be laid down over a period of many years. I have personally seem that it takes between 10-15 years to make a prophet, depending on his access to a good prophet/teacher who can model him effectively. Without that key person in place, many people will never make it or will take twice the time.

    Finally, a prophet will prophesy and model how the gift should be correctly used. There are too many blessing prophets and not enough of the building type in today's church. Blessing prophets do a good job in on-off or onetime situations by preaching and ministering prophetically to people. They do not, however, leave a deposit in terms of raising up a local team of prophetic people who can be trained and discipled in the gift and ministry. They do it for you rather than teaching you how to do it.
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  • #2
    Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

    Scripture for each please.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

      Originally posted by notuptome View Post
      Scripture for each please.

      For the cause of Christ
      Roger
      LOL Roger. What part are you unclear on?
      Amazzin

      Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

      CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

        Originally posted by amazzin View Post
        LOL Roger. What part are you unclear on?
        The revelatory prophecy part. I understand prophecy that is forth-telling the word of God that the body might be edified and the imperative to "covet to prophecy" vs 39 ch 14 1 Cor. I would like you to clarify the revelatory prophecy part especially the overtones of the new direction, correction, warnings or judgment. Where does this fit with 1 Cor 13:8-10?

        For the cause of Christ
        Roger

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

          Originally posted by amazzin View Post
          This thread serves as a follow up to another thread in the forum which deals with "prophesy". In that thread, the main thrust was whether prophesy is the ability to read into future events. However here I would like to discuss more the "Prophetic" or the role of a prophet in scriptural context of the local church. The following is an exert from a lesson I taught at a leaders seminar on the Five-Fold Ministry in the church.

          The chief role of the prophet is NOT to prophesy. It is to teach everyone how to hear the voice of God for themselves. "My sheep know my voice," Jesus said in John 10. We want everyone to be trained effectively in hearing the voice of the Lord and in distinguishing between that, their own opinions and the disrupting influence of the enemy.

          The setting of protocol as a framework for moving in revelatory prophesy in the church is extremely vital. There is a huge difference between the simple inspirational prophesy that exhorts, edifies, and comforts as written in 1 Cor 14:1-5, and the more revelatory words that can carry overtones of new direction, correction, warnings, or judgement. The former can be given a fairly free hand because it is highly unlikely anyone will be damaged or upset by inspirational prophesy. At its heart is a desire to bless, encourage, support, and build up the people around us. The worst that may happen is that we get a blessing in an area of our lives that does not exactly need one!

          The latter, however, may be incredibly damaging and hurtful is we do not set appropriate guidelines. Revelatory prophesy may lead us across governmental boundaries in church life that are inappropriate and unscriptural. Whatever we hear from the Lord that is of a revelatory nature must be shared with the leadership first. There is a governmental principle at stake. The operation of certain spiritual gifts often require s defined cooperation and relationship with the leadership of the work. Prophets promote such partnerships. They also help to create a framework for ongoing development of prophetic people. We want leaders willing and able to pastor the prophetic, not merely police the ministry.

          Ongoing training in the gift, the ministry, and the office of a prophet can be laid down over a period of many years. I have personally seem that it takes between 10-15 years to make a prophet, depending on his access to a good prophet/teacher who can model him effectively. Without that key person in place, many people will never make it or will take twice the time.

          Finally, a prophet will prophesy and model how the gift should be correctly used. There are too many blessing prophets and not enough of the building type in today's church. Blessing prophets do a good job in on-off or onetime situations by preaching and ministering prophetically to people. They do not, however, leave a deposit in terms of raising up a local team of prophetic people who can be trained and discipled in the gift and ministry. They do it for you rather than teaching you how to do it.
          Well, first of all there is no such thing as a "five-fold ministry"
          Second, The idea that a prophet's role is not prophey is a contradiction.
          Third, "hearing the voice of God" isn't Biblical.
          Fourth, "inspirational prophecy" isn't prophecy, it's teaching.
          Fifth, the idea that revelatory prophecy must be shared with the leadership first isn't Biblical, and in certain cases is diabolical. (of the devil)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

            Originally posted by notuptome View Post
            The revelatory prophecy part. I understand prophecy that is forth-telling the word of God that the body might be edified and the imperative to "covet to prophecy" vs 39 ch 14 1 Cor. I would like you to clarify the revelatory prophecy part especially the overtones of the new direction, correction, warnings or judgment. Where does this fit with 1 Cor 13:8-10?

            For the cause of Christ
            Roger
            All Prophecy is revelation by the Holy Spirit, in one way or another.

            Here is my view on the topic.

            New Testament prophets are quite different from Old Testament prophets, the OT prophets spoke the very words of God. They always started their words with "Thus saith the Lord", from the Highest Authority in the Universe. They were God's spokemen and called messengers of God, disobeying them would mean disobeying God himself.


            They had Divine Authority to write scriptures and whatsoever they said, had God's authority on it, if you disobey, you are disobeying the commandments of God.

            But there was a switch that happen in the NT, just like the fact that in the OT there were few selected priests, in the NT we are all God's priests. In the OT some had the Holy Spirit, in the NT we all have the holy Spirit.

            In the new testament, the divine authority the prophets had in the OT were transfered to the new group of people called "Apostles". Jesus called them apostles not prophets and commissioned them.

            They were the messenger of Christ, they gave commandments of God, and carried his Divine Authority.
            They could write scripture, and whatever they said goes. They even had authority over the prophets of the NT. For example paul told the prophets in Corithians that what he told them were the commandments of the Lord, meaning if they disobeyed. They would be disobeying God. Paul the apostle was telling them how to function not the other way around.

            The apostles were Christ's spokemen, had divine authority to write scripture.
            The NT prophets were no longer special set of people who brought the commandments of God, Joel prophesied of a day when the Spirit is poured out on everyone, sons and daughters would prophesy, see visions and dreams.

            the NT prophets had no more ability to write scripture, nor were their words the very words/commandments of God. They are just words influenced by the Holy Spirit.

            For example. Here are a group of regular disciples, giving paul a wrong(inaccurate) prophecy.
            Notice it says disciples not prophets. Basically they added their own interpretation to whatever they received from the Holy Spirit.

            Acts 21:3-5"And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."

            It was God's will for Paul to go to jerusalem, yet these disciples are giving paul a prophecy by the Spirit telling him not to go. So these disciples were off and Paul knew that, he weighed the prophecy took the good and tossed out the bad.

            But for Paul to ignore this prophecy, means that prophecy is not the very words of God, but words of men influenced by the inspiration/insight of the Holy Spirit.

            This is why when discussing in 1cor 14, Paul tells the prophets that if a prophet is speaking and a thing is revealed to another. Let the one speaking STOP and hold his peace. Wait, if it was the very words of God, wouldn't it rather be heard and not ignored?

            But in the OT we see a difference.

            Deuteronomy 18:18
            I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

            Prophets today are not here to replace our communication with God, but to confirm it.
            We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

              Originally posted by BroRog View Post
              Well, first of all there is no such thing as a "five-fold ministry"
              Second, The idea that a prophet's role is not prophey is a contradiction.
              Third, "hearing the voice of God" isn't Biblical.
              Fourth, "inspirational prophecy" isn't prophecy, it's teaching.
              Fifth, the idea that revelatory prophecy must be shared with the leadership first isn't Biblical, and in certain cases is diabolical. (of the devil)
              Did Paul not pray in Ephesians 1:15-23 for the Ephesian believers that they would become filled with a Spirit of revelation. He taught that believers could receive personal revelations: "How is it then, brethren? when you come together, every one of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" (! Cor 14:26...emphasis is mine)

              Paul instructed the believers that some can indeed speak by revelation "Now brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine" (1 Cor 14:6)
              Amazzin

              Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

              CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



              Comment


              • #8
                My understanding of this type of prophesy isn't about foretelling the future...that you explained but knowing things about people or situations that a person couldn't possibly know except through the Holy Spirit..is this correct?

                God bless
                "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                  Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                  My understanding of this type of prophesy isn't about foretelling the future...that you explained but knowing things about people or situations that a person couldn't possibly know except through the Holy Spirit..is this correct?

                  God bless
                  Yes, that is part of the gift of prophesy but not the only aspect of the gift
                  Amazzin

                  Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                  CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                    A few things here. Maybe you can help me understand. I'm not too up to date on modern day prophets.

                    1. I didn't know we had to be taught to 'hear the voice of God'. I have never received such teaching. Maybe you, or someone with knowledge of it, could elaborate on that.

                    2. I didn't realize God was giving out new revelation and new direction. Is the Scripture not sufficient?

                    3. "God told me", "The Lord spoke to me", ect. is dangerous. I don't think God would be too happy to have people saying He said 'this or that' when He really didn't say anything. You were held accountable with your life in OT days.
                    If one of your prophets says "Thus sayeth the Lord" and it doesn't come to pass, even if it's one tiny little thing, do you brand them a false prophet like the Bible says to do? Or does that not disqualify them from speaking for God.

                    4. Do you put modern day prophets in the same league as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, ect.

                    5. How exactly do you receive a prophecy. Audible voice, inaudible voice, phrases just entering your mind, visions?

                    6. If its a true word from God, it shouldn't matter if it's damaging, hurtful, ect. Who decides if it's from God or not?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                      I am one that does not believe there are NEW revelations. I offer that a true prophet can reveal, explain, teach, expound upon what has already been given to us. They are NOT fortune tellers who can predict future, coming events. But be in the presence of a real prophet and that person always points to Christ Jesus and to scripture! You understand and see what you didn't understand or see previously. And you leave them thinking, "Why hadn't I seen that before?" (Or understood that before.)

                      One thing that makes my caution light turn yellow is the person who chases people down, saying, "I have a word from the Lord for you..." I've seen these self-proclaimed prophets run to people in the parking lot to 'give them a word from the Lord." (In fact, I've named them Parking Lot Prophets! Saw one trying to 'give a word from the Lord' to a lady in the stall in the ladies rest room!)

                      What can we say to those who think they are prophets, with some GREAT, private phone line to God? When they run up and say something like, "I have a word for you from the Lord. Thus sayeth the Lord to you..."

                      One woman, who by the way called herself a 'prophetess', came to my home a long time ago, and asked to speak to one of my sons (Bobby, age 16) IN PRIVATE, down in our basement. She said, "I have a word from the Lord for him...and him alone."

                      I told her, "In our family, we have no secrets. If the good Lord wants my son to receive a message, it will be with him standing right here, in my living room with me." She got all red faced and mad and left. (Must not have been very important...) I already knew she and another woman had left (abandoned) their families --she had 5 children and she went off galavanting about to (of all places) Rest Areas along interstate highways to prophecy' to strangers. Her daughter, age 15 ended up having a baby and had to quit school. Her dad was doing all he could to earn a living and be a dad and mom too.

                      That woman failed miserably in what should have been her most important mission field...her own children!

                      Anyway, can you see why I am extremely cautious when people call themselves a prophet or a prophetess? \
                      Read again what amazzin said in the OP. There's a lot of wisdom there.
                      My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

                      "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                        Originally posted by Diggindeeper View Post
                        I am one that does not believe there are NEW revelations. I offer that a true prophet can reveal, explain, teach, expound upon what has already been given to us. They are NOT fortune tellers who can predict future, coming events. But be in the presence of a real prophet and that person always points to Christ Jesus and to scripture! You understand and see what you didn't understand or see previously. And you leave them thinking, "Why hadn't I seen that before?" (Or understood that before.)
                        That is what a teacher does, not a prophet.


                        Wickipedia: In religion, a prophet is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people. The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy.

                        The dictionary: a person who speaks for god or a deity, or by divine inspiration.
                        a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                          Hey RS
                          I'll try to reply tomorrow sometime. I'm travelling in the morning and don't have much down time
                          Amazzin

                          Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                          CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                            Originally posted by RockSolid View Post
                            That is what a teacher does, not a prophet.


                            Wickipedia: In religion, a prophet is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people. The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy.

                            The dictionary: a person who speaks for god or a deity, or by divine inspiration.
                            a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader.

                            ...an imspired teacher or leader. There you go....

                            They are not considered a 'foreteller'.
                            My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

                            "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Prophetic- An FYI

                              The word "inspired" is bold. The same word as in this Scripture.

                              KJV 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness:
                              ESV 2Tim 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,


                              If they aren't giving prophecies, then they aren't prophets. I thought this was undebateable but apparantly not.

                              Comment

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